2018 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018




Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen.

Outfielders:
Dexter Fowler
Tommy Pham
Marcell Ozuna

Infielders:
Matt Carpenter
Paul DeJong
Kolten Wong

Catchers:
Yadier Molina
Francisco Pena

Utility:
Jose Martinez
Greg Garcia
Yairo Munoz
Jedd Gyrko

Starters:
Carlos Martinez
Michael Wacha
Luke Weaver
Miles Mikolas
Jack Flaherty

Relievers:
Dominic Leone
Tyler Lyons
Bud Norris
Brett Cecil
Sam Tuivailala
Matt Bowman
Jordan Hicks
Mike Mayers

On the DL:
Adam Wainwright
Luke Gregerson

[Miles]

And that’s a sweep with Hicks mowing down the 9th.

[kcpasco]

Give Shildt a contract yesterday. 3 years.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Miles

And that’s a sweep with Hicks mowing down the 9th.

Struck out all 3 batters looking in the ninth. On 10 pitches.

This seemed kind of unfair. https://t.co/s5TQKeEKPm

— Jenifer Langosch (@LangoschMLB) August 23, 2018

[BigRedChief]

DJ and Hamas or anyone who would know the behind the scenes stuff...........

Do you think our chances of landing a top FA like Manny, Harper etc. have went up now? It's not about just the winning I'm talking about but how the players seem to be having fun.

The team is still in flyover country, a small media market. But, is the case for recruitment stronger now? Play in front of 40K every night, have fun and win. Is that enough?

[O.city]

Give them the money, they'll sign here.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

DJ and Hamas or anyone who would know the behind the scenes stuff...........

Do you think our chances of landing a top FA like Manny, Harper etc. have went up now? It's not about just the winning I'm talking about but how the players seem to be having fun.

The team is still in flyover country, a small media market. But, is the case for recruitment stronger now? Play in front of 40K every night, have fun and win. Is that enough?

I think Matheny created a toxic environment - seriously, who wants to play for a favorites-playing dick on a declining team?

That's all gone now.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

DJ and Hamas or anyone who would know the behind the scenes stuff...........

Do you think our chances of landing a top FA like Manny, Harper etc. have went up now? It's not about just the winning I'm talking about but how the players seem to be having fun.

The team is still in flyover country, a small media market. But, is the case for recruitment stronger now? Play in front of 40K every night, have fun and win. Is that enough?

Depends on who it is and who you are bidding against, but I would think we are more attractive now than we were in June. I'm not sure that moves the needle for Harper or Machado. You still pursue, but in the end if a guy wants to play with buddy in Chicago or play on the coast in LA or NY, all of those places draw well and Maddon is recognized as a players manager.

Where we blew it was a guy like Scherzer. We can sign FA's, but St. Louis will never be for everyone.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Give them the money, they'll sign here.

For some guys, sure.

For marketable personalities? I'm not so certain of that.

Look at it this way - Mike Trout would dwarf Derek Jeter had he come up as a Yankee. There'd be no way of escaping him. He'd be on every commercial during every sporting event you'd ever see.

Instead he's doing ensemble spots for Subway because he's on the west coast and nobody ever sees him.

If you're Bryce Harper and the Cardinals offer you 10/$350 while the Yankees offer you 10/$275 - I honestly think you take the Yankees offer because you'll make that money and then some through mere exposure. It won't end when you retire either - it'll just keep rolling in as you become a Yankee 'ambassador'. There's a significant financial HoF bump as well (can't remember the figures, but they ain't small) and Harper would get a nice little Yankee Kicker from the sportswriters there. I think if NYY gets anywhere in the ballpark, Harper'd be nuts not to take it.

As for Machado - I think he's perhaps not as outgoing as Harper and may just want to get his money on the field. Well the Phillies will oblige him. Besides - y'all just saw the same series I did; you still excited about him? In the middle of a must-win series he was taking plays off out there. And while I won't accuse him of being largely apathetic, I'd say 'flat affect' accurately describes his countenance in that series.

I'd say eliminating Shildt made a difference and a huge one at that, but only because it took our chances of getting one of those guys from 0% to 1%. I mean from a percentage standpoint that's like, infinity times more likely.

It's like playing powerball - the only ticket that appreciably changes your odds is the first one. From that point forward you could by 100 of the damn things and your odds are still so infinitesimally small that it mathematically you haven't made a dent. That's what we're looking at here.

The only realistic chance they had at a big-ticket guy like that was to trade for him, sell him on the experience and maybe they win in FA. You can't get big money vets to do the trade/sign model anymore (Rolen/Edmonds approach) but you can at least take the Holliday model, give them a chance to appreciate the organization from the inside and then effectively offer to match any bidders.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

For some guys, sure.

For marketable personalities? I'm not so certain of that.

Look at it this way - Mike Trout would dwarf Derek Jeter had he come up as a Yankee. There'd be no way of escaping him. He'd be on every commercial during every sporting event you'd ever see.

Instead he's doing ensemble spots for Subway because he's on the west coast and nobody ever sees him.

If you're Bryce Harper and the Cardinals offer you 10/$350 while the Yankees offer you 10/$275 - I honestly think you take the Yankees offer because you'll make that money and then some through mere exposure. It won't end when you retire either - it'll just keep rolling in as you become a Yankee 'ambassador'.

As for Machado - I think he's perhaps not as outgoing as Harper and may just want to get his money on the field. Well the Phillies will oblige him. Besides - y'all just saw the same series I did; you still excited about him? In the middle of a must-win series he was taking plays off out there. And while I won't accuse him of being largely apathetic, I'd say 'flat affect' accurately describes his countenance in that series.

I'd say eliminating Shildt made a difference and a huge one at that, but only because it took our chances of getting one of those guys from 0% to 1%. I mean from a percentage standpoint that's like, infinity times more likely.

It's like playing powerball - the only ticket that appreciably changes your odds is the first one. From that point forward you could by 100 of the damn things and your odds are still so infinitesimally small that it mathematically you haven't made a dent. That's what we're looking at here.

The only realistic chance they had at a big-ticket guy like that was to trade for him, sell him on the experience and maybe they win in FA. You can't get big money vets to do the trade/sign model anymore (Rolen/Edmonds approach) but you can at least take the Holliday model, give them a chance to appreciate the organization from the inside and then effectively offer to match any bidders.

True. When you're talking about the normal free agent, money talks.

The upper ticket guys like this, you're probably right.

Although Harper hasn't exactly set he world on fire this year so maybe he could be had cheaper and with social media and media in general, the world is a lot smaller.

Granted when you're talking Yankees and Cubs, that's tough to compete with eyes wise.

[O.city]

I also think we kind of overrate the reach or impact of baseball marketing etc. It just doesn't have the appeal of football or basketball.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

True. When you're talking about the normal free agent, money talks.

The upper ticket guys like this, you're probably right.

Although Harper hasn't exactly set he world on fire this year so maybe he could be had cheaper and with social media and media in general, the world is a lot smaller.

Granted when you're talking Yankees and Cubs, that's tough to compete with eyes wise.

The narrative around Bryce Harper never ceases to amaze me.

For the first month of the season he was the best hitter in baseball. Over the last month to 6 weeks of the season he's been arguably the best hitter in baseball.

And I'm supposed to listen to someone that says Harrison Bader has been better than Harper because of WAR?

In a year where he experience the most goddamn bizarre 10 week stretch of his career where he would literally swing at anything and was getting crushed by outside pitches that he'd been driving his whole career, he's putting up a .900 OPS. He'll challenge 40 HRs and a 100/100 season. A lost half-season and he's still going to have a season's worth of stats that rival damn near anybody's.

Bryce Harper is one of the most dangerous players in baseball. He's a lineup altering presence who plays with passion and loves the game.

If I'm the Yankees - hell if I'm the Cardinals and I can throw money at him to get him here - I find a way to make it work.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I also think we kind of overrate the reach or impact of baseball marketing etc. It just doesn't have the appeal of football or basketball.

Why not? FFS football players are in helmets.

I get that baseball is a more regional sport so oftentimes national marketing isn't as effective, but it wasn't ALWAYS that way. And that again speaks to the Yankee effect; Jeter has always had a major national presence.

Beyond that, let's presume only regional impact - then aren't you all the better served by going to major media markets where YOUR fans will want to see you in commercials? At that point, more TVs is better. Get yourself to NYY.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Why not? FFS football players are in helmets.

I get that baseball is a more regional sport so oftentimes national marketing isn't as effective, but it wasn't ALWAYS that way. And that again speaks to the Yankee effect; Jeter has always had a major national presence.

Beyond that, let's presume only regional impact - then aren't you all the better served by going to major media markets where YOUR fans will want to see you in commercials? At that point, more TVs is better. Get yourself to NYY.

I mean, if that's the case, everyone should be in NY right?

Football just has such a larger audience. Hell, look at Russell Wilson. He's in Seattle and he's a national dude.

The Yankees will always have a bigger audience, you'd think, but same with Chicago, who has all these young stars. They just don't seem to be a national thing at this point, and not many Yankees are either.

[jd1020]

The Bryzzo souvenir company isn't national... Its international.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I mean, if that's the case, everyone should be in NY right?

Football just has such a larger audience. Hell, look at Russell Wilson. He's in Seattle and he's a national dude.

The Yankees will always have a bigger audience, you'd think, but same with Chicago, who has all these young stars. They just don't seem to be a national thing at this point, and not many Yankees are either.

Not everyone.

Just everyone with an insane Q rating and guys like Harper have that.

For just about anyone else I'd tell them to go anyplace BUT New York. The pressure isn't worth it unless the ancillary benefits of being some sort of Prince of Gotham outweigh it.

Giancarlo Stanton ****ed up, IMO. He's not a spotlight player and he's not a guy who gets enough out of the NY exposure to offset the ridiculous pressure. Harper, OTOH, would. So would Trout. The Astros have guys like Correa and Altuve who are absurdly personable who might.

We're talking about rarified air here - incredible players who peg the meter on the ol' Q rating scale. There aren't many of those. For everyone else, I'd say take the biggest check and the least pressure.