2018 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018




Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen.

Outfielders:
Dexter Fowler
Tommy Pham
Marcell Ozuna

Infielders:
Matt Carpenter
Paul DeJong
Kolten Wong

Catchers:
Yadier Molina
Francisco Pena

Utility:
Jose Martinez
Greg Garcia
Yairo Munoz
Jedd Gyrko

Starters:
Carlos Martinez
Michael Wacha
Luke Weaver
Miles Mikolas
Jack Flaherty

Relievers:
Dominic Leone
Tyler Lyons
Bud Norris
Brett Cecil
Sam Tuivailala
Matt Bowman
Jordan Hicks
Mike Mayers

On the DL:
Adam Wainwright
Luke Gregerson

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

I don’t condone spending big money on FA starters either. When’s the last time that’s worked out? Scherzer?

Remember how pissed we were when the Cards missed out on Price? No one is too upset about that now. You have to develop starters from within, something we’re actually fairly decent at until Matheny gets ahold of them.

Yes, I think the market has adjusted more conservatively for pitchers in free agency more recently too. I'm sure you will still have some dumbasses whose owners can't help themselves from time to time. I wonder if in response you might see pitchers more open to deals like CMart got. Bird in the hand. I don't mind the DeJong, even Wong type deals. If you miss you aren't out crippling money and you are likely paying closer for future production than past.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by VAChief

Yes, I think the market has adjusted more conservatively for pitchers in free agency more recently too. I'm sure you will still have some dumbasses whose owners can't help themselves from time to time. I wonder if in response you might see pitchers more open to deals like CMart got. Bird in the hand. I don't mind the DeJong, even Wong type deals. If you miss you aren't out crippling money and you are likely paying closer for future production than past.

The NFL learned years ago that the 2nd contract was the prime and best years. the correlation in MLB would usually be to pay for those years starting immediately after the 6 years of MLB service time. They are 24-26 years old. I think this off season it changed to follow the NFL’s lead, pay for future performance, not past.

Yadi type contracts are rare and going to get rarer. He’s not the best in the game. But, he’s still one of the best catchers in the NL. He’s not hitting .200 and still plays with passion. Ya never know but it looks like he may make it to the end without embrassing himself.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

the correlation in MLB would usually be to pay for those years starting immediately after the 6 years of MLB service time. They are 24-26 years old.

It's not typical that a player is that age after their first 6 years of MLB service time. It's more like 28-30.

MLB really needs to reduce the requirements for FA.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

It's not typical that a player is that age after their first 6 years of MLB service time. It's more like 28-30.

MLB really needs to reduce the requirements for FA.

Maybe for a typical MLB player but not for someone that is going to get $100+ million contract.

Going forward, the high end players that are going to get those $100+ million contracts after their 6 years of service time have probably been drafted young out of high school. Prospered in the minors and quickly promoted to the big show and are prospering at that level too. Kind of like your own Baez, Bryant, Russell etc.

[BigRedChief]

After last nights debacle l thought, okay hoped there maybe some sense of urgency might appear somewhere in the Cardinals organization but nooooooo same lineup except for now we have Fowler starting.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Kind of like your own Baez, Bryant, Russell etc.

None of those players will be younger than 28 when they can be a FA. Bryant wont be a FA til hes 30.

In fact, the ONLY player on the Cubs roster that have been/would be able to be a FA before 28 was Jason Heyward at 26 years old.

Even ex-Cubs like Torres who is really young with the Yankees wont be a FA til he's 27.

You are talking about generational players like A-Rod, Trout, Harper, Machado etc.. fulfilling their service time at a very young age. You just dont see many teenagers make it to MLB.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

None of those players will be younger than 28 when they can be a FA. Bryant wont be a FA til hes 30.

In fact, the ONLY player on the Cubs roster that have been/would be able to be a FA before 28 was Jason Heyward at 26 years old.

Even ex-Cubs like Torres who is really young with the Yankees wont be a FA til he's 27.

whats your point? You think Bryant is not going to get $100+million? That it will be wasted money? Best years are behind him?

I wouldn’t be in favor of giving any 30 year old not named Trout a 8 year+ contract at top $.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

whats your point? You think Bryant is not going to get $100+million? That it will be wasted money? Best years are behind him?

My point is you are well off on your estimation of a players age entering their first year of FA.

Sure, Bryant will get a sizeable contract, assuming that nothing catastrophic happens, but will it be the best possible contract he could have acquired throughout his career if he were able to become a FA at the same age of Harper and Machado? Nope.

The current service time rules are very very very pro-owner.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

The current service time rules are very very very pro-owner.

l get that.

But, Look at Reyes for us. Not a lot of pitchers with the talent to potentially win a Cy Young. Next year will just be gaining strength. We now will only have 3 full years of top level service if he doesn’t get injured again and actually lives up to the hype. And that’s the best case scenerio.

After their service time, if they are still good, they will get generational changing money for their families and future ancestors. That’s not a small thing.

[jd1020]

You'll have 4 years with Reyes, unless you trade him before his arm falls off the next time he's ready to take to a mound.

His arb years will be dirt cheap, comparatively.

Personally I wouldn't take the risk, though. Cardinals need a reboot.

They feel like how I felt about the Chiefs for the last 8 years. An incomplete team hanging on to a couple good players while not making the necessary moves to not waste the talents of those players.

When Reyes is going to potentially make an impact who is left on the Cardinals? Molina is probably a glorified bench coach. Ozuna won't be on the team unless the Cardinals extend him. Carpenter will be in a walk year and 34 years old. Fowler will be cut.

Unless the Cardinals are going to actually be serious about the upcoming FA and open up the wallet, I just see the Mets as the future.

[Jewish Rabbi]

I don’t think the cupboard is bare. While I admittedly don’t follow the minors like DJ and Hamas, there are several promising pitching prospects and more outfielders than we know what to do with. Knizer, Sosa, Perez at C and INF along with DeJong. I know not everyone pans out but it seems to me the biggest issue right now and into the future is Captain Concussion.

[Jewish Rabbi]

And I didn’t even mention Schrock...

[bdj23]

Gah... bad way to lose the no-no.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Originally Posted by BDj23

Gah... bad way to lose the no-no.

Hold them hitless into the 7th and they’ll still figure out how to lose.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

I don’t think the cupboard is bare. While I admittedly don’t follow the minors like DJ and Hamas, there are several promising pitching prospects and more outfielders than we know what to do with. Knizer, Sosa, Perez at C and INF along with DeJong. I know not everyone pans out but it seems to me the biggest issue right now and into the future is Captain Concussion.

Even if they all panned out there's going to be a big void in the middle of the Cardinals lineup. O'neill is the only prospect that has at least a decent power grade, but 44% strikeouts aint gonna cut it.