Miss Universe Canada used to be a "MISTER"-disqualified

[scho63]

When I first saw the pictures of her/him I didn't realize it used to be a dude. How freaky!

YIKES!!!


Miss Universe Canada Disqualifies Transsexual Contestant: She was Born a Boy

http://shine.yahoo.com/beauty/miss-u...192000420.html

Miss Universe Canada officials have banned 23-year-old transsexual Jenna Talackova from participating in the pageant finals to be held in Toronto in May, 2012. The Vancouver contestant was one of sixty-five women chosen to compete in the national contest (which is owned by Donald Trump). The Daily Mail Reports that Denis Davila, national director of Miss Universe Canada, asserts that every contestant must be a "naturally born female." Critics of the decision claim that the rules do not specifically address sex change or plastic surgery.

The statuesque blonde Talackova is calling it a human rights issue. She says that she knew she was a girl by age four, started hormone therapy at fourteen, and had sex reassignment surgery at nineteen. She's previously competed in both transsexual and women's beauty pageants. "All I can say is that they disqualified me because I'm not 'natural born,' she told the National Post. "[That] doesn't make sense because since I was conscious, I always felt this way."

After being kicked out of the pageant, Talackova, whose twitter account has since been locked, tweeted, "I'm disqualified, however I'm not giving up. I'm not going to just let them disqualify me over discrimination." Online support for the beauty queen is growing. So far, over twenty-one thousand people have signed a petition demanding she be allowed to compete. It reads, "She is a woman and deserves to be treated as any other woman would be."
Talackova, who says she is not doing interviews until she consults a lawyer, describes herself as, "a woman with a past."

[loochy]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/5/2034.full

"hurdurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, there are absolutely zero potential biological factors contributing to transsexuality. I know this because I have extensive experience in the medical and psychiatric fields. ALSO I EAT POOP." - saphojunkie

In that case, would you be interested in a POOPTACO?

[loochy]

PEYTON MANNING?

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Who are you to say what should bring others happiness or peace? She could be far happier living her life as the person she is now compared to trying to live her life according to what you feel should make her happy.

Could be, sure.

However, the odds are that there is a much much more complex psychological event occuring for such a drastic alteration to have been undergone. The idea that those feelings are based on makeup, boobs, dresses, and a penis is literally the most superficial explanation of a very complicated issue.

If I'm convinced that my brand new house smells exactly like my mother's funeral, and no matter what I do to cover the smell, it's still there....you think the solution is tearing down the house? Or MAYBE the problem is in my own head?

I'm a really ****ing liberal person. I don't think GLBT people are any less deserving of rights, respect, and civility than anyone else.

My problem with transgender is that it only addresses the skin. What's happening in these people is mental. It ain't physical. They're seeing the wrong type of doctor.

Face it. This dude is no more a woman now than he ever was. His gender was created in his mind. He'll never grow ovaries. He'll never have fallopian tubes. He cannot, ever ever ever ever ever ever ever have XX chromosomes.

He's a dude, and nothing will ever change that.

So instead of mutilating his body in an effort to look a certain way, MAYBE he should try coming to terms with the stark reality of the situation.

But hey, if he's happy, so be it. I just feel bad for these people so desperate to escape themselves. Isn't it tragic to spend your life battling inadequacy over something A) you had no hand in deciding; and B) you can never truly change?

I'm not pissed I wasn't born with Lebron James' physical tools. I'm 5'10 with a negative-30 inch vertical for a reason. That's my job to figure out why.

[loochy]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

I'm not pissed I wasn't born with Lebron James' physical tools. I'm 5'10 with a negative-30 inch vertical for a reason. That's my job to figure out why.

negroplasty my friend, negroplasty

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/5/2034.full

"hurdurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, there are absolutely zero potential biological factors contributing to transsexuality. I know this because I have extensive experience in the medical and psychiatric fields. ALSO I EAT POOP." - saphojunkie

"Durrr I fabricate statements and argue against them. I'm the winner!"

I never said there were zero biological factors. That's the first time I have ever said those words together.

[Ultra Peanut]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

I'm a really ****ing liberal person. I don't think GLBT people are any less deserving of rights, respect, and civility than anyone else.

My problem with transgender is that it only addresses the skin. What's happening in these people is mental. It ain't physical. They're seeing the wrong type of doctor.

Face it. This dude is no more a woman now than he ever was. His gender was created in his mind. He'll never grow ovaries. He'll never have fallopian tubes. He cannot, ever ever ever ever ever ever ever have XX chromosomes.

He's a dude, and nothing will ever change that.

So instead of mutilating his body in an effort to look a certain way, MAYBE he should try coming to terms with the stark reality of the situation.

But hey, if he's happy, so be it. I just feel bad for these people so desperate to escape themselves. Isn't it tragic to spend your life battling inadequacy over something A) you had no hand in deciding; and B) you can never truly change?

The problem is physical. The solution is physical. Changing someone's IDENTITY is a way harder task than than getting their body more in line with how their brain has always expected it to be.

Know how I know this? I'm trans. The issues surrounding transsexuality have dominated my thoughts since I was a kid. I'd venture to guess that I've spent more time thinking about and learning about this than you've spent thinking about anything in your entire life.

I live the life you're speculating about, and you're completely ****ing wrong in every imaginable way. She knew who she was from the time she was a toddler (like me; though that's not every single trans person's experience, by any means). She also knew what she wasn't. She took a huge, terrifying step to fix these issues, and your "liberal, glbt-friendly" and not at all self-congratulatory position is insulting as hell, not just because of your forceful ignorance or terrible opinions but because you're so goddamned smug about them.

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

It's so wacky that I dropped out of school when I was 11 because I was harassed every single day for being too feminine. It's so wacky that I spent the decade between that time and when I finally got desperate enough to transition (without any medical or social support system whatsoever, given that I was stuck in the rural south at the time) in a fog of near-daily suicidal ideation and hopelessness about my chances of ever having people know my real self.

It was a laugh-a-minute existence, definitely. I certainly didn't lose a huge chunk of my formative years hiding from the world because I saw how ****ing stupid people became every time something relating to trans people came up. I was scared of anyone finding out because I thought the shame and alienation would genuinely be worse than death.

I got lucky with both the physical side of transition and my family's response to it, and being trans isn't really the constant painful focus of every single waking moment anymore. It's really nice interacting with people in a way that doesn't feel bizarre or dishonest (which is how it felt every single time I interacted with people while pretending to be some aloof guy).

But despite that, I still have to worry about people finding out and ruining my social life or worse. What if that 6'4" 300 pound dude who always hits on me found out? Would he fly into a rage to defend his masculinity after finding out he'd expressed interest in a "dude"?

Do you understand how goddamned painful it is watching uninformed people with zero lived experience with trans issues spouting decades-old tropes every single time a trans person either comes out or gets outed? Do you know what it's like knowing that the absolute worst part of your life will affect every single interaction with most people the moment they learn about it?

I'm not a freak, I'm not a joke, I'm not trying to fool people. I'm trying to get through my life with a face I actually recognize as myself, a body that doesn't make me want to die every waking moment of every single day, and relationships with other people that don't feel hollow and fake. Being trans and accomplishing those things, which most people take for granted, is an incredibly long, difficult, and painful experience. You lose family, friends (my best friend at the time when I came out stopped talking to me), career opportunities, and even years after the fact, if people find out there's a pretty good chance you lose every right they ever thought you had to dignity or basic human decency. All of that suffering and struggling for something better becomes fodder for tired-ass punchlines we've all heard hundreds of times before.

But hey, what are insanely high rates of dying via suicide/murder and years upon years of pain (and hopefully a little bit of triumph) if not a perfect backdrop the same decades-old remarks people make every single time they're reminded of the existence of trans people? Set sail for wackiness!


a) Cool thing she's not and never was a "man." Especially since she transitioned at 14 (and was presumably on testosterone blockers well before that, given how together her shit must have been to transition at 14; or maybe she self-medded out of desperation, who knows; worked for me).
b) After a couple of years of hormone replacement therapy your ability to build muscle/lose weight falls well within normal ranges of your target gender (so trans dudes grow facial hair* and get MAD HORNY and gain the capacity to get ripped and whatnot, while trans women lose a significant amount of physical strength -- I was puny before, but now? hahaha oh god it's pathetic -- and experience the joys of female body fat distribution and increased difficulty losing weight). Hormones are pretty ****in' powerful.
c) Those boobs you guys are ogling (don't worry, I won't tell anyone) have a pretty strong chance of being naturally grown, especially since she started at 14. Though given that she's competing in a beauty pageant, who knows; point is that she almost certainly didn't need surgery; bodies just do that shit when given the right mix of hormones. Bodies are mega adaptable.

*No, seriously. Every single one of them.

It sounds awful. Really awful.

Please note, however, that the bulk of your story points to the reactions of other people that drove you to this point.

Also, it doesn't sound as if you feel any more honest at this point than you did when you looked like a man and felt like a woman. You still have to hide your true self.

That sucks. All of that work, and you still are living a fearful existence. Would have you have had gender reassignment if you were open and accepted with your sexuality from a young age? would have felt the need to escape if the rural South were a super ****ing open and tolerant and accepting place that embraced all of your individuality?

This isn't rhetorical.

I'm asking.

[Frazod]

Seriously, UP, why did you even click on this thread? Do you not know what this board is like after all these years? Perhaps it's your goal to be butthurt and offended, but I'd like to think you have more constructive things to do with your life.

thread tools>ignore thread

Works for all the goddamn beaker basketball threads. I recommend it highly.

[Ultra Peanut]

Like, do you think people ****ing WANT to go through all of this? Do you think people wouldn't just go to therapy and "learn to deal with it" if that were something that actually worked? Reparative therapy has been a spectacular failure, as opposed to transition and surgery and all of that fun stuff, which actually has a fantastic success rate when compared to treatments for other psychological and medical issues.

People transition because, by and large? It works. It makes your life better. It's still unbelievably ****ing hard to exist in this ignorant society as a trans person, but it's so much ****ing better than being cripplingly depressed by your own reflection from the time you were a child.

Originally Posted by frazod

Seriously, UP, why did you even click on this thread? Do you not know what this board is like after all these years? Perhaps it's your goal to be butthurt and offended, but I'd like to think you have more constructive things to do with your life.

thread tools>ignore thread

Works for all the goddamn beaker basketball threads. I recommend it highly.

Because maybe -- and this is a crazy notion, I know -- someone will read a paragraph or two of the words I'm desperately throwing out to fight the surge of stupidity, and they'll learn one or two little things about trans people and their lives that they'd never realized before.

That's why I expose myself to shit like "does she pee standing up?" and "DUDE LOOKS LIKE A LADY" (oh man, like that song from several decades ago!) and "she's a man, baby" (oh hey like that movie!) and "he/she" and "shemale" and "tranny," even though all of that stuff is unbelievably distressing and painful to read.

I guess I'm an optimist.

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

The problem is physical. The solution is physical. Changing someone's IDENTITY is a way harder task than than getting their body more in line with how their brain has always expected it to be.

Know how I know this? I'm trans. The issues surrounding transsexuality have dominated my thoughts since I was a kid. I guaran-****ing-tee you I've spent more time thinking about and learning about this than you have. I live the life you're speculating about, and you're completely ****ing wrong in every imaginable way.

She knew who she was from the time she was a toddler (like me; though that's not every single trans person's experience, by any means). She also knew what she wasn't. She took a huge, terrifying step to fix these issues, and your "liberal, glbt-friendly" and not at all self-congratulatory position is insulting as hell, not just because of your forceful ignorance or terrible opinions but because you're so goddamned smug about them.

Yeah, that must make it the right decision. It's easier.

Oh, and anyone who disagrees with your position is a raging hate-monger holding "God hates F*gs" signs at funerals. It can't possibly be that someone educated and interested in the topic could ever have any opinion on it different from yours, despite the fact that YOUR opinion dictates that anyone without the resources to cut their bodies into fabrications are just screwed and they can never come to terms with their identities. That seems logical.

[Rain Man]

Question for everyone. Other than being further along the continuum of change, how is a sex change different than doing something like losing a whole lot of weight or working out and getting very buff?

In all of those cases, it seems to me like a person looks in the mirror and says, "This isn't who I really am". The guy who weighs 500 pounds and goes down to 175 is creating a massive change in identity, but he's probably not viewing it as a change as much as coming into line with who he thinks he is. Maybe with a bodybuilder it's a little more ego-driven, but it's the same thing. And based on what we read (and what UP says), it seems like a person who does gender reassignment is probably not viewing it so much as a change but as coming into alignment with who they are.

[Stewie]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

It's so wacky that I dropped out of school when I was 11 because I was harassed every single day for being too feminine. It's so wacky that I spent the decade between that time and when I finally got desperate enough to transition (without any medical or social support system whatsoever, given that I was stuck in the rural south at the time) in a fog of near-daily suicidal ideation and hopelessness about my chances of ever having people know my real self.

It was a laugh-a-minute existence, definitely. I certainly didn't lose a huge chunk of my formative years hiding from the world because I saw how ****ing stupid people became every time something relating to trans people came up. I was scared of anyone finding out because I thought the shame and alienation would genuinely be worse than death.

I got lucky with both the physical side of transition and my family's response to it, and being trans isn't really the constant painful focus of every single waking moment anymore. It's really nice interacting with people in a way that doesn't feel bizarre or dishonest (which is how it felt every single time I interacted with people while pretending to be some aloof guy).

But despite that, I still have to worry about people finding out and ruining my social life or worse. What if that 6'4" 300 pound dude who always hits on me found out? Would he fly into a rage to defend his masculinity after finding out he'd expressed interest in a "dude"?

Do you understand how goddamned painful it is watching uninformed people with zero lived experience with trans issues spouting decades-old tropes every single time a trans person either comes out or gets outed? Do you know what it's like knowing that the absolute worst part of your life will affect every single interaction with most people the moment they learn about it?

I'm not a freak, I'm not a joke, I'm not trying to fool people. I'm trying to get through my life with a face I actually recognize as myself, a body that doesn't make me want to die every waking moment of every single day, and relationships with other people that don't feel hollow and fake. Being trans and accomplishing those things, which most people take for granted, is an incredibly long, difficult, and painful experience. You lose family, friends (my best friend at the time when I came out stopped talking to me), career opportunities, and even years after the fact, if people find out there's a pretty good chance you lose every right they ever thought you had to dignity or basic human decency. All of that suffering and struggling for something better becomes fodder for tired-ass punchlines we've all heard hundreds of times before.

But hey, what are insanely high rates of dying via suicide/murder and years upon years of pain (and hopefully a little bit of triumph) if not a perfect backdrop the same decades-old remarks people make every single time they're reminded of the existence of trans people? Set sail for wackiness!

Excellent post UP.

I used to work with a transgendered woman and she still works in our field and I see her occasionally. She went through change in the 80s, so it was much more misunderstood back then, if that's possible.

She had the full support of her family and after some awkwardness at work she was accepted as Jamie (formerly James). She was absolutely up front about the situation and I think that helped people understand what was going on. There were still some people that couldn't get it through their fat head, but that was their problem.

She was in our golf league for years and when her playing partner couldn't play on a given day her nephews couldn't wait to play with Aunt Jamie.

[loochy]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Question for everyone. Other than being further along the continuum of change, how is a sex change different than doing something like losing a whole lot of weight or working out and getting very buff?

Because that's a natural process. I see it more along the lines of breast implants / botox / lipo / nosejobs / etc.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

Because maybe -- and this is a crazy notion, I know -- someone will read a paragraph or two of the words I'm desperately throwing out to fight the surge of stupidity, and they'll learn one or two little things about trans people and their lives that they'd never realized before.

That's why I expose myself to shit like "does she pee standing up?" and "DUDE LOOKS LIKE A LADY" (oh man, like that song from several decades ago!) and "she's a man, baby" (oh hey like that movie!) and "he/she" and "shemale" and "tranny," even though all of that stuff is unbelievably distressing and painful to read.

I guess I'm an optimist.

Well, good luck with that.

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

Like, do you think people WANT to ****ing go through all of this? Do you think people wouldn't just go to therapy and "learn to deal with it" if that were something that actually worked? Reparative therapy has been a spectacular failure, as opposed to transition and surgery and all of that fun stuff, which actually has a fantastic success rate when compared to treatments for other psychological and medical issues.

Because maybe -- and this is a ****ing crazy notion, I know -- someone will read a paragraph or two of the words I'm desperately throwing out to fight the surge of stupidity, and they'll learn one or two little things about trans people and their lives that they'd never realized before.

You have absolutely no idea why I've come to my opinions. You have absolutely no idea what my sexual identity is. You have no idea who I am, what I have dealt with, or what bias I have endured, and why.

You just assume that anyone who disagrees with you forms their opinion from ignorance and is stupid and needs to be educated.

Oh, and for the record, the reason this story is funny is that it was a ****ING PAGEANT QUEEN. It's not like the thread is "ha this random dood chopped off his junk - laugh at him.