Who's got the best overall team? MU or KU or OU?

[KChiefs1]

If you just base it on conference only statistics then you have to say MU...the round robin tournament starting on the 24th will be interesting to watch.

11/24/07 KU vs MU at Arrowhead
12/01/07 OU vs winner of KU/MU at the AlamoDome

http://www.big12sports.com/sports/m-.../confonly.html




SCORING OFFENSE G TD XP 2XP DXP FG Saf Pts Avg
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. Missouri.................. 5 26 25 1 0 9 0 210 42.0
2. Kansas.................... 5 26 22 0 0 8 0 202 40.4
3. Oklahoma State.......... 5 25 25 0 0 6 0 193 38.6
4. Kansas State............. 6 26 25 1 0 13 0 222 37.0
5. Texas Tech............... 6 26 25 0 0 5 0 196 32.7
6. Texas....................... 6 26 24 0 0 5 0 195 32.5
7. Oklahoma................ 5 21 17 0 0 3 0 152 30.4
8. Colorado................... 6 16 16 0 0 11 0 145 24.2
9. Nebraska.................. 6 17 15 2 0 4 0 133 22.2
10.Texas A&M................ 6 16 13 1 0 5 0 126 21.0
11.Iowa State............... 6 13 13 0 0 4 0 103 17.2
12.Baylor..................... 6 9 7 0 0 4 0 73 12.2


SCORING DEFENSE G TD XP 2XP DXP FG Saf Pts Avg
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. Missouri.................. 5 12 8 0 0 5 0 95 19.0
2. Kansas................... 5 12 10 2 0 4 0 98 19.6
3. Oklahoma............... 5 13 13 0 0 3 0 100 20.0
4. Texas..................... 6 18 17 1 0 5 0 142 23.7
5. Texas A&M.............. 6 18 17 0 0 6 0 143 23.8
6. Texas Tech.............. 6 20 20 0 0 4 0 152 25.3
7. Kansas State............ 6 20 18 0 0 6 0 156 26.0
8. Oklahoma State......... 5 21 20 1 0 4 0 160 32.0
9. Colorado................... 6 23 20 0 0 12 0 194 32.3
10.Iowa State............... 6 28 27 1 0 5 0 212 35.3
11.Nebraska.................. 6 32 27 0 0 8 0 243 40.5
12.Baylor..................... 6 30 30 0 0 15 0 255 42.5

[Brock]

Originally Posted by beer bacon

Against Colorado Mizzou had a half dozen drops, a tipped INT on our own eleven, and a blocked punt in our own territory all in the first quarter. After going down down 10-7 in the first quarter, Mizzou got out of first gear and held CU to three first downs and scored 48 points in the last three quarters.

Yes, we know, the only way Mizzou loses is if they beat themselves.

[kepp]

Originally Posted by Chiefs_Mike_Topeka

KU's defense is strong enough that even with MU's offense they can't go 70 yards every possesion. This will equalize whatever advantage MU will have on the offensive side.

Nebraska put up nearly 500 yards of offense on the KU D (200 more yards than MU let them have) and you think your defense is strong enough to stop our offense?

[ROYC75]

Originally Posted by kepp

Nebraska put up nearly 500 yards of offense on the KU D (200 more yards than MU let them have) and you think your defense is strong enough to stop our offense?

This is a bad take..... bad compairson. NU had a different QB, different game plan for both games. NU as of now is starting to look pretty good.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by KChiefs1

MU vs KU statistical comparison of common opponents(TAMU, NU & CU)

Points scored:
MU 136(45.3), KU 114(38) - ADV MU
Points given up:
MU 42(14), KU 64(21.3) - ADV MU
Total Offense:
MU 1759(586.3), KU 1312(437.3) - ADV MU
Total Defense:
MU 873(291), KU 1155(385) - ADV MU
Pass Offense:
MU 1192(397.3), KU 687(219) - ADV MU
Rush Offense:
MU 570(190), KU 625(208.3) - ADV KU
Pass Defense:
MU 582(194), KU 936(312) - ADV MU
Rush Defense:
MU 306(102), KU 219(73) - ADV KU
1st Downs:
MU 89(29.7), KU 75(25) - ADV MU
Opp 1st Downs:
MU 44(14.7), KU 57(19) - ADV MU

MU wins every category but two(rush offense & rush defense).

Yeah, that's a fair comparison. 2 of those opponents were home games for NU while only 1 was a home game for KU.

[Chiefs_Mike_Topeka]

Originally Posted by |Zach|

Wait, so...

If KU can stop MU from going 70 yards on every possession the advantage MU has on offense would be neutralized? WTF?

I never used the word neutralize; I said it will equalize MU's offensive advantage over KU. As good as MU is on offense they will not be able to drive 70 yards every possesion to score against KU. KU's defense is too strong. That does not mean MU won't drive 50 yards a kick a field goal some of those possessions. But KU has allowed only 133 first downs all year, and I believe they lead the conference in forcing 3 and outs. They also lead the conference in preventing 3rd down conversions. They only allow a 29% success rate on 3rd down; although MU is the best at converting 3rd downs at 57%, this will be a key to the game.

[Chiefs_Mike_Topeka]

Originally Posted by Lzen

Yeah, that's a fair comparison. 2 of those opponents were home games for NU while only 1 was a home game for KU.

The biggest problem with comparing common opponents is the sample is too small. Regardless of the outcome of those games every team matches up differently, there are different gameplans, different schemes and not to mention the overall "feel" of a particular game. The only way to compare is the whole season, you get the true statistical identity of a team.

Doesn't really mean shit once the teams line up to actually play, but for arguement sake that what fans have to go by.

[ROYC75]

How many times over the years do we, fans of football say things like STATS don't mean jack shit.

When it comes to RIVALS, you just play cause you usually get the other teams best effort.

[KC_Connection]

Only one team is going to the 'ship. I think you all know who that is.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Only one team is going to the 'ship. I think you all know who that is.

yup.......Go Mizzou

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by Brock

Yes, we know, the only way Mizzou loses is if they beat themselves.

which pretty much guarantees KU a victory




Mizzery folks specialize in beatin' themselves

[Spott]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Only one team is going to the 'ship. I think you all know who that is.

They only want to go to the ship because it's full of seamen.

[KChiefs1]

stole this from another site:

I haven’t been able to listen to every radio show, all day long, every day. But I’ve caught enough to know (and read enough nationally) that too many people seem to be jumping on the KU bandwagon. Too many people (Keitzman, Leabo, Dodd) seem to think that KU might be the best team in the conference or that they are going to beat MU.

Obviously this is all speculation (and it is certainly everyone’s right to have an opinion) – but I just don’t see the logic (though I’m obviously biased and can’t decide if I hate Kansas more than I love Missouri – quite a struggle).

We can look at the two teams in any number of ways and I’m struggling to find a reason why ANYONE can consider Kansas to be the better team – on paper. Obviously, and thankfully, a game in less than two weeks will go along way in settling this. But the time in between is driving me crazy.

NONCONFERENCE SCHEDULE:
Kansas has played:
Central Michigan : 6-4 (1-4 out of conference) – lost to Clemson 70-14

Southeastern Louisianna : 2-8 out of the Southland Conference

Toledo: 5-5 – lost to Central Michigan by 21, beat Iowa State

Florida International: 0-9 out of the Sunbelt Conference

Missouri has played:
Illinois: 8-3 – beat Penn State (#21), Wisconsin (#5), Ohio State (#1 on the road), lost to Michigan

Ole Miss: 3-8 – plays in deepest conference (SEC) – played MU, Florida, Auburn tough

Western Michigan: 3-7 – lost to Central Michigan by 3, won at Toledo (by 14)

Eastern Illinois: I-AA team helps close the gap in schedule strength

CONFERENCE SCHEDULE:
MU has played the tougher conference schedule as well (MU opponents 18-23 in conference – .439 winning %, KU 14-27 – .341 winning %).

OVERALL SCHEDULE:
MU’s two best wins are Illinois and Texas Tech. KU’s two best are ……OSU ant Texas A&M I guess – neither of which will finish over .500. MU also has a win against Texas A&M basically canceling KU’s win out. MU has played three ranked schools (not including Illinois who wasn’t ranked at the time) – trashing two of them! Kansas has played K-State who was ranked a t the time (Colorado WAS NOT, 4-3 entering the Kansas game and just trashed by K-State).

COMMON OPPONENTS:
MU and Kansas have played three common opponents – Nebraska at home, Colorado on the road, Texas A&M (differs). MU has absolutely dominated KU in this category – winning by twice as much, scoring a touchdown more and giving up a touchdown less, and about 100 yards difference in total yards and yards allowed EACH GAME!!!!


MU KU
Nebraska
Point Margin 35 37
Points Scored 41 76
Points Allowed 6 39
Total Yards 606 572
Yards Allowed 297 484

Colorado
Point Margin 45 5
Points Scored 55 19
Points Allowed 10 14
Total Yards 598 333
Yards Allowed 196 35

Texas A&M
Point Margin 14 8
Points Scored 40 19
Points Allowed 26 11
Total Yards 555 407
Yards Allowed 380 318

AVERAGE
Point Margin 31.3 16.7
Points Scored 45.3 38.0
Points Allowed 14.0 21.3
Total Yards 586.3 487.7
Yards Allowed 291.0 385


STATISTICS: I’m not going to look at non-conference games because the two schedules were obviously very different. So I’m just looking at conference games - which isn’t perfect either – but closer anyway. These are taken from the Big 12’s website and cfbstats.com. These are not all categories – but some of the more important ones.
MU KU
Offense
Scoring Offense 1 2
Total Offense 3 5
Rush Offense 5 4
Pass Offense 2 8
First Downs 3 7
3rd Down % 1 6
Red Zone% 2 3
Sacks Allowed 4 9
FG % 1 5
Average Rank 2.44 5.44

Defense
Total Defense 1 3
Rush Defense 2 1
YDS Per Carry 1 2
Pass Defense 2 7
Pass Efficiency 2 1
1st Allowed 3 1
3rd Down % 8 1
Sacks 2 6
TFL 2 8
Red Zone % 8 9
Average Rank 3.10 3.90

MISC
TO Margin 4 1
Penalties 2 1
Opponent’s Penalties 2 11

COACHES: I haven’t bothered to look this up – but Pinkel has roughly 3 times as many wins and some conference championships under his belt (admittedly from the MAC though). He has also been to more bowl games since each joined the Big 12. There e probably isn’t a great difference here – except Pinkel’s program has NEVER BEEN PENALIZED BY THE NCAA and Mangino’s has!!!

DON’T BEAT THEMSELVES: This is one area KU might have a slight edge. They don’t turn the ball over quite as much (5 TO’s for KU, 9 for MU in conference play). They each have allowed one kick to be blocked this season. Both commit very few penalties (20 for KU, 26 for MU in conference play) but MU’s opponents commit many more penalties (for whatever reason). KU has been better on kickoff returns (though Maclin is definitely dangerous) while Missouri has been better on punt returns. KU covers kicks slightly better. MU has the better punter , place kicker, and return man.

INDIVIDUAL TALENT - Talib, Rucker, Maclin (return man), and Daniel (has better numbers across the board than Reesing) all have shots at All-American. MU is significantly better at WR and TE. MU is better at QB and O-Line (as Prince will tell you). RB is interesting as McAnderson has emerged but Temple is pretty good when healthy.

KU’s Talib is an NFL talent – but MU may have the better trio of corners. MU rushes the passer better, stops the run (yards per carry), and covers the pass better. KU forces more turnovers (though most of those came against a backup QB making his first start). Hard to say who has the best LB between Weatherspoon, Christopher, and Mortensen. McClintock is the best DL but Williams and Sulak are probably 2nd and 3rd.

In short, MU has more NFL caliber players I’m guessing (and most would agree) than KU.

I’ve rambled on for long enough. On paper this doesn’t seem to be close (but we all know that means little ). Obviously going undefeated (regardless of opponents) deserves some respect – but not as much as they have gotten.

I’ve got three last points:
1) If this was the NCAA Basketball Tournament how badly would KU be penalized for strength of schedule and quality wins? Obviously the BCS is flawed and this is one glaring example.
2) How many other teams in the nation would be undefeated with KU’s schedule? 15, 20????
3) MU kicked their asses last year 42-17...enough said!

[KChiefs1]

I'm ready!

[barry_smilez20]

hawaii