Who's got the best overall team? MU or KU or OU? - Page 4

KChiefs1 · 11-12-2007, 12:05 PM

If you just base it on conference only statistics then you have to say MU...the round robin tournament starting on the 24th will be interesting to watch.

11/24/07 KU vs MU at Arrowhead
12/01/07 OU vs winner of KU/MU at the AlamoDome

http://www.big12sports.com/sports/m-.../confonly.html

SCORING OFFENSE G TD XP 2XP DXP FG Saf Pts Avg
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. Missouri.................. 5 26 25 1 0 9 0 210 42.0
2. Kansas.................... 5 26 22 0 0 8 0 202 40.4
3. Oklahoma State.......... 5 25 25 0 0 6 0 193 38.6
4. Kansas State............. 6 26 25 1 0 13 0 222 37.0
5. Texas Tech............... 6 26 25 0 0 5 0 196 32.7
6. Texas....................... 6 26 24 0 0 5 0 195 32.5
7. Oklahoma................ 5 21 17 0 0 3 0 152 30.4
8. Colorado................... 6 16 16 0 0 11 0 145 24.2
9. Nebraska.................. 6 17 15 2 0 4 0 133 22.2
10.Texas A&M................ 6 16 13 1 0 5 0 126 21.0
11.Iowa State............... 6 13 13 0 0 4 0 103 17.2
12.Baylor..................... 6 9 7 0 0 4 0 73 12.2

SCORING DEFENSE G TD XP 2XP DXP FG Saf Pts Avg
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. Missouri.................. 5 12 8 0 0 5 0 95 19.0
2. Kansas................... 5 12 10 2 0 4 0 98 19.6
3. Oklahoma............... 5 13 13 0 0 3 0 100 20.0
4. Texas..................... 6 18 17 1 0 5 0 142 23.7
5. Texas A&M.............. 6 18 17 0 0 6 0 143 23.8
6. Texas Tech.............. 6 20 20 0 0 4 0 152 25.3
7. Kansas State............ 6 20 18 0 0 6 0 156 26.0
8. Oklahoma State......... 5 21 20 1 0 4 0 160 32.0
9. Colorado................... 6 23 20 0 0 12 0 194 32.3
10.Iowa State............... 6 28 27 1 0 5 0 212 35.3
11.Nebraska.................. 6 32 27 0 0 8 0 243 40.5
12.Baylor..................... 6 30 30 0 0 15 0 255 42.5

KChiefs1 · 11-12-2007, 06:56 PM

MU vs KU statistical comparison of common opponents(TAMU, NU & CU)

Points scored:
MU 136(45.3), KU 114(38) - ADV MU
Points given up:
MU 42(14), KU 64(21.3) - ADV MU
Total Offense:
MU 1759(586.3), KU 1312(437.3) - ADV MU
Total Defense:
MU 873(291), KU 1155(385) - ADV MU
Pass Offense:
MU 1192(397.3), KU 687(219) - ADV MU
Rush Offense:
MU 570(190), KU 625(208.3) - ADV KU
Pass Defense:
MU 582(194), KU 936(312) - ADV MU
Rush Defense:
MU 306(102), KU 219(73) - ADV KU
1st Downs:
MU 89(29.7), KU 75(25) - ADV MU
Opp 1st Downs:
MU 44(14.7), KU 57(19) - ADV MU

MU wins every category but two(rush offense & rush defense).

Spott · 11-12-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bump

boy if we win at Arrowhead this place is going to melt down.

More like if you lose at Arrowhead this place will melt down. This place is going to be intolerable for half this board come Nov. 25th, no matter who wins.

|Zach| · 11-12-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROYC75

I can't reply, ask Zach, OK.

See the time that saves? Good work.

|Zach| · 11-12-2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spott

More like if you lose at Arrowhead this place will melt down. This place is going to be intolerable for half this board come Nov. 25th, no matter who wins.

I went to Big 12 (or whatever they are calling it now) after the Mizzou game in Columbia having beers with friends and I overheard one guy talking to his friend from across the bar.

"November 24th is either going to be the best or worst day of my life. It won't be anything in between."

Haha, its been quite a build up.

barry_smilez20 · 11-12-2007, 07:42 PM

the manginos

KChiefs1 · 11-12-2007, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Zach|

"November 24th is either going to be the best or worst day of my life. It won't be anything in between."

No truer words have been spoken

barry_smilez20 · 11-12-2007, 10:00 PM

OU will dominate the manginos unfortunately

**Skip Towne** · 11-12-2007, 10:08 PM

Too close to call. Three very good teams.

BWillie · 11-12-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

Too close to call. Three very good teams.

Probably, but I don't understand why everybody uses the argument that just because OU beat Missouri that means they are a better team. Home field advantage is huge, and if that game would of been played at Missouri the Tigers would of won. I think Missouri is better than Oklahoma, and I think Oklahoma is the third best team in the big 12. If Oklahoma didn't have a big name, and you watched their games you wouldn't think they were better than Missouri or Kansas.

KCFalcon59 · 11-12-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1

MU vs KU statistical comparison of common opponents(TAMU, NU & CU)

Points scored:
MU 136(45.3), KU 114(38) - ADV MU
Points given up:
MU 42(14), KU 64(21.3) - ADV MU
Total Offense:
MU 1759(586.3), KU 1312(437.3) - ADV MU
Total Defense:
MU 873(291), KU 1155(385) - ADV MU
Pass Offense:
MU 1192(397.3), KU 687(219) - ADV MU
Rush Offense:
MU 570(190), KU 625(208.3) - ADV KU
Pass Defense:
MU 582(194), KU 936(312) - ADV MU
Rush Defense:
MU 306(102), KU 219(73) - ADV KU
1st Downs:
MU 89(29.7), KU 75(25) - ADV MU
Opp 1st Downs:
MU 44(14.7), KU 57(19) - ADV MU

MU wins every category but two(rush offense & rush defense).

Which tells me that KU dominates the lines of scrimmage. That can really take over games. Mizzou is better than anyone KU has faced, but if KU's lines start dominating I think they will pull out the win. Mizzou is incredible though. Going to be a great game.

Chiefs_Mike_Topeka · 11-13-2007, 12:10 AM

Everyone is comparing KU/MU in terms of offense and defense, which when you look at the stats are virtually indentical in regards to total team performance. Both teams have good offenses, with the edge to MU, both have good defenses with the edge to KU.

To me the swing in this game is going to be special teams and KU has far superior special teams play with exception of punt returns.

They lead the Big 12 in kickoff returns, Hereford is averaging almost 32 yards a return. Maclin for all the hype he receives about being a great returner is almost 9 yards per return worse, that equates to an extra first down every possesion. Webb also has 23 touchbacks, Wolfert has 4. KU allows 21.5 per kickoff return; MU allows 21.7, but Wolfert's kick are almost 7 yards shorter per kick. KU 66.6 per kickoff; 45.1 yards net, to MU 61 per kickoff; 39.3 yards net. KU will have alot better field postion to start drives; using these numbers KU should be looking at starting drives near the 40+, while MU will be pushed back to the 30.

KU's defense is strong enough that even with MU's offense they can't go 70 yards every possesion. This will equalize whatever advantage MU will have on the offensive side.

Punting should be a wash, neither team has great punting stats and actually are 10 and 11 in the conference. They average about 38 yards per punt. MU has the edge in punt returns however, 12.3 to 7.6 per return. KU covers punts slightly better allowing about a yard less per punt return.

Turnovers will be another huge point, KU has a distinct advantage here, with a +20 turnover margin to MU's +7.

It will be a great game, I see KU winning a 38-28 type of game.

*These stats do not reflect the games last Sat., the Big 12 site has not updated yet.

beer bacon · 11-13-2007, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie007

Probably, but I don't understand why everybody uses the argument that just because OU beat Missouri that means they are a better team. Home field advantage is huge, and if that game would of been played at Missouri the Tigers would of won. I think Missouri is better than Oklahoma, and I think Oklahoma is the third best team in the big 12. If Oklahoma didn't have a big name, and you watched their games you wouldn't think they were better than Missouri or Kansas.

I don't want to say OU is the worst of the three, but they are the worst of the three on the road.

beer bacon · 11-13-2007, 03:21 AM

How can anyone say that KU's defense has the edge over Missouri? The only way that argument can be made is by leaning heavily on OOC stats. When you consider just Big 12 play, as has been pointed out already in this thread, MU has outperformed KU in every category but run defense, and there isn't that much of a difference there.

Also, I must chuckle at anyone that says their defense can stop our offense from going 70 yards consistently. The only thing that has really slowed down our offense this season are things like drops or turnovers, and that has never lasted for more then a quarter or so.

Against Colorado Mizzou had a half dozen drops, a tipped INT on our own eleven, and a blocked punt in our own territory all in the first quarter. After going down down 10-7 in the first quarter, Mizzou got out of first gear and held CU to three first downs and scored 48 points in the last three quarters.

**007** · 11-13-2007, 03:21 AM

Who cares. Enjoy the ride. If your team loses, it was still a hell of a season for each.

|Zach| · 11-13-2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs_Mike_Topeka

KU's defense is strong enough that even with MU's offense they can't go 70 yards every possesion. This will equalize whatever advantage MU will have on the offensive side.

Wait, so...

If KU can stop MU from going 70 yards on every possession the advantage MU has on offense would be neutralized? WTF?

11-12-2007, 12:05 PM
KChiefs1 I’m a Mahomo! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mid-Missouri Casino cash: $6771021	Who's got the best overall team? MU or KU or OU? If you just base it on conference only statistics then you have to say MU...the round robin tournament starting on the 24th will be interesting to watch. 11/24/07 KU vs MU at Arrowhead 12/01/07 OU vs winner of KU/MU at the AlamoDome http://www.big12sports.com/sports/m-.../confonly.html SCORING OFFENSE G TD XP 2XP DXP FG Saf Pts Avg -------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Missouri.................. 5 26 25 1 0 9 0 210 42.0 2. Kansas.................... 5 26 22 0 0 8 0 202 40.4 3. Oklahoma State.......... 5 25 25 0 0 6 0 193 38.6 4. Kansas State............. 6 26 25 1 0 13 0 222 37.0 5. Texas Tech............... 6 26 25 0 0 5 0 196 32.7 6. Texas....................... 6 26 24 0 0 5 0 195 32.5 7. Oklahoma................ 5 21 17 0 0 3 0 152 30.4 8. Colorado................... 6 16 16 0 0 11 0 145 24.2 9. Nebraska.................. 6 17 15 2 0 4 0 133 22.2 10.Texas A&M................ 6 16 13 1 0 5 0 126 21.0 11.Iowa State............... 6 13 13 0 0 4 0 103 17.2 12.Baylor..................... 6 9 7 0 0 4 0 73 12.2 SCORING DEFENSE G TD XP 2XP DXP FG Saf Pts Avg -------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Missouri.................. 5 12 8 0 0 5 0 95 19.0 2. Kansas................... 5 12 10 2 0 4 0 98 19.6 3. Oklahoma............... 5 13 13 0 0 3 0 100 20.0 4. Texas..................... 6 18 17 1 0 5 0 142 23.7 5. Texas A&M.............. 6 18 17 0 0 6 0 143 23.8 6. Texas Tech.............. 6 20 20 0 0 4 0 152 25.3 7. Kansas State............ 6 20 18 0 0 6 0 156 26.0 8. Oklahoma State......... 5 21 20 1 0 4 0 160 32.0 9. Colorado................... 6 23 20 0 0 12 0 194 32.3 10.Iowa State............... 6 28 27 1 0 5 0 212 35.3 11.Nebraska.................. 6 32 27 0 0 8 0 243 40.5 12.Baylor..................... 6 30 30 0 0 15 0 255 42.5
Posts: 54,038

11-12-2007, 06:56 PM	#46
KChiefs1 I’m a Mahomo! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mid-Missouri Casino cash: $6771021	MU vs KU statistical comparison of common opponents(TAMU, NU & CU) Points scored: MU 136(45.3), KU 114(38) - ADV MU Points given up: MU 42(14), KU 64(21.3) - ADV MU Total Offense: MU 1759(586.3), KU 1312(437.3) - ADV MU Total Defense: MU 873(291), KU 1155(385) - ADV MU Pass Offense: MU 1192(397.3), KU 687(219) - ADV MU Rush Offense: MU 570(190), KU 625(208.3) - ADV KU Pass Defense: MU 582(194), KU 936(312) - ADV MU Rush Defense: MU 306(102), KU 219(73) - ADV KU 1st Downs: MU 89(29.7), KU 75(25) - ADV MU Opp 1st Downs: MU 44(14.7), KU 57(19) - ADV MU MU wins every category but two(rush offense & rush defense). __________________
Posts: 54,038

11-12-2007, 07:42 PM	#50
barry_smilez20 lions=domination Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: san marcos,texas Casino cash: $10004900	the manginos
Posts: 823

11-12-2007, 10:00 PM	#52
barry_smilez20 lions=domination Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: san marcos,texas Casino cash: $10004900	OU will dominate the manginos unfortunately
Posts: 823

11-12-2007, 10:08 PM	#53
Skip Towne Supporter Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: T-Town Casino cash: $10004900	Too close to call. Three very good teams.
Posts: 69,689

11-13-2007, 12:10 AM	#56
Chiefs_Mike_Topeka Rest in Peace Zachary Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Topeka Casino cash: $10005025	Everyone is comparing KU/MU in terms of offense and defense, which when you look at the stats are virtually indentical in regards to total team performance. Both teams have good offenses, with the edge to MU, both have good defenses with the edge to KU. To me the swing in this game is going to be special teams and KU has far superior special teams play with exception of punt returns. They lead the Big 12 in kickoff returns, Hereford is averaging almost 32 yards a return. Maclin for all the hype he receives about being a great returner is almost 9 yards per return worse, that equates to an extra first down every possesion. Webb also has 23 touchbacks, Wolfert has 4. KU allows 21.5 per kickoff return; MU allows 21.7, but Wolfert's kick are almost 7 yards shorter per kick. KU 66.6 per kickoff; 45.1 yards net, to MU 61 per kickoff; 39.3 yards net. KU will have alot better field postion to start drives; using these numbers KU should be looking at starting drives near the 40+, while MU will be pushed back to the 30. KU's defense is strong enough that even with MU's offense they can't go 70 yards every possesion. This will equalize whatever advantage MU will have on the offensive side. Punting should be a wash, neither team has great punting stats and actually are 10 and 11 in the conference. They average about 38 yards per punt. MU has the edge in punt returns however, 12.3 to 7.6 per return. KU covers punts slightly better allowing about a yard less per punt return. Turnovers will be another huge point, KU has a distinct advantage here, with a +20 turnover margin to MU's +7. It will be a great game, I see KU winning a 38-28 type of game. *These stats do not reflect the games last Sat., the Big 12 site has not updated yet. __________________ Zachary, my little man; I miss you and I Love You.
Posts: 1,970

11-13-2007, 03:21 AM	#58
beer bacon WHAT Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Casino cash: $10019545	How can anyone say that KU's defense has the edge over Missouri? The only way that argument can be made is by leaning heavily on OOC stats. When you consider just Big 12 play, as has been pointed out already in this thread, MU has outperformed KU in every category but run defense, and there isn't that much of a difference there. Also, I must chuckle at anyone that says their defense can stop our offense from going 70 yards consistently. The only thing that has really slowed down our offense this season are things like drops or turnovers, and that has never lasted for more then a quarter or so. Against Colorado Mizzou had a half dozen drops, a tipped INT on our own eleven, and a blocked punt in our own territory all in the first quarter. After going down down 10-7 in the first quarter, Mizzou got out of first gear and held CU to three first downs and scored 48 points in the last three quarters.
Posts: 9,301

11-13-2007, 03:21 AM	#59
007 Shaken. Not stirred. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London Casino cash: $14040126 VARSITY	Who cares. Enjoy the ride. If your team loses, it was still a hell of a season for each. __________________ My dear girl, there are some things that just aren’t done. Such as, drinking Dom Perignon ’53 above the temperature of 38 degrees Fahrenheit. That’s just as bad as listening to the Beatles without earmuffs.
Posts: 65,555