Chiefs First-string offensive line still isn’t put together, and it shows against Seahawks - Page 5

**Tribal Warfare** · 08-22-2015, 01:11 PM

Chiefs’ first-string offensive line still isn’t put together, and it shows against Seahawks

Reasonable minds can disagree on this, but for me, the moment of certainty that the Chiefs’ second preseason game would be a giant waste of time for the first-string offense came on their second drive.

Maybe you remember this. Things were looking up, actually. The Chiefs had just picked up a first down on a short pass — did you just snicker? — to Jamaal Charles. Then came trouble.

Paul Fanaika, who — bless his heart — was starting at right tackle against the Seahawks, was pushed straight backward until K.J. Wright released to tackle running back Knile Davis for a 6-yard loss. That was bad enough, but you know, one bad play.

Then came the clincher. The Chiefs called a screen pass, which was a good idea with their line overmatched, and Charles may have been able to make something of it. But Laurent Duvernay-Tardif — and while we’re at it, bless his heart, too — tackled Charles. Yep. He tackled him. He didn’t mean to, we should make this point clear, but that’s what happened. Duvernay-Tardif ran into Charles, and Charles went down.

Impressive play, actually. Charles is very good in space.

Now, obviously, we can have fun here. It’s preseason football. This exists mostly for five reasons: the owners make money, regular players can find rhythm, the owners make money, coaches can fill the bottom of their rosters, and last, but definitely not least: the owners make money.

We’re supposed to include scores when we write about games, so the Chiefs ended up beating the Seahawks 14-13 on Friday at Arrowhead Stadium. If there is any preseason game worth analyzing, it’s the third one, next Friday against the Titans, when the starters will likely play into the second half.

But we are sports fans, which means we don’t need things to actually matter to pay attention to them, so it’s nothing but good, clean, wholesome fun to watch these preseason games and find something to talk about.

Only, here, for the Chiefs, there is nothing.

Not for the first-team offense, anyway.

“We’re missing a few guys,” Chiefs coach Andy Reid understated when asked if he knew who his regular-season offensive line would be. “We have a pretty good idea. We’re missing a couple of guys.”

The defense has earned trust. The offense is another matter. The Chiefs themselves know this. That’s why they signed Jeremy Maclin to play receiver, and why they worked to upgrade the offensive line. If there is an area Chiefs fans would particularly like to see progress in before the season starts, this is it.

It’s just that the line is making that impossible.

This is nobody’s fault, really. It’s not even a real reason to worry, at least not yet. The Chiefs played against one of the NFL’s best pass rushing defenses with the previously mentioned Duvernay-Tardif and Fanaika mismatched with the first team instead of the injured Eric Fisher and Jeff Allen. The results were, let’s be kind here, not great.

“I still have a lot to learn,” Duvernay-Tardif said. “It was good to have reps with the ones. You get to experience the real speed of the game. I made a couple of mistakes. I need to get better.”

That’s two-fifths of the line taken up by guys who won’t play in the regular season unless something goes very wrong, which meant Seahawks star Michael Bennett could practice his sack dance and Chiefs quarterback Alex Smith could practice his prayers. On Saturday, he can practice getting treatment on what will be way more aches than a preseason game should cause.

The starters played until halftime. They’ve now had eight drives: one touchdown, one field goal, two interceptions (one returned for a touchdown), three punts, and one Hail Mary at the end of the half.

That’s less than ideal, obviously, but with the offensive line only vaguely resembling what it will look like once the season starts — Fisher and Allen are both expected to be healthy by then — it’s hard to evaluate.

“It can be tough sometimes,” Donald Stephenson said of not being able to play with the likely regular-season starters. “But that’s O-lineman play. Everything’s tough about what we do. They don’t say our name when we play well. You hear our name when we don’t play well. We’re the guys who tough it out through the good and the bad.”

The offensive line is this team’s biggest concern. Particularly on the interior, they showed a bad habit of getting beat on stunts last year.

Fisher made some nice progress as the season went on, and looked solid in the first preseason game, but he is still a young left tackle who has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Stephenson played sparingly last year. Mitch Morse is a rookie. Ben Grubbs is a proven veteran, but this is his first season with the Chiefs. Jeff Allen missed all but the first game last year.

Maybe the line would struggle even at full strength. Maybe it will struggle once the season starts. But there’s no way to know that now, and what’s worse, it’s affecting how everything else can be viewed. It’d be nice to see a clearer comparison between Davis and Charcandrick West for the No. 2 running back job. It’d be nice to see if Maclin can get downfield. It’d be nice to see if Smith will throw it downfield.

But with an already questionable offensive line weakened by two key injuries, all of that is clouded. The play-calling has to change. Smith’s interception was a rotten throw directly into coverage, so no excuses, but this was not a realistic environment.

Football can be a complicated thing, but there is a very simple truth here: when the offensive line breaks down, everything breaks down.

As long as the Chiefs’ line is less than whole and blocking like this, it’s hard to know much about anything else.

At least, the Chiefs hope this isn’t how it will look when the real games start.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 08-22-2015, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

What a bunch of duplicitous BULLSHIT from our resident trolls.

If guys are great in preseason, it's because it's preseason.

If guys aren't playing or are on the second team, they suck.

BAN THE TROLLS

And **** you both.

You seem nice.

Hammock Parties · 08-22-2015, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

If guys are great in preseason, it's because it's preseason.

Not once have I said this about a single player.

I'm quite pleased with Kelce, Grubbs, Houston, DJ, etc. All look excellent, preseason or not.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 08-22-2015, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stop, Chiefs

Not once have I said this about a single player.

I'm quite pleased with Kelce, Grubbs, Houston, DJ, etc. All look excellent, preseason or not.

Our defense will win some games and drag the dog's ass along with it.

Then people will forget, and "all he does is win" will return.

Ah, the shit-circle of life.

beach tribe · 08-22-2015, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

What a bunch of duplicitous BULLSHIT from our resident trolls.

If guys are great in preseason, it's because it's preseason.

If guys aren't playing or are on the second team, they suck.

BAN THE TROLLS

And **** you both.

Dane, I'm not trying to mess with you, man.
All evidence suggests a complete lack of confidence from a FO that is well aware they need answers up front.

I hope he wins the job makes me look like an idiot and starts for us the next 10 years, but that doesn't make this evidence inadmissible.

beach tribe · 08-22-2015, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Williams

Our defense will win some games and drag the dog's ass along with it.

Then people will forget, and "all he does is win" will return.

Ah, the shit-circle of life.

The only reason Alex doesn't pop my cranium is because the playmakers are going to make em' say "ohh, look how smart he is. He's so cerebral with his check downs, and DON'T FORGET he doesn't turn it over.

I think we stomp some major ass this season. The pieces just fit right.
Alex's short comings can be well hidden when you have speed like this.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 08-22-2015, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

The only reason Alex doesn't pop cranium is because the playmakers are going to make em' say look like "ohh, look how smart he is. He's so cerebral with his check downs, and DON'T FORGET he doesn't turn it over.

I think we stomp some major ass this season. The pieces just fit right.
Alex's short comings can be well hidden, when you have speed like this.

He's regressing before our eyes. There will be no hiding it. The defense will have to carry many days.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 08-22-2015, 10:01 PM

As SNR pointed out, if you're going to hold 2003 O-line as the standard, you might as well just die.

beach tribe · 08-22-2015, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Williams

He's regressing before our eyes. There will be no hiding it. The defense will have to carry many days.

I'll wait and see. lol

"regressing"

Remember "He's been in the league a decade, he's not changing now"
That's 100% true. In either direction.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 08-22-2015, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I'll wait and see. lol

"regressing"

Remember "He's been in the league a decade, he's not changing now"
That's 100% true. In either direction.

False. You will see.

Hell, you should already be seeing it. If you were watching games, anyway.

TEX · 08-22-2015, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Williams

As SNR pointed out, if you're going to hold 2003 O-line as the standard, you might as well just die.

Nobody even suggested that until he did...We were all just saying we would like the line to be solid / decent / good enough. It's not. Its still bottom 1/3 in the league by today's standards. Its bad enough as is to wreck the season. Can it improve to be just "good enough?" Probably so, but what happens during that process? The season can quickly get ugly and be lost. Week 1 is a must win. The Chiefs can recover from 1-2 but not from 0-3 or 0-4, and then Pitt comes calling week 5... In other words the Chiefs cant afford to wait on the OL to get it together...

Sweet Daddy Hate · 08-22-2015, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

Nobody even suggested that until he did...We were all just saying we would like the line to be solid / decent / good enough. It's not. Its still bottom 1/3 in the league by today's standards. Its bad enough as is to wreck the season. Can it improve to be just "good enough?" Probably so, but what happens during that process? The season can quickly get ugly and be lost. Week 1 is a must win. The Chiefs can recover from 1-2 but not from 0-3 or 0-4, and then Pitt comes calling week 5... In other words the Chiefs cant afford to wait on the OL to get it together...

Not "good enough" why and for whom? The statistics are far from in as we don't have enough games or even the full starting crew out there to gather the information.

But I'm more inclined to believe that whether it be eye test or stats, the Chiefs will field a line that the rest of the( STACKED )offense should be able to make hay with with.

Your fears are grounded in the reality of the man behind Center, and they should be.

**RealSNR** · 08-22-2015, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

Busted

I will admit, I have not been able to closely go over the "film".

Seriously, though, ya got me. I was doin' daddy shit when it was on.
Did Kush do anything of note, or was he just auditioning for his back-up C role?
It would be more than awesome to be wrong about the guy.

They spent a 2nd round pick on Morse and want to get him into the future starting center they envision him being as soon as possible.

It's no different than the veteran QB who plays much better than the rookie, but the team nevertheless goes with the rookie.

And besides that, it's not like the Chiefs have come out and said, "Morse is the starter."

I really wouldn't be surprised at all to see Kush all of a sudden get first team reps in practice this week and in the next preseason game.

**RealSNR** · 08-22-2015, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

Nobody even suggested that until he did...We were all just saying we would like the line to be solid / decent / good enough. It's not. Its still bottom 1/3 in the league by today's standards. Its bad enough as is to wreck the season. Can it improve to be just "good enough?" Probably so, but what happens during that process? The season can quickly get ugly and be lost. Week 1 is a must win. The Chiefs can recover from 1-2 but not from 0-3 or 0-4, and then Pitt comes calling week 5... In other words the Chiefs cant afford to wait on the OL to get it together...

Again, your definition of "solid" means something closer to that 2003 line than it does an average NFL offensive line. Your expectations are ridiculous.

We HAD a good group until we had lots of injuries. Right now your expectation is that the offensive line with ****ing Paul Fanaika at RT should have looked good against a top 5 DL in the NFL. The fact that it didn't means it's not "solid" or adequate.

It's not just unreasonable. It's ****ing stupid is what it is.

Hammock Parties · 08-22-2015, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

We HAD a good group until we had lots of injuries.

Do you really think Fisher, Allen, Morse and Fulton are gonna block the Texans?

Really?

I'll be shocked if they give up less than 5 sacks.

**RealSNR** · 08-22-2015, 10:41 PM

Here's a fun little game.

Take an offensive line you consider to be "solid". Then knock out both of their starting OTs, put in their backup 2nd year RG, and replace their starting RT not with their backup swing tackle but instead with their 3rd string OG.

Then have them play a preseason game against the Seahawks' front 7.

Do you think that offensive line is still going to look "solid"?

08-22-2015, 01:11 PM
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $742813	First-string offensive line still isn’t put together, and it shows against Seahawks Chiefs’ first-string offensive line still isn’t put together, and it shows against Seahawks Reasonable minds can disagree on this, but for me, the moment of certainty that the Chiefs’ second preseason game would be a giant waste of time for the first-string offense came on their second drive. Maybe you remember this. Things were looking up, actually. The Chiefs had just picked up a first down on a short pass — did you just snicker? — to Jamaal Charles. Then came trouble. Paul Fanaika, who — bless his heart — was starting at right tackle against the Seahawks, was pushed straight backward until K.J. Wright released to tackle running back Knile Davis for a 6-yard loss. That was bad enough, but you know, one bad play. Then came the clincher. The Chiefs called a screen pass, which was a good idea with their line overmatched, and Charles may have been able to make something of it. But Laurent Duvernay-Tardif — and while we’re at it, bless his heart, too — tackled Charles. Yep. He tackled him. He didn’t mean to, we should make this point clear, but that’s what happened. Duvernay-Tardif ran into Charles, and Charles went down. Impressive play, actually. Charles is very good in space. Now, obviously, we can have fun here. It’s preseason football. This exists mostly for five reasons: the owners make money, regular players can find rhythm, the owners make money, coaches can fill the bottom of their rosters, and last, but definitely not least: the owners make money. We’re supposed to include scores when we write about games, so the Chiefs ended up beating the Seahawks 14-13 on Friday at Arrowhead Stadium. If there is any preseason game worth analyzing, it’s the third one, next Friday against the Titans, when the starters will likely play into the second half. But we are sports fans, which means we don’t need things to actually matter to pay attention to them, so it’s nothing but good, clean, wholesome fun to watch these preseason games and find something to talk about. Only, here, for the Chiefs, there is nothing. Not for the first-team offense, anyway. “We’re missing a few guys,” Chiefs coach Andy Reid understated when asked if he knew who his regular-season offensive line would be. “We have a pretty good idea. We’re missing a couple of guys.” The defense has earned trust. The offense is another matter. The Chiefs themselves know this. That’s why they signed Jeremy Maclin to play receiver, and why they worked to upgrade the offensive line. If there is an area Chiefs fans would particularly like to see progress in before the season starts, this is it. It’s just that the line is making that impossible. This is nobody’s fault, really. It’s not even a real reason to worry, at least not yet. The Chiefs played against one of the NFL’s best pass rushing defenses with the previously mentioned Duvernay-Tardif and Fanaika mismatched with the first team instead of the injured Eric Fisher and Jeff Allen. The results were, let’s be kind here, not great. “I still have a lot to learn,” Duvernay-Tardif said. “It was good to have reps with the ones. You get to experience the real speed of the game. I made a couple of mistakes. I need to get better.” That’s two-fifths of the line taken up by guys who won’t play in the regular season unless something goes very wrong, which meant Seahawks star Michael Bennett could practice his sack dance and Chiefs quarterback Alex Smith could practice his prayers. On Saturday, he can practice getting treatment on what will be way more aches than a preseason game should cause. The starters played until halftime. They’ve now had eight drives: one touchdown, one field goal, two interceptions (one returned for a touchdown), three punts, and one Hail Mary at the end of the half. That’s less than ideal, obviously, but with the offensive line only vaguely resembling what it will look like once the season starts — Fisher and Allen are both expected to be healthy by then — it’s hard to evaluate. “It can be tough sometimes,” Donald Stephenson said of not being able to play with the likely regular-season starters. “But that’s O-lineman play. Everything’s tough about what we do. They don’t say our name when we play well. You hear our name when we don’t play well. We’re the guys who tough it out through the good and the bad.” The offensive line is this team’s biggest concern. Particularly on the interior, they showed a bad habit of getting beat on stunts last year. Fisher made some nice progress as the season went on, and looked solid in the first preseason game, but he is still a young left tackle who has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Stephenson played sparingly last year. Mitch Morse is a rookie. Ben Grubbs is a proven veteran, but this is his first season with the Chiefs. Jeff Allen missed all but the first game last year. Maybe the line would struggle even at full strength. Maybe it will struggle once the season starts. But there’s no way to know that now, and what’s worse, it’s affecting how everything else can be viewed. It’d be nice to see a clearer comparison between Davis and Charcandrick West for the No. 2 running back job. It’d be nice to see if Maclin can get downfield. It’d be nice to see if Smith will throw it downfield. But with an already questionable offensive line weakened by two key injuries, all of that is clouded. The play-calling has to change. Smith’s interception was a rotten throw directly into coverage, so no excuses, but this was not a realistic environment. Football can be a complicated thing, but there is a very simple truth here: when the offensive line breaks down, everything breaks down. As long as the Chiefs’ line is less than whole and blocking like this, it’s hard to know much about anything else. At least, the Chiefs hope this isn’t how it will look when the real games start.
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08-22-2015, 10:01 PM	#67
Sweet Daddy Hate Unsparing Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	As SNR pointed out, if you're going to hold 2003 O-line as the standard, you might as well just die. __________________ 1. Merciless, severe. 2. Given freely and generously. 100% refusal to overrate 20 year Head Coaches with ZERO **ing rings as a Head Coach. CP's Official Professor of 'Dem Blues for 2019/2020!**
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