How does Dwayne Bowe rank among the elite WR's?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sorry, didn't want this getting overlooked in the other thread. Then again, people will probably ignore it anyway - I know some of you will appreciate this.


I keep seeing people say that Dwayne Bowe isn't an elite WR. So I decided to do some research to see how he matches up statistically over his 5 years in the league.

What I found, is that statistically, Bowe is the 10th best WR of the last 5 years.

I found 9 other WR's that either had better yardage totals, better TD numbers or both. He was 10th in yardage, tied for 6th in TD's.

Here's the list. (Yardage/TD's) Bolded players have fewer or same TD's as Bowe.


Larry Fitzgerald - 6480/49

Roddy White - 6422/42

Reggie Wayne - 6234/36

Wes Welker - 6105/31

Calvin Johnson - 5872/49

Andre Johnson - 5703/35

Greg Jennings - 5539/46

Steve Smith - 5353/29

Marques Colston - 5202/40

Dwayne Bowe - 4927/36


Personally, I think that's impressive on its own.

Especially when you consider the only guy on this list who is younger is Megatron. I'd be curious to see how he matches up to the same players during each of their first 5 seasons.

Anyway, when you compare Bowe's number's to the #1 yardage and #1 TD's - he's not nearly as far off as it seems.

It comes down to 19.41 yard a game, and .16 TD's per game.

Factor in that Bowe is missing something the other 9 have - solid QB play.

After looking at this, its hard for me to say Dwayne Bowe is NOT an elite WR, considering how his numbers match up to the "elite" and never having the benefit of decent QB play.

I'm pretty confident in saying that with solid QB play, Bowe would easily make up 19.41 yards and .16 TD's a game.

Like him or not, he's an elite WR - and has shown it over his 5 years in the league.

Dude deserved elite money.

Or, tl;dr - **** him.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by BossChief

why?

He had the same production when we were in the top 11 as when we were in the bottom 6.
.

Yeah, and it's also clear he's a much better player now. He was merely "good" in 07 and 08. He's been elite in 2010 and 2011.

If Bowe was in Atlanta the last two years, 1500 yards, easy. We're talking a giant gap in pass attempts and QB play.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by Toad King

Cardinals pass attempts by year during Fitz's career.

#13
#1
#7
#2
#2
#3
#11
#15

Chiefs pass attempts by year during Bowe's career.

#11
#9
#18
#29
#26

I bet Bowe would be regarded as "TRULY ELITE" if he switched teams.

What rb's did the cards have?

[milkman]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Fitz is truly elite. He has out up unbelievable numbers with crap quarterbacks (sans the time with Warner)

In his career, Larry Fitzgerald has averaged 13.9 ypc.

Andre Johnson, 13.7

Roddy White, 13.9

Dwayne Bowe, 13.8

And seriously, how many are better when you get the ball to them in positon to do something with it?

[Chiefnj2]

The last 2 years with poor QB's Fitz averaged 85 receptions and 7 TDs. Bowe had an average of 76 rec and 10 TDs. Fitz had a lot more yards, but was targeted a lot more.

I still think Fitz is better than Bowe, but their production with all things considered isn't as far off as people would think.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by petegz28

What rb's did the cards have?

Why does it god damn ****ing matter, you idiot?

If you put Bowe in Arizona with no RBs they're gonna throw to him a lot more.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by BigRock

This is the complete opposite of what I'm doing.

The people pulling out every stat they can think of are the people trying to making the case that he's elite. I don't care what his numbers are. A guy can play with someone like Drew Brees and put up a bunch of yards and TDs, it doesn't make him an elite player. It makes him a guy in a good situation. On the other hand, a guy can play with shit around him and still be a beast. You can be an elite player and not have huge stats.

The very first thing I said in this thread is that if you have to look at a bunch of numbers to make the case that a guy is elite, then he's probably not. And that's all that's going on here.

We all watch Bowe play. If we're being honest, we all know that outside of his one great year in 2010, the games where Bowe went beast, the games where you'd watch him and turn to your buddy and go "Holy shit! I'd put him right up there with the best in the league!" -- which is what it means to be elite -- are far less common than the games where he was simply good.

It's like I'm insulting Bowe that I'm not saying he's elite. He's a VERY GOOD receiver. The best one the Chiefs have had since the Hoover administration. He's right in that group under the elite. He deserves every penny he can squeeze out of Clark. I have said all of this more than once.

He's just not an elite player. If he was an elite player, you could mention him in the same breath as other elite players. Megatron, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson... Dwayne Bowe. Bit of a drop there.

And even the people saying Bowe is elite seem to admit this. They just want to expand the category of "elite" so it has multiple tiers, where Bowe can be included but still be ranked below the guys who actually ARE elite. Except doing that sort of defeats the whole purpose.

Do your homework and get some statistics to back up your claims, son.

You're being put to shame in this thread without'em.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by BigRock

This is the complete opposite of what I'm doing.

The people pulling out every stat they can think of are the people trying to making the case that he's elite. I don't care what his numbers are. A guy can play with someone like Drew Brees and put up a bunch of yards and TDs, it doesn't make him an elite player. It makes him a guy in a good situation. On the other hand, a guy can play with shit around him and still be a beast. You can be an elite player and not have huge stats.

The very first thing I said in this thread is that if you have to look at a bunch of numbers to make the case that a guy is elite, then he's probably not. And that's all that's going on here.

We all watch Bowe play. If we're being honest, we all know that outside of his one great year in 2010, the games where Bowe went beast, the games where you'd watch him and turn to your buddy and go "Holy shit! I'd put him right up there with the best in the league!" -- which is what it means to be elite -- are far less common than the games where he was simply good.

It's like I'm insulting Bowe that I'm not saying he's elite. He's a VERY GOOD receiver. The best one the Chiefs have had since the Hoover administration. He's right in that group under the elite. He deserves every penny he can squeeze out of Clark. I have said all of this more than once.

He's just not an elite player. If he was an elite player, you could mention him in the same breath as other elite players. Megatron, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson... Dwayne Bowe. Bit of a drop there.

And even the people saying Bowe is elite seem to admit this. They just want to expand the category of "elite" so it has multiple tiers, where Bowe can be included but still be ranked below the guys who actually ARE elite. Except doing that sort of defeats the whole purpose.

Exactly as I've been saying. He's second tier. Period. Elite is a very small group. It is a group that defines itself. It isn't based on the sample size, it's based on who belongs, and you can't expand the group to accommodate Bowe. He's second tier.

[Hammock Parties]

Roddy White got paid.

Bowe should get paid.

They are in the same tier.

Unless you think Roddy White is as good as Fitz and Megatron.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by Toad King

Why does it god damn ****ing matter, you idiot?

If you put Bowe in Arizona with no RBs they're gonna throw to him a lot more.

I dont know why. Guess i figure a team with a top running game would tend to throw the ball less. Thus the cards having more pass attempts

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by petegz28

I dont know why. Guess i figure a team with a top running game would tend to throw the ball less.

This is an argument in favor of Bowe, you realize.

(you don't)

[milkman]

Originally Posted by BigRock

This is the complete opposite of what I'm doing.

The people pulling out every stat they can think of are the people trying to making the case that he's elite. I don't care what his numbers are. A guy can play with someone like Drew Brees and put up a bunch of yards and TDs, it doesn't make him an elite player. It makes him a guy in a good situation. On the other hand, a guy can play with shit around him and still be a beast. You can be an elite player and not have huge stats.

The very first thing I said in this thread is that if you have to look at a bunch of numbers to make the case that a guy is elite, then he's probably not. And that's all that's going on here.

We all watch Bowe play. If we're being honest, we all know that outside of his one great year in 2010, the games where Bowe went beast, the games where you'd watch him and turn to your buddy and go "Holy shit! I'd put him right up there with the best in the league!" -- which is what it means to be elite -- are far less common than the games where he was simply good.

It's like I'm insulting Bowe that I'm not saying he's elite. He's a VERY GOOD receiver. The best one the Chiefs have had since the Hoover administration. He's right in that group under the elite. He deserves every penny he can squeeze out of Clark. I have said all of this more than once.

He's just not an elite player. If he was an elite player, you could mention him in the same breath as other elite players. Megatron, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson... Dwayne Bowe. Bit of a drop there.

And even the people saying Bowe is elite seem to admit this. They just want to expand the category of "elite" so it has multiple tiers, where Bowe can be included but still be ranked below the guys who actually ARE elite. Except doing that sort of defeats the whole purpose.

No, what's being done is showing numbers that support the argument that Bowe is an elite WR.

The only two receivers in the league right now that I would definitely want more than Bowe is Fitz and Calvin Johnson.

I don't need to see numbers to recognize that.

I see what Bowe has done, and see that he's capable of so much more with a better QB situation.

You can make the argument that guys like Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Greg Jennings, etc are better.

But you can also make the argument, like OTWP has made, that there is not a receiver that has done more with less at QB than Bowe.

There isn't a single position in all of sports that is so reliant on another position.

Bowe has elite talent.

He has crap that allows him to fully display that talent.

[jspchief]

Can't wait until Johnny Morton is our best WR and you guys are easing the pain by telling me "at least Clark didn't overspend on Bowe by 2m per year".

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by Toad King

This is an argument in favor of Bowe, you realize.

(you don't)

You quoted pass attempts between two teams. One with a upper echelon running game and one with dick for a running game.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by petegz28

You quoted pass attempts between two teams. One with a upper echelon running game and one with dick for a running game.

The year the Saints won the SB, their running game was among the league's best.

But they passed the ball a ton.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Toad King

Roddy White got paid.

Bowe should get paid.

They are in the same tier.

Unless you think Roddy White is as good as Fitz and Megatron.

Six-year, $48 million contract. The deal contains $18.6 million guaranteed.

Thats Roddy's contract. He's likely to see every penny but that's a far cry from where Bowe is seemingly fishing.