Chiefs **** BOB SUTTON - Page 29

Chris Meck · 09-16-2018, 02:31 PM

That's it.
You got major upgrades in the front seven. The corners were not the problem today. Guys running free underneath all ****ing day. NO PASS RUSH, rushing two and three guys and Steeler receivers STILL RUNNING FREE UNDERNEATH. Everytime we blitzed, we rushed the throw. Everytime we didn't, Roethlisberger had all ****ing day. No excuse to rush two and three against a HOF QB.

You got younger, and faster. It's not all on the players. It's the scheme. It leaves the defense on the field until they're gassed and give up the big play.

If the scheme is too complicated for your secondary to run, then CHANGE THE SCHEME.

You have an offense that can score at will. Play aggressive and make them match you big play for big play. blitz, pressure, force them to make a big play or a mistake. Sitting back in loose zones all day is NOT WORKING.

**** Sutton.

philfree · 10-09-2018, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Ah...

I guess we'll stay at the bottom of the league in defense because you can't teach tackling to kids after this many years either. I suspect the players know the basics of a form tackle and how to wrap up, they just work for an organization that allows it to continue. They get paid the same no mater what, right? That's pretty darn dynamic...

We're not at the bottom. We need to be better but we're 20th in points allowed right now.

htismaqe · 10-09-2018, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

We're not at the bottom. We need to be better but we're 20th in points allowed right now.

Points allowed don't matter. They're not Gunther Strong so they suck.

GloryDayz · 10-09-2018, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

This many years?

In Reid's first 4 years they were 7th, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th in scoring defense.

This what I'm talking about. You're emoting, not thinking.

This team is 5-0 and currently the toast of the league. But because the defense isn't "gleamy" enough for you, they're "bottom feeders".

You're excusing a bottom-feeding D. How long since our epic loss to Indy? Jan 4th, 2014? They gave up a 28-point lead in 2014... Yeah, that's years.

https://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/sto...by-team-010414

GloryDayz · 10-09-2018, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Personally, I love great defense (I am a Chiefs fan, after all). I am a defensive homer through and through. It's gone, though. The way it used to be is no more and probably never will be again.

The NFL wants lots of scoring (because it equates to better ratings), so offense gets the rules and defense gets the shaft. That's the way it is.

But does that mean we should say "oh well" and be satisfied with the way this defense is performing? I say "No! By God, No!" Then I say, "Aaggaghhh!". IMO, our defense has sucked in very obvious areas ... particularly against the run, safety play, and our tackling is definitely awful. (The fact that tackling sucks league-wide is another discussion and no excuse, in my view.)

We need better players but we don't have them (as far as we know). All Uncle Bob can do is try and play the hand he's dealt and I don't envy him that job. At all.

I don't believe for a moment that people (like me) who are pushing back on the Fire Sutton cry are satisfied with poor defensive play. And I don't think we're making excuses. I try to see things objectively and make a distinction between the cause and the disease.

We have a disease, but the cause isn't "Sutton". And the cure isn't "Fire Sutton". That's the point I try to get across.

FAX

I'm not asking for the #1 D, I never said that, but we're getting a recurring bottom feeder instead.

GloryDayz · 10-09-2018, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

We're not at the bottom. We need to be better but we're 20th in points allowed right now.

Here's the "Total" defense. It looks like we're in the lower half of the bottom third.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/t...sition/defense

htismaqe · 10-09-2018, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

You're excusing a bottom-feeding D. How long since our epic loss to Indy? Jan 4th, 2014? They gave up a 28-point lead in 2014... Yeah, that's years.

https://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/sto...by-team-010414

Alex Smith mustered a whole 6 points after the Colts scored their first touchdown of the game. SIX. And he fumbled right into one of their 4th quarter scores.

There's plenty of blame to go around that game. If that's what you're clinging to to suggest Bob has been bad "for years", you're once again emoting and not being rational.

htismaqe · 10-09-2018, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I'm not asking for the #1 D, I never said that, but we're getting a recurring bottom feeder instead.

Nope.

Not a recurring bottom feeder. This year is the first they've been in the lowest quarter of defensive percentages, and even then it's only in yardage.

In case you haven't noticed, the entire NFL is giving up huge chunks of yardage.

ChiefsCountry · 10-09-2018, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Here's the "Total" defense. It looks like we're in the lower half of the bottom third.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/t...sition/defense

We give up a bunch of yards. That is because we are way the **** ahead the whole game and they have to play catch up. Points allowed is the only stat that matters when it comes to defense.

FAX · 10-09-2018, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I'm not asking for the #1 D, I never said that, but we're getting a recurring bottom feeder instead.

I never said you said that before you said that and I still haven't said it.

Are we "bottom feeders"? Maybe. Maybe not.

On the other hand, if the fishkeeper has nothing but Plaice in his aquarium because all his Fantail Guppy's fins fell off, what's a guy supposed to do?

FAX

philfree · 10-09-2018, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Here's the "Total" defense. It looks like we're in the lower half of the bottom third.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/t...sition/defense

Total Defense? You mean yards? I don't care about yards as much as points. And a lot of those yards are garbage yards because we had a huge lead.

DJ's left nut · 10-09-2018, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

We give up a bunch of yards. That is because we are way the **** ahead the whole game and they have to play catch up. Points allowed is the only stat that matters when it comes to defense.

The NFL average is around 7.1 yards per pass and teams are throwing the ball damn near 50 times/gm against us. We're gonna give up yards, fellas. A shitload of them, in fact.

I do think that long term, yards allowed is a more reliably predictive measure than points allowed and that's of some concern. We won't continue to get 5 turnovers and that many sacks to suppress our points totals. But we'll probably continue to give up a lot of yards.

The hope is that, as has been the case thus far, those yards come when the game is decided. The defense has come up strong in big ways several times this year and there are signs that it's going to continue to improve. If the last 2 weeks are a baseline of what the defense can do, that's enough to win with.

That said - I'd probably sit Houston this week and just be prepared to take a whupin' on D. See if Mahomes can outscore Brady and get Houston healthy. The last thing we need is another Berry situation (or another Houston from '16 situation). Get him right and move forward. I'd rather not lose this game but winning in Foxboro is a tough ask either way and if we do, it won't be because of the D anyway.

**Lzen** · 10-09-2018, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

It's very simple - you are putting WAY too much emphasis on coaching. I'm not saying Sutton is good or bad, I'm saying he's irrelevant. A good coach CANNOT make a bad unit good. It's impossible.

Until they fix the personnel on this defense, there isn't a coach on the face of the planet that can fix things.

You are correct to a certain extent. You're correct in that a great coordinator can't make bad talent into a great defense. That being said, I believe a great coordinator can make a mediocre defense good and a good defensive coordinator can make a good defense great. So by that measure, the coordinator is not irrelevant.

As for this current crop of talent, I believe that a couple of changes could make a drastic improvement. A healthy Berry and a better player to replace Terrance Smith (#48) would do just that, IMO. Is the rookie Dorian O'Daniel that player? I don't know but I hope so. Still, rookies take time to learn to play at this level, to stop thinking all the time and just play. That's also, IMO, a big part of the reason that Speaks hasn't shown much as of yet. But he looked better against the Jags than he has in any game so far. That says to me that he's getting better. People just need to be patient. I think we have some decent young talent that will start to show up a lot more in the 2nd half of the season.

htismaqe · 10-09-2018, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lzen

You are correct to a certain extent. You're correct in that a great coordinator can't make bad talent into a great defense. That being said, I believe a great coordinator can make a mediocre defense good and a good defensive coordinator can make a good defense great. So by that measure, the coordinator is not irrelevant.

But this isn't a mediocre defense. It's actually pretty bad. Replace Terrance Smith and Reggie Ragland and if the defense is still this bad, fire Sutton. Go for it. But right now, getting rid of Sutton isn't solving anything.

Furthermore, they can't just bring anyone in. Andy is sitting on the bench talking to Mahomes while the defense is on the field. He's COMPLETELY hands off. You've got to make a change like this in the offseason.

GloryDayz · 10-09-2018, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Alex Smith mustered a whole 6 points after the Colts scored their first touchdown of the game. SIX. And he fumbled right into one of their 4th quarter scores.

There's plenty of blame to go around that game. If that's what you're clinging to to suggest Bob has been bad "for years", you're once again emoting and not being rational.

2014-2018 is "years", right?

Maybe you're trying to play the cool-minded fan act a little too much and letting that act get in the way of placing blame on all of the people who have earned it.

It's all good, if you're fine with Sutton I'm sure Andy will think you're right.

htismaqe · 10-09-2018, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

2014-2018 is "years", right?

Maybe you're trying to play the cool-minded fan act a little too much and letting that act get in the way of placing blame on all of the people who have earned it.

It's all good, if you're fine with Sutton I'm sure Andy will think you're right.

I'm not fine with Sutton. I actually DO blame all of the people that have earned it.

And there's at least 3 people in line AHEAD of Sutton. That's the problem I have here.

09-16-2018, 02:31 PM
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1904910	** BOB SUTTON That's it. You got major upgrades in the front seven. The corners were not the problem today. Guys running free underneath all ing day. NO PASS RUSH, rushing two and three guys and Steeler receivers STILL RUNNING FREE UNDERNEATH. Everytime we blitzed, we rushed the throw. Everytime we didn't, Roethlisberger had all ing day. No excuse to rush two and three against a HOF QB. You got younger, and faster. It's not all on the players. It's the scheme. It leaves the defense on the field until they're gassed and give up the big play. If the scheme is too complicated for your secondary to run, then CHANGE THE SCHEME. You have an offense that can score at will. Play aggressive and make them match you big play for big play. blitz, pressure, force them to make a big play or a mistake. Sitting back in loose zones all day is NOT WORKING. ** Sutton.
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