Football Which QB is better: Dak Prescott or Lamar Jackson? - Page 5

Deberg_1990 · 09-30-2020, 11:01 AM

Was just talking about this with coworkers.

Most agreed Dak overall was better. Both will be looking to get paid soon.

Who’s the better QB?

FloridaMan88 · 09-30-2020, 01:12 PM

Dak over Lamar Jackson.

There are at least 15 QB's I'd take in the NFL currently over Lamar Jackson.

ThaVirus · 09-30-2020, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRM08

Jimmy Grapes, Nick Foles, etc

Hilariously, I totally blanked on these two, but yep. Perfect examples.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eureka

The last 5+ years at the old Coliseum in Oakland wasn't selling out. They had to tarp off the upper deck. No one wants to see crap on the field overtime and that's what the Raiders were. Hell even Chiefs fans didn't like showing up and watching the QB that I can't mention. Vegas will be a different story.

And Paying $12 for a beer is ridiculous. How much do they charge at Chiefs games?

You caught me talking out of my ass lol I wasn't sure if Cleveland or Oakland were actually selling out but the point was that the organizations have still been profitable despite being actual dogshit for the vast majority of the last 20 years.

I know a lot of Browns fans and eeeevery year they've got renewed confidence. "This is the year we finally put it all together!". That douche AutumnWind is here every August talking up the Raiders. I used to do the same shit with Cassel and Alex Smith.

I haven't been to an NFL game since 2012 and never KC

so I can't say, but I went to a couple Orlando Magic games back in 2019 and those beers were definitely in the $10-14 range. Bunch of bullshit.

ModSocks · 09-30-2020, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smithandrew051

And you don’t “sit around for 20 years”. By flipping out of QBs for picks you acquire the capital needed to move around in the draft to get your QB. More opportunities to draft the elite QB should improve your odds of getting one.

Churning out starting caliber QB's every 5-6 years isn't reasonable as there's no guarantee your next guy will be worth a shit.

It's just not a realistic way to run a football team. You can't just keep hitting reset at the end of every rookie contract until you find a generational talent.

Dak is a top 10-15 QB in this league. If you can't win with a QB that's better than what most teams have, the problem isn't the QB.

Again, at what point is a QB good enough to win with?

ModSocks · 09-30-2020, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRM08

Jimmy Grapes, Nick Foles, etc

I'd throw '18 Tom Brady in there too. '18 Tom Brady was not a special QB.

How about post-HGH SB winning Manning?

This idea that you shouldn't retain a top 10 QB just because he's not a top 3 QB is silly when we have examples of guys who aren't even top 10 taking their teams to the SB and even winning them.

CP collective has long had this ridiculous belief that if the QB isn't generational then they're just not very good.

**DaneMcCloud** · 09-30-2020, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

History is littered with 'running' QBs that eventually learned to read a defense. Cunningham eventually got better at it, so did Vick. Of course, plenty of them didn't as well.

Randall Cunningham was drafted in 1985 and not allowed to play until 1987, which was very common in those days. Once he was allowed to play, he was a very, very good QB from the start, with several 3,500+ yard seasons when healthy. Sure, he improved substantially throughout his career but from a pure passer standpoint, he was miles ahead of Lamar by the time they were starters in the NFL.

Greg Roman had to design an offense for Lamar Jackson. Jackson isn't a guy that you can fit into the Erhardt-Perkins or WCO or Coryell from Day One. If he was, he'd be on par with Mahomes and it's clear that he's no where near the type of QB that can handle even one of those offense, let alone, several.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

But let's say Lamar doesn't get much better at the cerebral part of being a QB. He still owns the best record for a QB against the league, unless he plays the Chiefs. That means going to the playoffs nearly every season.

The Titans and Browns shut him down last year. The Chiefs did it Monday. I would be absolutely shocked if the Steelers can't contain him this year because their defense might be the most talented in the AFC.

It's one thing to be a Pocket Passer with mobility and it's another to be a Running QB that can pass the ball. Lamar is the latter and until he can prove he can stand in the pocket and consistently throw down field with accuracy, defenses will be able to force him into bad throws and bad throwing lanes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

When's the last time Dak got into the post-season? How many consecutive seasons?

This is ridiculous argument. Dak has put up Matt Ryan and Trent Green type of numbers. Those teams have had difficulty winning in the playoffs due to their defenses.

The 2004 Chiefs had the #1 offense in the NFL yet went 7-9. Does anyone in their right mind blame Trent Green?

Eureka · 09-30-2020, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Hilariously, I totally blanked on these two, but yep. Perfect examples.

You caught me talking out of my ass lol I wasn't sure if Cleveland or Oakland were actually selling out but the point was that the organizations have still been profitable despite being actual dogshit for the vast majority of the last 20 years.

I know a lot of Browns fans and eeeevery year they've got renewed confidence. "This is the year we finally put it all together!". That douche AutumnWind is here every August talking up the Raiders. I used to do the same shit with Cassel and Alex Smith.

I haven't been to an NFL game since 2012 and never KC

so I can't say, but I went to a couple Orlando Magic games back in 2019 and those beers were definitely in the $10-14 range. Bunch of bullshit.

To be fair the Browns have a 1st round QB every couple years to have renewed hope. Thus bringing fans back and making them profitable. To get back on topic I think Cleveland would love to have Dak as a franchise QB. Heck even the Raiders.

Dak would be sought after in free agency by a lot of teams. Lamar as well but he would take a certain coach to cater to his game.

mililo4cpa · 09-30-2020, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Who's better right this minute? Dak, no question.

Thing is, Dak has peaked. This is Dak, for better or worse, you're getting exactly what you see here.

Lamar is still at least 50% potential. He could become a better pocket passer. He could learn to read defenses pre- and post-snap. He could learn to manipulate defenses.

Basically outside of his running ability, Lamar is a clean slate, with an enormous amount of potential, and not a lot of downside.

Couldn't disagree more:

Dak is who he is at this point....he's been around long enough in the pro game to learn the ropes

Lamar: He folds like a lawn chair when he is put in duress....that's mental, and nothing will ever change that.

EDIT: I misread your comment on Dak....we do agree there

**DaneMcCloud** · 09-30-2020, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

CP collective has long had this ridiculous belief that if the QB isn't generational then they're just not very good.

Yep and I've been saying it for years on end.

Chiefsplanet didn't want a Franchise QB, they wanted a Hall of Fame QB.

Trent Green and Alex Smith were Franchise QB's, just like Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford and Philip Rivers are Franchise QB's. Big numbers, lots of wins at times but incapable of putting a team on its back and winning, no matter the situation and no matter how poorly the defense has played throughout the season and game.

Mahomes is clearly a Hall of Famer and a generational QB that will completely change the game of football over the next two decades. He's Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter and Steph Curry wrapped into one.

Megatron96 · 09-30-2020, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Randall Cunningham was drafted in 1985 and not allowed to play until 1987, which was very common in those days. Once he was allowed to play, he was a very, very good QB from the start, with several 3,500+ yard seasons when healthy. Sure, he improved substantially throughout his career but from a pure passer standpoint, he was miles ahead of Lamar by the time they were starters in the NFL.

Greg Roman had to design an offense for Lamar Jackson. Jackson isn't a guy that you can fit into the Erhardt-Perkins or WCO or Coryell from Day One. If he was, he'd be on par with Mahomes and it's clear that he's no where near the type of QB that can handle even one of those offense, let alone, several.

The Titans and Browns shut him down last year. The Chiefs did it Monday. I would be absolutely shocked if the Steelers can't contain him this year because their defense might be the most talented in the AFC.

It's one thing to be a Pocket Passer with mobility and it's another to be a Running QB that can pass the ball. Lamar is the latter and until he can prove he can stand in the pocket and consistently throw down field with accuracy, defenses will be able to force him into bad throws and bad throwing lanes.

This is ridiculous argument. Dak has put up Matt Ryan and Trent Green type of numbers. Those teams have had difficulty winning in the playoffs due to their defenses.

The 2004 Chiefs had the #1 offense in the NFL yet went 7-9. Does anyone in their right mind blame Trent Green?

Kind of making one of my points for me. How many seasons did Lamar have playing QB in college? I don't remember, but it couldn't have been for more than a season or two if he was drafted at 21 years old. So there's plenty of potential once he's had enough experience, right? I mean, one way to look at the guy is that he's basically two years behind most of his draft class, experience-wise. How much can he learn in the next two years?

Right now he's basically playing the "offense with training wheels" under Roman. But that doesn't mean he can't outgrow that offense.

And QBs get the bulk of the blame and the credit, that's just how it is. I could argue that Dak was given the keys to a Mercedes and has managed absolutely nothing with it. He had the best OL, one of the best RBs, a HOF TE, a decent receiving corps, and a better than average defense, all at the same time. And failed to do anything significant with it.

At what point can we blame Dak for the Cowboys' perennial failures? I mean, the guy wanted more weapons, he got them, and still didn't make the post-season. Someone decided finally that Garrett wasn't doing his job to help Dak win football games, so in comes Mike McCarthy. The Cowboys are 1-2.

I mean, I agree with you; Dak is basically Trent Green. But if I'm the hypothetical GM of a hypothetical team and my choices are Dak or Lamar to QB my team going forward, why on Earth would I pick Trent Green?

From a money standpoint alone, I'd have to pick Lamar. But that's getting off-topic. I would rather pick the guy that has more upside performance-wise and more potential. No way am I picking Trent Green over Mike Vick.

**DaneMcCloud** · 09-30-2020, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Kind of making one of my points for me.

No, I am not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

How many seasons did Lamar have playing QB in college? I don't remember, but it couldn't have been for more than a season or two if he was drafted at 21 years old.

Wrong again. He was a full 3 year starter at Louisville.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

So there's plenty of potential once he's had enough experience, right? I mean, one way to look at the guy is that he's basically two years behind most of his draft class, experience-wise. How much can he learn in the next two years?

How many years does any man need to become an NFL QB? If three years in Petrino's system and 2+ years in Roman's system, which was specifically designed for him, how many more does he need?

3? 5?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

And QBs get the bulk of the blame and the credit, that's just how it is.

Really? How much "blame" does Matt Stafford or Matt Ryan receive each year when their teams fail to reach the playoffs? How much blame does Aaron Rodgers take when the team fails to reach the playoffs?

Trent Green?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I could argue that Dak was given the keys to a Mercedes and has managed absolutely nothing with it. He had the best OL, one of the best RBs, a HOF TE, a decent receiving corps, and a better than average defense, all at the same time. And failed to do anything significant with it.

What? Dak threw for nearly 5,000 yards last year with 30 TD's. How did he not live up to his end of the bargain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

At what point can we blame Dak for the Cowboys' perennial failures?

We? Who is this "we" you speak of?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I mean, the guy wanted more weapons, he got them, and still didn't make the post-season. Someone decided finally that Garrett wasn't doing his job to help Dak win football games, so in comes Mike McCarthy. The Cowboys are 1-2.

The Cowboys aren't 1-2 because of their offense. The defense gave up 38 and 39 points in their past two games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I mean, I agree with you; Dak is basically Trent Green. But if I'm the hypothetical GM of a hypothetical team and my choices are Dak or Lamar to QB my team going forward, why on Earth would I pick Trent Green?

Because Lamar Jackson isn't a QB that can run the WCO, Coryell or E/P.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

From a money standpoint alone, I'd have to pick Lamar. But that's getting off-topic. I would rather pick the guy that has more upside performance-wise and more potential. No way am I picking Trent Green over Mike Vick.

Megatron96 · 09-30-2020, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

No, I am not.

Wrong again. He was a full 3 year starter at Louisville.

How many years does any man need to become an NFL QB? If three years in Petrino's system and 2+ years in Roman's system, which was specifically designed for him, how many more does he need?

3? 5?

Really? How much "blame" does Matt Stafford or Matt Ryan receive each year when their teams fail to reach the playoffs? How much blame does Aaron Rodgers take when the team fails to reach the playoffs?

Trent Green?

What? Dak threw for nearly 5,000 yards last year with 30 TD's. How did he not live up to his end of the bargain?

We? Who is this "we" you speak of?

The Cowboys aren't 1-2 because of their offense. The defense gave up 38 and 39 points in their past two games.

Because Lamar Jackson isn't a QB that can run the WCO, Coryell or E/P.

Okay, for some reason I thought Lamar came in after only two seasons in college, My bad.

And I'm not sure how long it's supposed to take to become a good QB in the NFL. Technically speaking, it took Vick a while. But I think it's fair to say that Lamar's experience as a passer when he came into the league was limited. It's also fair to say that his passing stats are getting better year-to-year. But I agree that he might be nearing his ceiling already.

How many times did the fans blamed Alex Smith for post-season failures? When Romo was the DAL QB how many times did he get blamed for losses, or even entire seasons? I'm surrounded by Cowboys' fans in this place, so I lost count a long time ago.

"We" is the general universe of football fans.

And again, Lamar right now is running an offense with training wheels, but that doesn't necessarily mean he can't outgrow that offense. He might just need another season or two. Or maybe he never does. But if he does, even if he just gets about Alex Smith level in terms of reading defenses, making pre-snap adjustments, etc. he'd be a lot more dangerous and difficult to defend than Dak. To some hypothetical GMs it might be worth the wait to find out.

**DaneMcCloud** · 09-30-2020, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

And again, Lamar right now is running an offense with training wheels, but that doesn't necessarily mean he can't outgrow that offense. He might just need another season or two. Or maybe he never does. But if he does, even if he just gets about Alex Smith level in terms of reading defenses, making pre-snap adjustments, etc. he'd be a lot more dangerous and difficult to defend than Dak. To some hypothetical GMs it might be worth the wait to find out.

There's a reason why 31 teams passed on Lamar Jackson.

Teams passed on him because they couldn't see him running a traditional NFL offense, whether it's the WCO, E/P or Coryell.

Greg Roman also designed an offense for Colin Kaepernick.

Once Roman was fired, Kaepernick struggled in Chip Kelly's WCO and hasn't played a down since.

htismaqe · 09-30-2020, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

It's true. It's also why it was so infuriating that Chief Fan was screaming for the Chiefs to draft someone, anyone as a first round QB. Andy was waiting until he found a Mahomes.

To be fair, I was 10 years old the last time the Chiefs drafted a QB of note.

I'm almost 50.

It's not like we were being totally unreasonable.

htismaqe · 09-30-2020, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

CP collective has long had this ridiculous belief that if the QB isn't generational then they're just not very good.

After years of guys like Grbac, Cassel, and Smith, how is this shocking?

Nobody here thinks Trent Green was a bad QB. Is he generational?

This fan base wanted to win a Super Bowl before they ****ing DIED. It's really pretty damn simple.

htismaqe · 09-30-2020, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yep and I've been saying it for years on end.

Chiefsplanet didn't want a Franchise QB, they wanted a Hall of Fame QB.

Trent Green and Alex Smith were Franchise QB's, just like Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford and Philip Rivers are Franchise QB's. Big numbers, lots of wins at times but incapable of putting a team on its back and winning, no matter the situation and no matter how poorly the defense has played throughout the season and game.

Mahomes is clearly a Hall of Famer and a generational QB that will completely change the game of football over the next two decades. He's Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter and Steph Curry wrapped into one.

Trent Green, yes. Alex Smith, no.

This fanbase wanted to win a Super Bowl. It was pretty obvious that a guy that plays the game like Alex Smith wasn't ever going to win one. You don't win big games playing things close to the vest every down.

So no, it wasn't about having a HoF QB. It was about having a QB that was good enough to win it all. AKA not Alex Smith.

09-30-2020, 11:01 AM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3914454	Which QB is better: Dak Prescott or Lamar Jackson? Was just talking about this with coworkers. Most agreed Dak overall was better. Both will be looking to get paid soon. Who’s the better QB?
Posts: 66,914

09-30-2020, 01:12 PM	#61
FloridaMan88 Mahomes: We Are All Witnesses Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Casino cash: $3182906	Dak over Lamar Jackson. There are at least 15 QB's I'd take in the NFL currently over Lamar Jackson.
Posts: 38,170