need advice with family issue

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by memyselfI

Her late husband may have 'treated her like a queen' but these behaviors don't just manifest overnight. Not to mention, that if she had healthy boundaries she would see red flags in the relationship and would have left way before it escalated into abusive. People who stay in these relationships have been conditioned by some sort of previous experience to them. There is a certain 'comfort level' which doesn't exist with people who have not be predisposed to stay in an abusive relationship. Maybe her own parents had this type of relationship.

Healthy people, even if incredibly lonely, don't stay in abusive relationships, period.

BINGO!!!!

[wutamess]

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

This

You mom is a classic co-dependent who is dating an alcoholic who really thinks he doesn't have a problem and is just going through the motions right now because the heat is on. Your mom has cleaned up a lot of this guy's messes already I'm guessing and now she expects you to go along as well. But your boundary setting has exposed her selfish insecurity of having a man at all cost So much so that she verbally abuses her own kids when they disagree with her(e.g. YOU) Co-dependency from the family and friends of the addict involved can be sooooooooo sick at times.

Stay the course if you want your Mom to truly see her behavior for what it is and eventually get better. It will get ugly and will take time, but you will have to let her lie in her own messy bed she has created in order for her to realize for herself that she actually needs to change and not others . There are no guarantees and she may not get better. It will be tempting at times to give in and take care of her by not sticking to your boundaries because it is very difficult as a son not to step in and take care of MOM.

But you see, the co-dependent hates healthy boundaries and literally takes on the same 'personality of manipulation' just like the addict but without physically taking drugs/alcohol. The co-dependent is addicted to feeling responsible for everyone's actions and especially their emotional well being. She is trying to get you to feel responsible for her feelings while she already feels responsible for her alcoholic BF's feelings. And the endless cycle of co-dependent dysfunction just keeps metastasizing from one family generation to the next family generation.

Did your father or grandfather have drinking problems ?? Because this stuff is sooooo generational.

This guy must be a real "shrink". I'd take advice from this guy anytime the way he's able to break down personalities and behaviors.

Excellent post!

[tooge]

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

This

You mom is a classic co-dependent who is dating an alcoholic who really thinks he doesn't have a problem and is just going through the motions right now because the heat is on. Your mom has cleaned up a lot of this guy's messes already I'm guessing and now she expects you to go along as well. But your boundary setting has exposed her selfish insecurity of having a man at all cost So much so that she verbally abuses her own kids when they disagree with her(e.g. YOU) Co-dependency from the family and friends of the addict involved can be sooooooooo sick at times.

Stay the course if you want your Mom to truly see her behavior for what it is and eventually get better. It will get ugly and will take time, but you will have to let her lie in her own messy bed she has created in order for her to realize for herself that she actually needs to change and not others . There are no guarantees and she may not get better. It will be tempting at times to give in and take care of her by not sticking to your boundaries because it is very difficult as a son not to step in and take care of MOM.

But you see, the co-dependent hates healthy boundaries and literally takes on the same 'personality of manipulation' just like the addict but without physically taking drugs/alcohol. The co-dependent is addicted to feeling responsible for everyone's actions and especially their emotional well being. She is trying to get you to feel responsible for her feelings while she already feels responsible for her alcoholic BF's feelings. And the endless cycle of co-dependent dysfunction just keeps metastasizing from one family generation to the next family generation.

Did your father or grandfather have drinking problems ?? Because this stuff is sooooo generational.

Holy shit. you sound like you've been sitting on the wall watching my mother and her interactions with this guy and us kids for the last two years. Yes, my grandfather had drinking problems. My father did as well, but was "functional". And by problems, I mean, he had a couple of coctails every night while watching TV or reading, but was never violent or even visibly drunk. You nailed this situation and my feelings for it. I do find it very difficult to not give in, but as you said, I've set my boundary and I've got to stick to it. thanks

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by tooge

Yes, my grandfather had drinking problems. My father did as well, but was "functional". And by problems, I mean, he had a couple of coctails every night while watching TV or reading, but was never violent or even visibly drunk.

I feel for ya tooge. Here is the dirty little secret about so-called "functional drinking". It doesn't exist and there is no such thing. This is what we call in the mental health industry as an "intellectual alcoholic". Just because you don't lose a job, or don't get a DUI or not violent to others, or drink gallons of booze everyday doesn't mean you don't have a problem with drinking. My father was just like your father. Never lost a job, never received a DUI nor was he ever violent BUT he WAS emotionally and relationally detached from the family and especially from himself due to alcohol. He just "existed" going through the motions of a husband and father giving lip service but never engaging emotionally or relationally with the family. But here is what the "addict" is committed to emotionally and relationally and that is the next "buzz or drunk" that helps them tune out or check out from real life and it's adversities regardless of whether they are an obnoxious violent drunk or an intellectual drunk. The alcoholic separates himself from the non-addict drinker in that the addict has gotten himself to the point from a "sub-conscious" to a "conscious" level of living and focusing on that next 'buzz' or 'drunk' almost everyday if not everyday thus his dysfunctional true love that he is relationally committed to is that vice alcohol/drugs. The addict is consumed by that next fix whereas the non-addicted drinker can take or leave the alcohol at any time and doesn't need to drink at all times especially socially. You find those that have drinking problems don't feel comfortable in their own skin when sober and need a buzz/drunk to feel at ease.

The phrase, "taking some of the edge off" takes on a whole new meaning now doesn't it

Not going is unfair to your kids but they're resilient and will be fine. More importantly, it sends a message to the family and the abuser that you're not going to condone that man and that you aren't joking around about it. You should be careful that your message to your mother is consistent and focused on the abuse, not all the other dynamics of the relationship.

[Bugeater]

Go and just stare at the guy menacingly the entire time.

[tooge]

Originally Posted by Bugeater

Go and just stare at the guy menacingly the entire time.

I thought about just sort of going and being cordial, but I said I wasn't going to support this guy being around until he got treatment, and then, I was going to see it develop slowly. It's been 4 weeks ffs. I even told her I'd be happy to drive up in a few weeks to do lunch with her and maybe someday, I'd come to feel differently about him. I actually liked the guy until I heard how he was treating her. I think I have to stick to my guns here, but hell, I could also be nuts. My brother is going, and my sister is conveniently out of town.

[Nickel D]

I recommend you go if only to talk to the guy with your mama present (and your brothers & sisters as well, if possible) to find out what he specifically plans to do to permanently stop his abusive behavior. Then state he needs to show you all proof that he's attended AA meetings, anger management class,..whatever. Failure to comply and/or further reports of abuse means you won't be coming back until the dude's packed up and gone for good.

[ChiliConCarnage]

I think you made the right choice in not going. The guy lives there so your going essentially endorses their relationship when that isn't how you feel. It's not like you need to kick her out of your life. Invite her over to your place (by herself) for some fun family time next weekend.

I'm not in the once an abuser always an abuser camp (especially if he only has problems when drunk) but alcoholism is a tough disease to kick. If one wife already divorced him over it I'd be pretty surprised if he makes a major life change over being kicked out of the house for a short period.

[htismaqe]

You don't have the right to tell your mother how to live her life.

You DO have the right to tell how you're going to live YOUR OWN. You also have the right to let her know you don't approve of her letting herself be a doormat for a man.

You're absolutely doing the right thing.

[Brock]

I'm not saying anything about your mom, but women who stay in abusive relationships do it because they like it. You're absolutely right to do what you're doing.

[ZepSinger]

I wouldn't take my kids anywhere near that b@stard.

[loochy]

Hit him with some laughing gas while hes not paying attention and pull his teeth.

[Coogs]

Invite her to your house instead.

[Rain Man]

Let's do a scenario analysis. Others can chime in if I'm missing something.


Scenario 1. You go and he goes. You both want to be with your mother on the holiday. You both have equal access, and it shows that he can't control her access. It's a draw until she decides that he has to go.

Scenario 2. You don't go and he goes. It shows him that he can further control your mother just by showing up. He limits her interaction with you, and he wins. I don't think it'll force a long-term breakup, so there's no direct win here other than maybe a short-term win by creating Scenario 3.

Scenario 3. You go and he doesn't go. If he doesn't go at your mother's request, it may put her more at risk for abuse later, though I think it's a long-term win. However, it probably causes her some short-term resentment toward you and won't do anything to solve the long-term problem. It's a win for you, but with some damage.

Scenario 4. You don't go and he doesn't go. Your mom eats a bunch of turkey and falls asleep on the couch during the Lions game.