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Old 09-06-2017, 03:36 PM  
Taco John Taco John is online now
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WRAP Lawyers - What do you make of this document? (Ackers v Brazile)

If you're a lawyer, please take a look at this and whether or not it appears real or not. It looks like a civil complaint against the DNC, butI've read that it's a RICO lawsuit that can be escalated to a criminal case depending on what kind of evidence gets found.

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/08/...3083-0003-0-2/

This seems like big news, but clearly it's not being covered, so I'm wondering if the document is fraudulent, or the news media. Given what we've seen over the last two years, I'm guessing it's the latter.

Edit: This page seems to show that the suit has been granted:
https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/08/...ed-civil-case/

Last edited by Taco John; 09-06-2017 at 03:50 PM..
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Old 09-06-2017, 04:27 PM   #2
scho63 scho63 is offline
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I'm no lawyer but this seems like a simple "John Q Public" trying to gain his 15 minutes of fame with a frivolous lawsuit.

It's my understanding that a judge already ruled that the DNC could favor one candidate over another and hand pick someone.
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Old 09-06-2017, 04:39 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
If you're a lawyer, please take a look at this and whether or not it appears real or not. It looks like a civil complaint against the DNC, butI've read that it's a RICO lawsuit that can be escalated to a criminal case depending on what kind of evidence gets found.

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/08/...3083-0003-0-2/

This seems like big news, but clearly it's not being covered, so I'm wondering if the document is fraudulent, or the news media. Given what we've seen over the last two years, I'm guessing it's the latter.

Edit: This page seems to show that the suit has been granted:
https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/08/...ed-civil-case/
The clerks at the federal court have to accept pro se filings by humans who come up with legal claims, even if stating a novel theory never before recognized.

The Order says the Court does not mind believing that the pro se filer is too broke to pay the federal civil court filing fee, but the Court does not want a summons prepared just yet because a frivolity determination is in order.

Strong chance case dies at the frivolity determination level, which is not an easy thing to achieve unless you have a mental illness and think the federal court is a wonderful place to present your imagination.
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Old 09-06-2017, 05:00 PM   #4
Baby Lee Baby Lee is offline
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Civil Cases do not 'get escalated' to Criminal Indictments.

Greg Ackers has reams of suits filed and pending against everything from the DNC to Volkswagen to The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to Dennis Hof and the Bunny Ranch. He filed this listing an address at the Santa Monica Pier Metro Bus Depot.
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Old 09-06-2017, 05:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Civil Cases do not 'get escalated' to Criminal Indictments.

Greg Ackers has reams of suits filed and pending against everything from the DNC to Volkswagen to The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to Dennis Hof and the Bunny Ranch. He filed this listing an address at the Santa Monica Pier Metro Bus Depot.
Got it. So basically it's nothing more than a Louise Mensch sealed indictment.

Appreciate the insight. I don't know what to look for in these matters, and learned a lot from your explanation.
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Old 09-06-2017, 06:10 PM   #6
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Got it. So basically it's nothing more than a Louise Mensch sealed indictment.

Appreciate the insight. I don't know what to look for in these matters, and learned a lot from your explanation.
No, the point is that civil cases are completely distinct from criminal cases.

Suppose you punch me in the nose.

I personally could file a civil suit where I seek monetary damages, such as medical bills, pain and suffering, and disfigurement.

The STATE could file a criminal indictment, without or without my cooperation or involvement, where they seek criminal penalties, possibly including fines, supervision or imprisonment.

Civil cases are decided under case precedent and are a way for parties to settle disputes.

Criminal cases are decided under the criminal code enacted by a leiglative body with authority over the matter at issue, and are a way for society to deter criminal activity.

The two may involve common factual elements, but a case in one doesn't morph or escalate into a case in the other
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Old 09-06-2017, 06:32 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
No, the point is that civil cases are completely distinct from criminal cases.

Suppose you punch me in the nose.

I personally could file a civil suit where I seek monetary damages, such as medical bills, pain and suffering, and disfigurement.

The STATE could file a criminal indictment, without or without my cooperation or involvement, where they seek criminal penalties, possibly including fines, supervision or imprisonment.

Civil cases are decided under case precedent and are a way for parties to settle disputes.

Criminal cases are decided under the criminal code enacted by a leiglative body with authority over the matter at issue, and are a way for society to deter criminal activity.

The two may involve common factual elements, but a case in one doesn't morph or escalate into a case in the other
Great easy to understand answer! POS REP sent
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:11 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
No, the point is that civil cases are completely distinct from criminal cases.

Suppose you punch me in the nose.

I personally could file a civil suit where I seek monetary damages, such as medical bills, pain and suffering, and disfigurement.

The STATE could file a criminal indictment, without or without my cooperation or involvement, where they seek criminal penalties, possibly including fines, supervision or imprisonment.

Civil cases are decided under case precedent and are a way for parties to settle disputes.

Criminal cases are decided under the criminal code enacted by a leiglative body with authority over the matter at issue, and are a way for society to deter criminal activity.

The two may involve common factual elements, but a case in one doesn't morph or escalate into a case in the other

Understood. The part in which I have confusion would be in cases that are RICO Act specific.



In a RICO case, were this one real, criminal charges could follow civil findings, no?
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:49 PM   #9
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Understood. The part in which I have confusion would be in cases that are RICO Act specific.



In a RICO case, were this one real, criminal charges could follow civil findings, no?
They're still separate actions.

RICO creates a criminal act that can be pursued by the state, and it ALSO created a civil action that the courts must recognize that can be pursued by an injured party, which could be the state as well but could be an individual or class or corporation.

Perhaps think back to the OJ Simpson matter. The state pursued criminal charges under the California Criminal Code regarding homicide. AFTER that failed, the families filed a civil suit for monetary damages arising out of the same event.

There's a lot of overlap, naturally, regarding interested parties and relevant facts. But the aims of each type of legal action are distinct, so the matters are pursued separately.

A civil plaintiff must have an identifiable injury or loss that it has standing to seek recompense or redress for.

A criminal indicating party must be a governmental body with the authority to impose punishment on the behalf of society.

Certainly with this overlap, there is no end of machinations and strategizing regarding which legal procedure is used to discover or establish relevant information.

Things learned pursuing a civil case can persuade the state or institute criminal charges. Likewise, things learned pursuing a criminal verdict can persuade injured parties to file a civil suit.

But they're still separate.

Last edited by Baby Lee; 09-06-2017 at 07:56 PM..
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Old 09-06-2017, 08:03 PM   #10
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JFC already...one incident or set of events can give rise to a civil case and a criminal case.
They are seperate with different standards of proof involved.
If you aren't a child or retarded, it is isn't hard to understand.
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
They're still separate actions.

RICO creates a criminal act that can be pursued by the state, and it ALSO created a civil action that the courts must recognize that can be pursued by an injured party, which could be the state as well but could be an individual or class or corporation.

Perhaps think back to the OJ Simpson matter. The state pursued criminal charges under the California Criminal Code regarding homicide. AFTER that failed, the families filed a civil suit for monetary damages arising out of the same event.

There's a lot of overlap, naturally, regarding interested parties and relevant facts. But the aims of each type of legal action are distinct, so the matters are pursued separately.

A civil plaintiff must have an identifiable injury or loss that it has standing to seek recompense or redress for.

A criminal indicating party must be a governmental body with the authority to impose punishment on the behalf of society.

Certainly with this overlap, there is no end of machinations and strategizing regarding which legal procedure is used to discover or establish relevant information.

Things learned pursuing a civil case can persuade the state or institute criminal charges. Likewise, things learned pursuing a criminal verdict can persuade injured parties to file a civil suit.

But they're still separate.

Indeed. This is as I had imagined it to be. It seems that a civil RICO case can almost be seen (or even used) as a fishing expedition. It's my understanding that this is intentional in order to prosecute organized crime.

It would seem to me that a good psyop would be to file your own RICO case through a surrogate who looks as shady and insubstantial as possible, have the case thrown out, or otherwise completely bungled, and then laugh whenever anybody brings whatever substantial charges there might have otherwise been. Not that is what this is, but it's curious to me the amount of effort that has gone into this, and to see the case granted (if that document is to be believed).
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
JFC already...one incident or set of events can give rise to a civil case and a criminal case.
They are seperate with different standards of proof involved.
If you aren't a child or retarded, it is isn't hard to understand.
Quality, thunderous queef of a post right here.
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:32 PM   #13
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Quality, thunderous queef of a post right here.
Cosmo is worried that he's losing so badly in the douche poll. He's got a lot of ground to make up. Hear I wasn't even nominated.
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:45 PM   #14
GloryDayz GloryDayz is offline
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Fixed.

You moron, you ain't no lawyer!
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