What's your defensive plan for 2022?

[Chris Meck]

I think we all expect that the trio of Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill will still be a potent group, and that the offense will work itself out to some degree.

There are pieces we need to fit in to be complete, but I think it's also obvious that the defense is the most pressing issue.

so what's your plan?

Can Spags? Who's your hire?

What players are you letting walk, re-sign, what positions are you drafting?

Who do you feel good about rolling with moving forward?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by oldman

The 1st question that needs to be answered is do you keep Spags? He seems to wear out his welcome everywhere he goes about the 3rd year. The 2nd question would be who do you replace him with? If the new DC is a 4-3 guy we're in better shape in our front 7 than with a 3-4 with our existing players. I don't believe there's an existing DC out there that would take a lateral, so now you have to take a chance on an up and comer. I have no clue who that might be. I'll have to go with fire Spags and get a hungry up and comer 4-3 assistant.
The 1st obvious move is to move on from Clark and his overstuffed contract. We still have 1 more year with Hitchens, but taking a $4.2M dead cap hit is probably better than $12.725M to watch him whiff tackles. The next question is Reed. It's not been a banner year for him, so do you extend him at his current $5.5M or let him walk? Walk. Next up, everyone's favorite drama queen, Mr. Mathieu. Real live salary this year, $14.8M. Personally, I think he's worth less than that. Chase a ring, tweet, or whatever somewhere else. If he wants to say, it has to be in the $15-6M range.
Next let's look at CP's favorite whipping boys, Sorenson and Neimann. Sorenson makes a little over $1.2M. Just for money comparison, Wylie makes $2.1M. I'll keep Dirty Dan for $1.2 and cut Wylie to save some cash if we have to. Neimann ($1.55M) or ST ace(?) DOD at $1.1M? How many D snaps has Dorian played this year? If you drop Sorenson and HB, you now have Thornhill and Watts as your starting safeties with few or no viable backups. Moving on from Neimann leaves Gay, Bolton, DOD, and a massive amount of dreck at LB. I'm not saying either should be a starter, but they are depth in areas of need.
I'd keep all our starting CBs and Fenton. The existing 2nd and 3rd stringers can be pretty easily replaced.
Now comes the elephant in the room. Most of us here wanted to keep Jones -- at DT. I don't think there would have been that support for his contract demands at DE. Either he has to move back inside or Veach has to find someone stupid enough to take that $56M cap anchor.
Keeping a 4-3 we'll need 2 DEs, a FS, and another LB at minimum. Going to a 3-4 forces us to get a NT and 2 OLBs plus the FS. That doesn't count depth and turnover. As much as my philosophy has always been more LBs, more better, I think we have to stay with the 4-3 next year. Either way, that's a lot of holes to fill with not a lot of money. Keep in mind we have to have at least 1 new OT. The draft isn't going to fix it all, neither is snapping up mid-tier FAs. Bottom line, Clark, Hitchens, Reed, and Mathieu (barring a team-friendly deal) have to go. Say buh-bye to hangers-on like Wylie, DOD, Kemp, LDT, and DRob. Those salaries give you roughly another $9.75M.

I don't disagree with any of that other than keeping Sorensen.

I lean towards keeping the 4-3 although it's a decent draft for 3-4 DL and OLB. Spags has gotta go. I don't think it's all his fault, but guys have quit on him.

I think a combination of mid-tier FA's and the draft can fix it however. It just has to be the right guys, which you know...is always true, and easier said than done.

The good news is that not re-signing HB and letting Clark, Reed, and Hitchens go does actually net you a pretty good cap savings.

I don't think you necessarily need a FS; I think that's Thornhill's natural role. I think you need a SS and a dimebacker type S/LB hybrid.
We could afford TWO Ogbah level guys, plus a high pick at DE to go with Danna and the Kaindoh project. Then maybe a late camp end-of-career ring chaser such as a Kerrigan type to rotate in and out. All of that together won't cost as much as Clark and Reed.

Reed's done nothing Nnadi doesn't do, and Saunders has looked as good or better than either, so I let both Reed and Nnadi go. Too little production for that money. We can suck for cheaper! A big DT run stuffer with no pass rush ability isn't an expensive thing to find. There are a few in this draft, now that you mention it.

I too like the CB room. Ward is a solid player, but CB's are so expensive I'd probably let him walk as well. Sneed, Fenton, Baker, and Hughes is a still a lot of talent.

Bolton and Gay (if he can stay healthy) are a pretty good young duo, but we could use a steady vet, hopefully one that's more athletic than Hitchens. But again, we don't need stars, we just need solid, dependable, consistent guys.

It's going to be a lot of turnover, but I think hungry mid-tier guys and draft picks can make this a respectable defense. Mainly, it's the front four. It all starts there, and we can't rush the passer without blitzing.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Dunerdr

What all is required to run a Gus Bradley D talent wise? Trying to remember what made that Seattle d click.. Earl Thomas, Kj Wright, Wagner, Sherman and browner and his pile of adderal?

Honestly?

You need Earl Thomas.

Oh, and Richard Sherman in his prime.

Oh, and Bobby Wagner.

[Dunerdr]

Originally Posted by xztop123

What made it work was that it was new at the time.

Defenses are evolving every week (more so every season) because offense gets tape on defenses weaknesses and give versa

Andy Reid wasn’t lying when he said he’s seeing stuff on d that he’s never seen on tape before.

I just meant in general. I'm not convinced we need the next legion of boom, but just competent. If Thornhill could be Earl, Gay could be the KJ role, bolton Wagner and so on. I'd advocate for Gus Bradley. But if it requires a 3 year complete overhaul i'm not so sure.

[RunKC]

I’m really not sure what else Spags can do this year. You look at a mouth breather like Vance Joseph and how god awful he was in Denver, but look how great he looks as a DC in Arizona?

That’s bc the guy has a very talented defense. Spags just doesn’t have that and part of the reason is guys like Clark and Jones not giving a shit and Matheiu not leading.

Doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be fired but that’s the reality of the situation

[Wallcrawler]

First off, Spags isn't going anywhere outside of Clark Hunt going full powerplay on Andy.

Andy sees this guy as a friend that he has gone to back to back superbowls with, winning one in large part to some big plays by the defense late in that game.

Players may be shuffled off, but Steve Spagnuolo is as safe as you can possibly be even while sucking this bad.

Andy's new message of "I'm seeing things I haven't seen before" will likely persist through this dumpster fire of a season, it'll be looked at as a hiccup, everyone capable of so much better, and we will see at least another year of Steve Spagnuolo being completely unprepared to stop a high school game plan.

Badger and Clark gotta go. Ship Jones if at all possible. Replace and rebuild as best we can through the draft and absolutely stop overpaying for these underperforming players.

Purge Hitchens, Sorensen, Nieman, and Reed with AIDSfire and extinguish the remains with antifreeze.

Build around Bolton. That kid has the tools to be a solid cornerstone of the defense.

Focus on pass rush, because without it, Spags scheme is trash.

Give him the best possible chance to do what he can and if he can't cut it, he's gotta hit the road.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I don't disagree with any of that other than keeping Sorensen.

The good news is that not re-signing HB and letting Clark, Reed, and Hitchens go does actually net you a pretty good cap savings.

If I figured this right, letting HB, Clark, Reed, and Hitchens go nets about $75M using Reed and Mathieu's currrent cap hits. A good portion of those savings will go to PMII, Jones, Thuney, and Hill. True enough the cap will rise next year, but by how much.

I kept Dirty Dan for $1.5M or so just because he still has that much value in the right package. There's a few other players (Wylie, DOD, Kemp, etc.) with that give us absolutely nothing. Seriously, I never want to see Wylie on the field again. DOD and Kemp are ST players, period. We can get UDFA's to do that. I question whether LDT will even want to play next year. If he does, he's not going to get what he's making here unless some team is desperate.

[ModSocks]

I'll wait to see what we look like in the SB this year before making any drastic changes.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I'll wait to see what we look like in the SB this year before making any drastic changes.

[Chris Meck]

Right now, we're picking 16th.

I've been having fun with mock draft machines.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I don't disagree with any of that other than keeping Sorensen.

I lean towards keeping the 4-3 although it's a decent draft for 3-4 DL and OLB. Spags has gotta go. I don't think it's all his fault, but guys have quit on him.

I think a combination of mid-tier FA's and the draft can fix it however. It just has to be the right guys, which you know...is always true, and easier said than done.

The good news is that not re-signing HB and letting Clark, Reed, and Hitchens go does actually net you a pretty good cap savings.

I don't think you necessarily need a FS; I think that's Thornhill's natural role. I think you need a SS and a dimebacker type S/LB hybrid.
We could afford TWO Ogbah level guys, plus a high pick at DE to go with Danna and the Kaindoh project. Then maybe a late camp end-of-career ring chaser such as a Kerrigan type to rotate in and out. All of that together won't cost as much as Clark and Reed.

Reed's done nothing Nnadi doesn't do, and Saunders has looked as good or better than either, so I let both Reed and Nnadi go. Too little production for that money. We can suck for cheaper! A big DT run stuffer with no pass rush ability isn't an expensive thing to find. There are a few in this draft, now that you mention it.

I too like the CB room. Ward is a solid player, but CB's are so expensive I'd probably let him walk as well. Sneed, Fenton, Baker, and Hughes is a still a lot of talent.

Bolton and Gay (if he can stay healthy) are a pretty good young duo, but we could use a steady vet, hopefully one that's more athletic than Hitchens. But again, we don't need stars, we just need solid, dependable, consistent guys.

It's going to be a lot of turnover, but I think hungry mid-tier guys and draft picks can make this a respectable defense. Mainly, it's the front four. It all starts there, and we can't rush the passer without blitzing.

I agree with both of you besides the faith in the CBs. I know a pass rush helps, but we really don't have a top level corner and we desperately need one. I like Fenton, possibly Sneed, the rest to me are fine for depth aside from Ward who won't be worth the price. There is really noone you can feel comfortable in locking down a top receiver.

[DrunkBassGuitar]

I will get defensive about everything, all the time.

**** you get off my case

[ROYC75]

Some people on here need to pull their head out of their ass and listen to themselves.

What I find amazing is we are fans and there are professionals who are paid to be coaches.Yet we as fans somehow know more than the professional coaches do. We as fans know more than the players know and yet we're the ones sitting on our asses in the seats watching instead of out there being paid to play. Just think about that for a second! Now y'all want to tell me where the problem is?

Yes, some coaches are not on par to be DC'S/OC'S on a team. It doesn't matter how good the game plan is, how simple, or even complex. If talent is lacking in athleticism or in brain cells, no coach is capable to over come the dismal results! No coach, no matter if he dummies it down for his own team. Do you somehow think it would catch the opposing teams offense/ OC asleep, off guard and not able to adjust?

There are a select few here that truly believe they are smarter than our current coaches.I laugh at your 1! If repairing the D was so simple, these well paid professional coaches would be doing it.

People hated Sutton, facts are Sutton had some very good defensive teams. Gunther, of whom some on here thought the world of was no better than the defensive talent he had to carry his reputation. Spags is no different, he does run a more comple scheme of switching up coverages. He's put the right kids with talent & brain cells in place before and has had some very good defensive teams to show for it. If there is/are players doing there own free lancing, not staying in the proper read & react coverage, the defense as a whole is going to suffer.

Bottom line is this, there are multiple reasons why we are as bad as we are on defense. It's not as simple as plugging 1 guy into the defensive lineup, as it seemed like with Mike Penel.

Reed was supposed to be our Penel, on paper, it appeared every bit of that and more. It was Reed that was supposed to help motivate Clark. It was Reed that was to allow Jones the freedom to move out to DE It's not the fact that 1 of these guys hasn't worked out, it's a cold hard fact that all 3 have had a miserable start to the season.

As equally as the front 4 has been
bad, so have the back 7. Injuries and a lack of continuity, creating a lack of communicating through read & react is allowing opposing teams to score so easily. The frustrating part is we have basically the same defensive backfield the last 2 seasons! This is not coaching, coaches don't forget what works! This is on the players under performing due to lack of focus and preparations on their part! Are they lacking the attitude, the desire to produce, now that is up to the coaches to figure out.

Not us, the casual fan!

[TribalElder]

Defense needs a large prescription for biktarvy

[kccrow]

I usually model this as things become more known with mocks in the draft area but here goes...

Offseason Moves:

Coaching:
Ideally, fire Steve Spagnuolo and hire University of Wisconsin D-Coord Jim Leonard and let him bring in his own position coaches.

Current Player Transactions
Release: LB Anthony Hitchens, ER Frank Clark
Trade DT Chris Jones before the 3rd day of the league year (when his roster bonus guarantees) for likely day 2 pick (calling it a 3rd for now).
UFAs to Let Walk: SS Tyrann Mathieu, DT Jarran Reed, SS Daniel Sorensen, LB Ben Niemann, ER Alex Okafor, SS Aramani Watts. CB Mike Hughes
ERFA Tender: CB Deandre Baker, CB Chris Lammons
Re-sign to Minimum deals: LB Dorian O'Daniel (1 yr. Yeah he's not much except STs, could be cut later)
Re-sign to Low/Mid-Tier deals: CB Charvarious Ward, DT Derrick Nnadi
Other Cap saving assumptions: WR Tyreek Hill will be extended with Roster bonus converted to signing, QB Patrick Mahomes Roster bonus converted to signing

Free Agent Target Acquisitions
LB Nicholas Morrow (LV, 27) - Should be a mid-tier contract for a good coverage LB on a 1-2 yr deal
DE Derrick Barnett (PHI, 26) - Should be a mid-tier contract for a decent young end can at minimum function as a rotational pass rusher 2-3 yr deal
DE Emmanuel Ogbah (MIA, 29) - Should be a mid-tier contract for a solid pass rusher on a 2 yr deal
FS M.J. Stewart (CLE, 27) - Should be a low-tier contract for a solid nickel/reserve safety on a 1 yr deal
FS Marcus Williams (NO, 26) - Likely elite-tier contract for an All-Pro caliber playmaker on the back end on a 4-5 yr deal
DT Bilal Nichols (CHI, 26) - Should be a mid-tier contract for a solid tackle with pass rush and run stopping ability


Draft:
I hate to "lock-in" on any one position in any round, but I think the Chiefs have to take a DE or LT with their first-round pick. Best at whichever position is left on the table. If they don't go DE in 1 though, things get dicey and the defense is a top priority. They could live with Brown another year on a tag at LT and draft a developmental guy or wait until next year.

So, going with adding a 3rd for trading Jones...

1. DE Jermaine Johnson, Florida State
2. LB Brandon Smith, Penn State
3. WR Romeo Doubs, Nevada
3. CB Coby Bryant, Cincinnati
4. DT Jayden Peevy, Texas A&M
6. SS Smoke Monday, Auburn
7. WR Corey Sutton, Appalachian State
7. RB Greg Bell, San Diego State
7. DE Dante Stills, West Virginia

My defensive roster:

DE: J. Johnson (R1), E. Ogbah (FA), D. Barnett (FA) M. Danna, J. Kaindoh, D. Stills (R7)
DT: B. Nichols (FA), D. Nnadi, K. Saunders, J. Peevy (R4), T. Wharton
LB: W. Gay, N. Bolton, B. Smith (R2), N. Morrow (FA), D. O'Daniel
CB: C. Ward, R. Fenton, L. Sneed (NB), C. Bryant (R3), D. Baker, C. Lammons
SS: J. Thornhill, S. Monday (R6)
FS: M. Williams, M. Stewart

Some notes:
I'm high on building a 4-deep rotation of DEs like I have modeled here. They don't all need to be stars but if you get the right rotation you can keep bring pressure all day long, which is alot of what Tampa does.

I think Thornhill has great downhill attack speed and is a really solid tackler. I like him playing SS where that skill set can be taken advantage of. Put a ballhawk like Williams behind him and I think you have a good group.

Meanwhile, Sneed takes over as that jack-of-all-trades guy in a Mathieu-type role where he can play the slot, blitz, and roam middle of the field. I think drafting a guy that can play in coverage at LB and picking one up in FA lets you put 3 athletic LBs on the field situationally when you want Bolton out (passing downs, primarily).

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Same thing we did after 2018. Scrap it all and start over. Complete overhaul. Get young. Get fast.

Keep Fenton, Sneed, Gay, Bolton, Danna, Thornhill. Bulk Jones back up and move him back inside where he belongs. Everyone else can GTFO!