Cardinals "Official" 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Thread - Page 139

**BigRedChief** · 02:10 PM

This is so unreal. We were dead. No hope. A season over. Somehow, someway we find some team chemistry and squeak into the playoffs on the last day of the season.

Only to find us facing one of the best pitching staffs assembled in years with home field advantage. We somehow, someway find a way to beat the best pitcher in baseball on the road in an elimination game.

We have to go on the road and beat the team with the best home record in baseball. A team who mortgaged their future to make this run .We somehow, someway find a way to beat them on the road and make our 18th World series trip.

We take game 1, we give away game 2 and home field advantage. Albert goes off for probably the best performance in World Series history and we take game 3 easily. Games 4 & 5 our bats fall asleep, Phone gate happens and its not looking too good.

Game 6, one of the best baseball games of all time and it takes place in a season ending go home game. Cardinals are down 2 runs in their final chance on the season, twice. They are down to their final strike of the season, twice. They give up a 2 run homer in extra innings. In the bottom of the inning their final 3 batters are a combined 3-26 in the Playoffs and a pitcher because the bench is empty. Somehow, someway they get some runners on and the comeback player of the year drives in the tying run. Mr. Freese hits the walk off home run. We will see you tommorrow night.

Game 7, With our bulldog on the mound pitching on 3 days rest he is able to give us 6 good innings and get us to within 9 outs of our 11 World series title. Texas meltsdown, probably left over from last nights game and its over.

The underdog, come back team who had no business even being in the playoffs wins a World championship. They make movies about events like this in life. Events that you remember even if your not a fan of the sport or team for the rest of your life.

When it is your team.......Priceless

.

**BigRedChief** · 07-13-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Our future solid, but I won't go overboard. I still prefer the Reds 40-man over ours as our group of developmental position players is pretty sub-standard.

I'm not an expert on the Reds 40 man roster but no friggin way they have a better projected roster than us in 2013-2014.

VAChief · 07-13-2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

68 K's in 103 innings and a K/BB ratio of under 2....eesh; seems awfully light for a dude with Raz's pedigree that can play CF.

If you time his heat (which is a little too straight for my tastes), you can just get to fouling off pitches until he walks you. Without a plus putaway pitch, he's no more than a good #3 starter.

To get a guy with 30 HR power that plays a damn tough position to fill, they should get a better return.

I didn't mean to say I would do it, I just don't think they need to add players beyond Rasmus for Shields. For me it isn't Hellickson straight up or Moore plus a prospect that isn't one of our Futures pitchers.

VAChief · 07-13-2011, 07:03 PM

Curious Case of Curt Flood is just coming on HBO right now. Anyone seen it yet?

DJ's left nut · 07-13-2011, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I'm not an expert on the Reds 40 man roster but no friggin way they have a better projected roster than us in 2013-2014.

They don't have the high-end SP prospects we have, but they have better depth than we do. And if you believe Chapman can start (I don't), they suddenly have some pretty strong top end pitchers as well.

I'd still take our starting rotation going forward, but with Votto/Bruce/Stubbs/Alonso/Mesoraco and a few others who's names escape me, their everyday 8 shapes up much better than ours.

Their stars are coming, ours will be going. Are you confident that a 34 yr old Pujols will be better than a 31 yr old Votto? I'm not. And I know I wouldn't take a 34 yr old Holliday over a 27 yr old Bruce (who I expect will be an MVP candidate as soon as next season). Don't underestimate their bullets on the farm, they have a ton of talent down there.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-13-2011, 07:42 PM

I don't know their roster very well, or their farm system for that matter, but I'd have to think that the Rangers would be interested in Rasmus.

What would you want in return?

**BigRedChief** · 07-13-2011, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

They don't have the high-end SP prospects we have, but they have better depth than we do. And if you believe Chapman can start (I don't), they suddenly have some pretty strong top end pitchers as well.

I'd still take our starting rotation going forward, but with Votto/Bruce/Stubbs/Alonso/Mesoraco and a few others who's names escape me, their everyday 8 shapes up much better than ours.

Their stars are coming, ours will be going. Are you confident that a 34 yr old Pujols will be better than a 31 yr old Votto? I'm not. And I know I wouldn't take a 34 yr old Holliday over a 27 yr old Bruce (who I expect will be an MVP candidate as soon as next season). Don't underestimate their bullets on the farm, they have a ton of talent down there.

Let Votto do what Pujols has done for 10 years and I'll compare apples to apples.

Our potential SP will render a lot of bats impotent. In baseball, over the long haul, great pitching always trumps great hitting.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-13-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I don't know their roster very well, or their farm system for that matter, but I'd have to think that the Rangers would be interested in Rasmus.

What would you want in return?

If you're going to trade him somewhere, trade him to a team desperate for offense, like San Francisco.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-13-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

If you're going to trade him somewhere, trade him to a team desperate for offense, like San Francisco.

Not terribly familiar with their roster either.

Do they need Beltran and Rasmus?

And the question remains, what would you want in return?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-13-2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Not terribly familiar with their roster either.

Do they need Beltran and Rasmus?

And the question remains, what would you want in return?

Rasmus for Bumgarner, straight up.

Their offense is horrible throughout.

Wainwright, Garcia, Bumgarner, Miller, Martinez

Best starting 5 in baseball, and two of the five can cut the nuts off of the Phillies' LH bats.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-13-2011, 10:44 PM

I would not trade Colby Rasmus for anything less than a SP who profiles as a future #2 or higher, or a legit IF bat.

The guy hit 23 HR and put up an 859 OPS in his age 23 season, for Chrissakes. He's still young. He hasn't peaked as a player, even close to it.

If he's hitting .280 and giving you 25 HR a year, as he should in a "normal" year for him, IMO, that's a huge asset. He has .280 30+ HR potential in good years.

DJ's left nut · 07-14-2011, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Rasmus for Bumgarner, straight up.

Their offense is horrible throughout.

Wainwright, Garcia, Bumgarner, Miller, Martinez

Best starting 5 in baseball, and two of the five can cut the nuts off of the Phillies' LH bats.

Ech - no way on Bumgarner.

The kid is 4-9 with a league average WHIP and an ERA just a tick south of 4.

Maybe the Bumgarner of 3 years ago, before he lost 5 mph on his fastball for no reason that anyone could ever figure out. He got a couple of them back, but the 96 mph heat that made him such a prospect is gone and he's living around 91-92 at this point. The present Bumgarner is little more than a junk-tossing lefty that's making his living by pitching in a pitchers park against a pitcher's division.

That kid has Kirk Reuter written all over him. Absolutely no chance in hell I'd trade Rasmus for him.

I'd absolutely send them Berkman for Bumgarner though.

DJ's left nut · 07-14-2011, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I would not trade Colby Rasmus for anything less than a SP who profiles as a future #2 or higher, or a legit IF bat.

The guy hit 23 HR and put up an 859 OPS in his age 23 season, for Chrissakes. He's still young. He hasn't peaked as a player, even close to it.

If he's hitting .280 and giving you 25 HR a year, as he should in a "normal" year for him, IMO, that's a huge asset. He has .280 30+ HR potential in good years.

Wait....so why do you want to trade him for Bumgarner? And how can you hate Garcia (who has much better movement than Bumgarner and a better lefty arsenal) while wanting Bumgarner badly enough to trade a CFer with AS upside?

I'd take Garcia's future over Bums without blinking.

Zach Britton is a young lefty that I'd absolutely love to have, but the O's aren't moving him (and they have Adam Jones already).

The Rays are a nice trade partner (I've decided I'd do Hellickson and McGee for him). And the Braves are a really nice trade partner w/ their young arms. Rasmus may actually get you Julio Teheran from them. Maybe Minor and Vizcaino? Besides, the last time we traded a high ceiling, underachieving OFer for one of their highly touted spare arms, it worked out okay for us. Minor/Vizcaino would be very similar to Marquis/Wainwright.

Those are the organizations I'd look to if I'm dealing Raz.

Chief Roundup · 07-14-2011, 01:23 PM

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/new...633658416-1068

Arms top Cards' Trade Deadline priorities

By Matthew Leach / MLB.com | 07/14/11 10:00 AM ET

ST. LOUIS -- Eight months ago, the Cardinals embarked on an ambitious offseason plan to revitalize their offense and their clubhouse. The plan has been, through half of the 2011 season, a rousing success.

Now, with run scoring pretty well taken care of, it's time to address the other half of the winning equation: run prevention. As the non-waiver Trade Deadline approaches, the Cards are seeking at least one pitcher to upgrade their staff, and possibly more than one.

"I still think our focus is going to be on a starter or bullpen help," general manager John Mozeliak said on Wednesday, two days before the Redbirds begin their post-All-Star schedule in Cincinnati.

"We certainly like what we have, but if we can improve, we'd like to try."

If there's one thing that an aggressive team can just about always acquire at the deadline, it's relief pitching. Unfortunately for the Redbirds, they're not the only club that knows that, so they're not the only club seeking a bullpen upgrade. They could use help on both the right and left sides of the relief corps.

It's also conceivable that St. Louis could acquire a starting pitcher, allowing the team to use one of its current starters to bolster the bullpen. That would be a more difficult move to make, though.

"I just don't want to not explore things," Mozeliak said. "I think the likelihood of us getting a starter is probably very small. But as we spend these next 18 days, we're going to be open to really anything, if we think we can better the club."

As the Cardinals have gotten healthier in recent weeks, the club's needs have been displayed in even sharper relief. The offense ranks second in the National League in runs scored, and that's even after doing without Albert Pujols, Matt Holliday, David Freese and Allen Craig for considerable periods of time.

With the first three of those hitters back, and the fourth on the way, the offense is in very good shape. The Cards are 11th in the league in runs allowed, however, and there is less on the way to help. Rookie reliever Eduardo Sanchez is on a rehabilitation assignment at Double-A Springfield, but his return date remains uncertain. And even when Sanchez pitched, he was sometimes brilliant and sometimes erratic.

So St. Louis will seek pitching help, most likely on the relief side. The club has most commonly been linked to San Diego's Heath Bell, but plenty of teams are in the hunt for the Padres' All-Star. The Friars could also move Chad Qualls or Mike Adams, while Florida's Leo Nunez and former Cardinals closer Jason Isringhausen, now with the Mets, are also among the righties who could be on the market. Boston's Hideki Okajima and the Mets' Tim Byrdak represent a couple of the left-handed options as the Cardinals shop.

Regardless of what they're shopping for, though, the Cardinals will definitely be buyers. Their farm system has recovered a bit from a year ago, so there are some prospects who could be dealt without crippling the organization. And while Mozeliak declined to say that the team has money to spend, he certainly didn't rule out having some payroll flexibility.

"It just depends on what we're getting," he said. "That determines how we want to invest. And the other part of that equation is what you're giving up. Are we in position to make a move? I think the answer is yes. But the variables are so broad, I think it's tough to answer just one portion."

Any move, even a short-term one, will take place in the shadow of a couple of real-world considerations. Albert Pujols is, of course, a free agent after the season. The Cards must be aware that if they re-sign Pujols, they may have to save money at other spots on the roster, meaning that they must choose wisely which prospects to deal.

And if a trade includes a player who would be around beyond 2011, then it's obviously even more complicated. The Cardinals are in a tough spot regarding '12 until they know whether -- or how much -- they'll be paying Pujols.

That's part of the reason why St. Louis didn't deal for Francisco Rodriguez, who went to the Brewers on Tuesday. If Rodriguez had come to the Cardinals, he almost certainly would have been the closer. That very likely would have put him in position to secure a $17.5 million vesting option for 2012 -- a risk the Redbirds were unwilling to take.

In a bigger sense, though, there is some real pressure to win now because of the uncertainty that lingers after this season. Pujols could be gone next year. Chris Carpenter's future is not determined, with the team holding an option on him for 2012. It's very likely that the Cardinals will be a contender next year, but they can't afford to fritter away what might be Pujols' last season wearing the birds on the bat.

So they're going to try to upgrade, and make a team currently tied for first in the NL Central into a stronger squad in the here and now.

"I think our organization has decided a chance to win is precious," manager Tony La Russa said. "The big message to the team is, they're going to try."

Sounds like Relief pitching for minor league player is what we have in mind.
Bell, Nunez, Okajima, Byrdak

Rams Fan · 07-14-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Rasmus may actually get you Julio Teheran from them.

As much as I'd love to trade Rasmus for Teheran, there is no chance that the Braves would do that.

You don't trade one of the best, one could say the best, pitching prospect for Rasmus. The Braves know their shit, they develop nice starters. Teheran is going to be something.

DJ's left nut · 07-14-2011, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

As much as I'd love to trade Rasmus for Teheran, there is no chance that the Braves would do that.

You don't trade one of the best, one could say the best, pitching prospect for Rasmus. The Braves know their shit, they develop nice starters. Teheran is going to be something.

When you have Hanson, Vizcaino, Jurrjens, Minor and Beachy already lined up for your rotation for the next 1/2 decade, you just might consider dealing Teheran to bring in the local boy.

Not saying they'll do it with a smile, but they might not be as reluctant as you think given the depth, youth and performance of their starters in-house.

01-06-2011, 09:41 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $2909627 VARSITY	"Official" 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Thread This is so unreal. We were dead. No hope. A season over. Somehow, someway we find some team chemistry and squeak into the playoffs on the last day of the season. Only to find us facing one of the best pitching staffs assembled in years with home field advantage. We somehow, someway find a way to beat the best pitcher in baseball on the road in an elimination game. We have to go on the road and beat the team with the best home record in baseball. A team who mortgaged their future to make this run .We somehow, someway find a way to beat them on the road and make our 18th World series trip. We take game 1, we give away game 2 and home field advantage. Albert goes off for probably the best performance in World Series history and we take game 3 easily. Games 4 & 5 our bats fall asleep, Phone gate happens and its not looking too good. Game 6, one of the best baseball games of all time and it takes place in a season ending go home game. Cardinals are down 2 runs in their final chance on the season, twice. They are down to their final strike of the season, twice. They give up a 2 run homer in extra innings. In the bottom of the inning their final 3 batters are a combined 3-26 in the Playoffs and a pitcher because the bench is empty. Somehow, someway they get some runners on and the comeback player of the year drives in the tying run. Mr. Freese hits the walk off home run. We will see you tommorrow night. Game 7, With our bulldog on the mound pitching on 3 days rest he is able to give us 6 good innings and get us to within 9 outs of our 11 World series title. Texas meltsdown, probably left over from last nights game and its over. The underdog, come back team who had no business even being in the playoffs wins a World championship. They make movies about events like this in life. Events that you remember even if your not a fan of the sport or team for the rest of your life. When it is your team.......Priceless . Attached Thumbnails Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-29-2011 at 02:10 PM..
Posts: 79,190

07-13-2011, 07:03 PM	#2073
VAChief Comfortably Numb Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Virginia Casino cash: $5025842	Curious Case of Curt Flood is just coming on HBO right now. Anyone seen it yet?
Posts: 5,554

07-13-2011, 07:42 PM	#2075
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $4811115	I don't know their roster very well, or their farm system for that matter, but I'd have to think that the Rangers would be interested in Rasmus. What would you want in return?
Posts: 60,268

07-13-2011, 10:44 PM	#2080
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7969572	I would not trade Colby Rasmus for anything less than a SP who profiles as a future #2 or higher, or a legit IF bat. The guy hit 23 HR and put up an 859 OPS in his age 23 season, for Chrissakes. He's still young. He hasn't peaked as a player, even close to it. If he's hitting .280 and giving you 25 HR a year, as he should in a "normal" year for him, IMO, that's a huge asset. He has .280 30+ HR potential in good years. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln Last edited by 'Hamas' Jenkins; 07-13-2011 at 10:50 PM..
Posts: 74,842

07-14-2011, 01:23 PM	#2083
Chief Roundup Admitted Planet Junky Join Date: Oct 2000 Casino cash: $1831627	http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/new...633658416-1068 Arms top Cards' Trade Deadline priorities By Matthew Leach / MLB.com \| 07/14/11 10:00 AM ET ST. LOUIS -- Eight months ago, the Cardinals embarked on an ambitious offseason plan to revitalize their offense and their clubhouse. The plan has been, through half of the 2011 season, a rousing success. Now, with run scoring pretty well taken care of, it's time to address the other half of the winning equation: run prevention. As the non-waiver Trade Deadline approaches, the Cards are seeking at least one pitcher to upgrade their staff, and possibly more than one. "I still think our focus is going to be on a starter or bullpen help," general manager John Mozeliak said on Wednesday, two days before the Redbirds begin their post-All-Star schedule in Cincinnati. "We certainly like what we have, but if we can improve, we'd like to try." If there's one thing that an aggressive team can just about always acquire at the deadline, it's relief pitching. Unfortunately for the Redbirds, they're not the only club that knows that, so they're not the only club seeking a bullpen upgrade. They could use help on both the right and left sides of the relief corps. It's also conceivable that St. Louis could acquire a starting pitcher, allowing the team to use one of its current starters to bolster the bullpen. That would be a more difficult move to make, though. "I just don't want to not explore things," Mozeliak said. "I think the likelihood of us getting a starter is probably very small. But as we spend these next 18 days, we're going to be open to really anything, if we think we can better the club." As the Cardinals have gotten healthier in recent weeks, the club's needs have been displayed in even sharper relief. The offense ranks second in the National League in runs scored, and that's even after doing without Albert Pujols, Matt Holliday, David Freese and Allen Craig for considerable periods of time. With the first three of those hitters back, and the fourth on the way, the offense is in very good shape. The Cards are 11th in the league in runs allowed, however, and there is less on the way to help. Rookie reliever Eduardo Sanchez is on a rehabilitation assignment at Double-A Springfield, but his return date remains uncertain. And even when Sanchez pitched, he was sometimes brilliant and sometimes erratic. So St. Louis will seek pitching help, most likely on the relief side. The club has most commonly been linked to San Diego's Heath Bell, but plenty of teams are in the hunt for the Padres' All-Star. The Friars could also move Chad Qualls or Mike Adams, while Florida's Leo Nunez and former Cardinals closer Jason Isringhausen, now with the Mets, are also among the righties who could be on the market. Boston's Hideki Okajima and the Mets' Tim Byrdak represent a couple of the left-handed options as the Cardinals shop. Regardless of what they're shopping for, though, the Cardinals will definitely be buyers. Their farm system has recovered a bit from a year ago, so there are some prospects who could be dealt without crippling the organization. And while Mozeliak declined to say that the team has money to spend, he certainly didn't rule out having some payroll flexibility. "It just depends on what we're getting," he said. "That determines how we want to invest. And the other part of that equation is what you're giving up. Are we in position to make a move? I think the answer is yes. But the variables are so broad, I think it's tough to answer just one portion." Any move, even a short-term one, will take place in the shadow of a couple of real-world considerations. Albert Pujols is, of course, a free agent after the season. The Cards must be aware that if they re-sign Pujols, they may have to save money at other spots on the roster, meaning that they must choose wisely which prospects to deal. And if a trade includes a player who would be around beyond 2011, then it's obviously even more complicated. The Cardinals are in a tough spot regarding '12 until they know whether -- or how much -- they'll be paying Pujols. That's part of the reason why St. Louis didn't deal for Francisco Rodriguez, who went to the Brewers on Tuesday. If Rodriguez had come to the Cardinals, he almost certainly would have been the closer. That very likely would have put him in position to secure a $17.5 million vesting option for 2012 -- a risk the Redbirds were unwilling to take. In a bigger sense, though, there is some real pressure to win now because of the uncertainty that lingers after this season. Pujols could be gone next year. Chris Carpenter's future is not determined, with the team holding an option on him for 2012. It's very likely that the Cardinals will be a contender next year, but they can't afford to fritter away what might be Pujols' last season wearing the birds on the bat. So they're going to try to upgrade, and make a team currently tied for first in the NL Central into a stronger squad in the here and now. "I think our organization has decided a chance to win is precious," manager Tony La Russa said. "The big message to the team is, they're going to try." Sounds like Relief pitching for minor league player is what we have in mind. Bell, Nunez, Okajima, Byrdak __________________ Fanaticism is nowhere. There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
Posts: 19,228