Game of Thrones (spoiler-free zone)

[keg in kc]

A few have suggested it, might as well test the waters. The idea is to give people who haven't read the books a safe place to talk about the show.

A few quick ground rules:

• No Spoilers!!!!! for upcoming episodes.
• Larger Song of Ice and Fire discussion should be limited to the other thread although I think a tiny bit of book delving to fill in holes should be okay (example of this would be talking about Catelyn and her treatment of the wolves in the novel, which was alluded to on TV but never really made clear...)
• Everything that happened that week is fair game once an episode airs. So if you don't watch on Sunday night, I'd stay outta here until you do...

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Side note on this plotline -- the books did a really good job of developing it a bit more than what the show has been able to do, largely due to time constraints.

I don't get why though. They waste so much time during the shows with stupid, boring shit.

[Ragged Robin]

yeeeaaaah HATE that Sansa gets

Spoiler!

raped

in the show... is this change... entirely... necessary???

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by Ragged Robin

yeeeaaaah HATE that Sansa gets

Spoiler!

raped

in the show... is this change... entirely... necessary???

That was more disturbing than I thought it would be. Just intensifies my hate towards all things Bolton.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Ragged Robin

yeeeaaaah HATE that Sansa gets

Spoiler!

raped

in the show... is this change... entirely... necessary???

They need to have someone that everyone really hates, wants to see die.

[GloucesterChief]

Poor Sansa. At this point she exists just to get shat on and have the audience feel sorry for her.

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by GloucesterChief

Poor Sansa. At this point she exists just to get shat on and have the audience feel sorry for her.

Well, and to make the audience hate Ramsey even more (and perhaps garner new sympathy for Theon), thus setting up some uber catharsis when he bites it (and perhaps Theon plays a part in his demise).

But yes, as I said in the spoiler thread, at this point it's just narrative sadism on the part of the writers (and I'm generally a fan of what they've done with the adaptation).

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by NewChief

Well, and to make the audience hate Ramsey even more (and perhaps garner new sympathy for Theon), thus setting up some uber catharsis when he bites it (and perhaps Theon plays a part in his demise).

But yes, as I said in the spoiler thread, at this point it's just narrative sadism on the part of the writers (and I'm generally a fan of what they've done with the adaptation).

Yeah it seems they are sitting up Theon for redemption. Sansa for revenge and Ramsey for hopefully a painful slow death.

No book spoliers. We are way off the book here. We have no idea whats going to happen with this situation either.

[Ragged Robin]

Originally Posted by NewChief

But yes, as I said in the spoiler thread, at this point it's just narrative sadism on the part of the writers (and I'm generally a fan of what they've done with the adaptation).

They've done it a number of times already, killing Robb's wife & kid, the way Lady Aryn dies, Barristan dying, etc. At this point it just comes across as cheap writing -- making these types of "shocking" changes for the sake of being shocking or for the sake of deviating from the books. In all of these instances, they're handled much more intelligently in the books (and no I'm not one of those book-purist twats, probably half of the total pages written by GRRM are worthless boring filler that needed to be thrown out). I mean I'm all for Sansa getting more of a meaningful role in the story/screen time but "hey, how about she GETS RAPED" is not what I had in mind

Obviously they want us to hate Ramsay but by know we already know he's a piece of shit human being and want him dead. We didn't need to see him rape Sansa to know that by now, it's been pretty obvious for a few seasons already. It's unnecessary and cheap.

Supposedly Peytr has no idea what type of person Ramsay is but I think that's shit. I think his obsession with Caetlyn/Sansa is a large part of what drives his motivations -- obviously not directly and he's long since moved on from that, but more of the idea that it was the first thing in his life that drove his ambitions and from that he became the man he is and therefore still holds deep reverence for Catelyn/Sansa because of that influence. I don't think he would ever have let this let this happen, but apparently he's much more selfish and one-dimensional on the show.

[KevB]

Just watched the last two episodes, and I'm with Robin on the Sansa treatment. Unnecessary, and written that way to add gravity to the end of the episode. Plenty of ways to do that without the approach that was taken. He could "hurt" her in other ways to show the dire straights she's in, yet again.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Ragged Robin

They've done it a number of times already, killing Robb's wife & kid, the way Lady Aryn dies, Barristan dying, etc. At this point it just comes across as cheap writing -- making these types of "shocking" changes for the sake of being shocking or for the sake of deviating from the books. In all of these instances, they're handled much more intelligently in the books (and no I'm not one of those book-purist twats, probably half of the total pages written by GRRM are worthless boring filler that needed to be thrown out). I mean I'm all for Sansa getting more of a meaningful role in the story/screen time but "hey, how about she GETS RAPED" is not what I had in mind

Obviously they want us to hate Ramsay but by know we already know he's a piece of shit human being and want him dead. We didn't need to see him rape Sansa to know that by now, it's been pretty obvious for a few seasons already. It's unnecessary and cheap.

Supposedly Peytr has no idea what type of person Ramsay is but I think that's shit. I think his obsession with Caetlyn/Sansa is a large part of what drives his motivations -- obviously not directly and he's long since moved on from that, but more of the idea that it was the first thing in his life that drove his ambitions and from that he became the man he is and therefore still holds deep reverence for Catelyn/Sansa because of that influence. I don't think he would ever have let this let this happen, but apparently he's much more selfish and one-dimensional on the show.

Lysa dies the same way in the books as she does in the show, no?

[Buehler445]

Everyone is focusing on Sansa getting raped, Which was terrible, but come on. That was totally expected. There is no way Ramsey doesn't do something horrible in that situation.

The part where Tyrian lets it slip that Lord Commander Mormot died to Jorah was incredibly well done. That was absolutely minimalistic dialog but conveyed the emotion from both sides beautifully. Great scene. Really great.

The Arya schtick is getting interesting finally.

Baelysh's line to that Lannister cat about both peddling fantasies was hilarious. The whole sparrows prosecuting the Tyrell kids could get interesting.

I have to say it again, the sand snakes are poorly done. Oberyn was awesome. These girls are crap. Line up 3 Oberyn's and they walk right through Jamie and Bronn. These bitches can't even kill Bronn 2 on 1 or Jamie 1 on 1. That is bad. They're action is bad. Their costumes and props are bad. Blech.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by NewChief

But yes, as I said in the spoiler thread, at this point it's just narrative sadism on the part of the writers (and I'm generally a fan of what they've done with the adaptation).

Couldn't you make that argument for Ramsay's entire character run? He spent like two seasons mentally and physically torturing Theon. Inflicting as much unnecessary pain as possible on others is kind of his thing.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by KevB

Just watched the last two episodes, and I'm with Robin on the Sansa treatment. Unnecessary, and written that way to add gravity to the end of the episode. Plenty of ways to do that without the approach that was taken. He could "hurt" her in other ways to show the dire straights she's in, yet again.

Everyone seems to think the show writers came up with what happened to Sansa, but the same (actually much worse) thing happens in the books, only to a different victim.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Everyone seems to think the show writers came up with what happened to Sansa, but the same (actually much worse) thing happens in the books, only to a different victim.

Yeah, I personally don't know how much the show has differed from the books in this regard (nor do I particularly want to know), but I read something from Cogman (the writer of this episode) who said the torture/humiliation was even worse than what they depicted on the show. Hard to imagine.

[Ragged Robin]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Lysa dies the same way in the books as she does in the show, no?

that example is more about the tone and how it was treated, it was portrayed as plain brutal on the show when in the books it was ****ing CREEPY as **** especially with the bard in singing in the background so that no one outside could hear