The logic of drafting OT in the 1st. - Page 23

Direckshun · 01-21-2021, 01:23 PM

What we know about this team is that it typically likes to fill its roster out as much as possible in free agency and then spend its highest picks on potential replacements for job openings a year down the road, and that includes Veach.

I doubt I even need to run down the list but:

2020: CEH --> Williams
2019: Hardman --> Hill/Watkins
2018: Speaks --> Ford/Houston
2017: Mahomes --> Smith

Fisher will be on the last year of his contract, and most of us suspect Schwartz retiring.

The Chiefs obviously like Niang but going OT 1st gives them the options:

Niang vs. the rookie for starting RT
if the rookie wins, Niang can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position
if Niang wins, the rookie can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position
the Chiefs love Fisher but if both Niang and the rookie excel, maybe they cut bait
if only one of them excel, the Chiefs can extend Fisher

It just seems like the kind of move that gives them the flexibility in future decisions that they like to have.

I'd rather they go DE, even if it means trading up for one. But based on what we know, OT could ostensibly solve up to two different OL spots in 2021 and gives them all kinds of options in 2022 based on how 2021 goes.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-04-2021, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Ideally he’s a backup and emergency swing tackle at best. Since LDT is coming back I’d imagine our starting OL would best be Remmers, Allegretti, Reiter/replacement, LDT and Niang.

Wylie is always getting beat. I see him getting owned badly at least twice a game. Fortunately Patrick Mahomes is awesome mitigates it.

Man, counting on a 32 year old Remmers to start the season at Left Tackle is a disaster waiting to happen.

Sure, he's been "fine" in spot duty but I just don't see how that guy can start for 16 games, let alone, 19 games.

The Chiefs have been plugging in guys off the street and guys that were drafted in the 6th & 7 rounds since Andy Reid arrived and they've averaged 11.5 wins per season.

Andy can basically scheme up against any deficiency.

Direckshun · 02-04-2021, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The Chiefs - specifically Veach - said the plan was to begin with Niang inside at guard.

I'm not going to assume anything about him. He might not even be a starter opening day.

That was the plan because we have two Pro Bowlers at tackle.

This coming year, we likely have two holes at tackle.

RunKC · 02-04-2021, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I will never understand how the Chiefs "terrible" offensive line rendered the team to a 16-2 record and another Super Bowl appearance.

It was an average OL at worst really. Wylie is just the ugly duckling of the group.

Fisher is good, Schwartz was excellent, Reiter, LDT and Remmers were reliable and rock solid starters, Wiz is reliable, Osemele was arguably the best LG in the Andy Reid era before he got hurt and Allegretti has been a very nice find.

Wylie just isn’t that good. He’s always getting beaten

htismaqe · 02-04-2021, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Ideally he’s a backup and emergency swing tackle at best. Since LDT is coming back I’d imagine our starting OL would best be Remmers, Allegretti, Reiter/replacement, LDT and Niang.

Wylie is always getting beat. I see him getting owned badly at least twice a game. Fortunately Patrick Mahomes is awesome mitigates it.

I just don't see Niang being inserted as the starting RT after missing an entire season, when the Chiefs explicitly said they were going to work him at backup guard to start out.

I'd be willing to bet that if they can bring Remmers back that your starting line will be:

Remmers / Wylie / Allegretti / LDT / ???

or

Remmers / Allegretti / ??? / LDT / Wylie

Wylie is going to be a starter, at least to begin the season.

Direckshun · 02-04-2021, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yeah, he was so terrible that the Chiefs only scored 32 points. Wylie gave up 2 sacks during the entire season.

Mahomes is never going to have the kind of protection that you and others seem to think that he needs because he's always extending plays and running around.

He's not a 5 or 7 step drop QB.

They scored 32 points because Mahomes is a damn magician. Mahomes absolutely went insane in that Saints game. Mahomes/Hill/Kelce have legit hacked the NFL.

Watch his snaps. I've rewatched the game twice in the past week to prep for the Super Bowl. Wylie has no chance if you can get low to the ground.

He has some redeeming quality but he is a stopgap measure -- that's his role on this team. He is not a guy you can trust for 16 games there.

htismaqe · 02-04-2021, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

That was the plan because we have two Pro Bowlers at tackle.

This coming year, we likely have two holes at tackle.

Of course, circumstances often necessitate changes in the plans they have for a player.

But it doesn't change the player.

Obviously, they thought he was better suited to start out inside and work up from there. That hasn't changed, even though they may need him to play outside now.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-04-2021, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

It was an average OL at worst really. Wylie is just the ugly duckling of the group.

Fisher is good, Schwartz was excellent, Reiter, LDT and Remmers were reliable and rock solid starters, Wiz is reliable, Osemele was arguably the best LG in the Andy Reid era before he got hurt and Allegretti has been a very nice find.

Wylie just isn’t that good. He’s always getting beaten

Schwartz hasn't been "excellent" since 2016. He's been good and well above average at times, but he's also had his shit pushed in by Shaq Barrett and Von Miller, among others.

The bottom line is that Andy has specific traits that he looks for in an offensive lineman and in most cases, has either had those guys sit for a year (LDT, Allegretti) or forced them to play immediately with middling-to-poor results (Fisher at RT and Fulton at Right Guard).

Wylie's been fine. He started on the 12-4 2018 team, the 12-4 2019 and every game this 14-2 season. It's just not worth the time, money and draft resources to bring in other players that will bring similar or lessor results.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-04-2021, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

They scored 32 points because Mahomes is a damn magician. Mahomes absolutely went insane in that Saints game. Mahomes/Hill/Kelce have legit hacked the NFL.

Which is the exact reason why drafting an offensive lineman early in the draft isn't necessary.

Mahomes isn't a "Pocket Passer". He's not a 3, 5 or 7 step drop passer, nor is he a guy that needs to primarily run the offense in Shotgun.

There aren't many offensive lineman in the league that can hold their blocks for 7 seconds while Mahomes runs around while trying to hit the open receiver 20+ yards down field, so the Chiefs offensive line will never be considered "Dominant" because that's not Andy Reid's scheme with this QB.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-04-2021, 04:08 PM

https://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2...ew-mirror.html

Super Bowl 2021: Kansas City’s Mike Remmers looks to place disastrous day in Super Bowl 50 in rear-view mirror

Mike Remmers’ first and only Super Bowl appearance didn’t go very well for him or his team. The Kansas City tackle will get an opportunity to erase that bad memory on Sunday. Remmers was an offensive tackle for the Carolina Panthers when they faced the Denver Broncos in Super Bowl 50. Remmers had an awful day during the Panthers’ 24-10 loss to the Broncos.

The former Jesuit High School and Oregon State star allowed seven quarterback hurries and three of Carolina’s six sacks game, according to Pro Football Focus. Broncos’ linebacker Von Miller twice beat Remmers around the edge to strip-sack quarterback Cam Newton of the ball.

This was when Remmers was only 26 years old yet some of you guys advocate for him to start at Left Tackle for an entire season at age 32?

Yeah, we'll need to agree to disagree on that one.

**The Franchise** · 02-04-2021, 04:10 PM

Nobody on that Bucs defense is close to prime Von Miller.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-04-2021, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Nobody on that Bucs defense is close to prime Von Miller.

I sure as hell hope not.

Shaq Barrett was a monster last year and definitely cooled off this season. But I'm still concerned about Remmers when they're matched up because he just doesn't have the athleticism to keep up.

htismaqe · 02-04-2021, 04:18 PM

Back to the OP, I'm not opposed to taking an OT at #32.

IF it's the right guy. Like I said, I took Eichenberg in my latest mock and I think it gives the line some versatility because he could realistically play RT day 1 and possibly LT if needed.

I just can't see taking a project or a guy that's more likely to play guard in the first round. If you're going to take an offensive lineman that high, he almost HAS to be an offensive tackle because that's where we have the biggest need.

Chris Meck · 02-04-2021, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I will never understand how the Chiefs "terrible" offensive line rendered the team to a 16-2 record and another Super Bowl appearance.

Because Mahomes is ****ing amazing.

It'd still be nice to be able to run the ball some and not require Mahomes to be superman all the time.

O.city · 02-04-2021, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Schwartz hasn't been "excellent" since 2016. He's been good and well above average at times, but he's also had his shit pushed in by Shaq Barrett and Von Miller, among others.

The bottom line is that Andy has specific traits that he looks for in an offensive lineman and in most cases, has either had those guys sit for a year (LDT, Allegretti) or forced them to play immediately with middling-to-poor results (Fisher at RT and Fulton at Right Guard).

Wylie's been fine. He started on the 12-4 2018 team, the 12-4 2019 and every game this 14-2 season. It's just not worth the time, money and draft resources to bring in other players that will bring similar or lessor results.

Schwartz has been elite since 16. He has been IIRC, an all pro in 18 and 19. This year was obvious with the back he was struggling.

O.city · 02-04-2021, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Of course, circumstances often necessitate changes in the plans they have for a player.

But it doesn't change the player.

Obviously, they thought he was better suited to start out inside and work up from there. That hasn't changed, even though they may need him to play outside now.

I gotta think long term they want him at T. He's too talented to not be out there, it's way more valuable than a G.

I would actually see if Osemele could come back and play LG next year if his health checks out.

01-21-2021, 01:23 PM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4233447	The logic of drafting OT in the 1st. What we know about this team is that it typically likes to fill its roster out as much as possible in free agency and then spend its highest picks on potential replacements for job openings a year down the road, and that includes Veach. I doubt I even need to run down the list but: 2020: CEH --> Williams 2019: Hardman --> Hill/Watkins 2018: Speaks --> Ford/Houston 2017: Mahomes --> Smith Fisher will be on the last year of his contract, and most of us suspect Schwartz retiring. The Chiefs obviously like Niang but going OT 1st gives them the options: Niang vs. the rookie for starting RT if the rookie wins, Niang can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position if Niang wins, the rookie can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position the Chiefs love Fisher but if both Niang and the rookie excel, maybe they cut bait if only one of them excel, the Chiefs can extend Fisher It just seems like the kind of move that gives them the flexibility in future decisions that they like to have. I'd rather they go DE, even if it means trading up for one. But based on what we know, OT could ostensibly solve up to two different OL spots in 2021 and gives them all kinds of options in 2022 based on how 2021 goes.
Posts: 59,301

02-04-2021, 04:08 PM	#339
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	https://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2...ew-mirror.html Super Bowl 2021: Kansas City’s Mike Remmers looks to place disastrous day in Super Bowl 50 in rear-view mirror Mike Remmers’ first and only Super Bowl appearance didn’t go very well for him or his team. The Kansas City tackle will get an opportunity to erase that bad memory on Sunday. Remmers was an offensive tackle for the Carolina Panthers when they faced the Denver Broncos in Super Bowl 50. Remmers had an awful day during the Panthers’ 24-10 loss to the Broncos. The former Jesuit High School and Oregon State star allowed seven quarterback hurries and three of Carolina’s six sacks game, according to Pro Football Focus. Broncos’ linebacker Von Miller twice beat Remmers around the edge to strip-sack quarterback Cam Newton of the ball. This was when Remmers was only 26 years old yet some of you guys advocate for him to start at Left Tackle for an entire season at age 32? Yeah, we'll need to agree to disagree on that one.
Posts: 88,960

02-04-2021, 04:10 PM	#340
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2925047	Nobody on that Bucs defense is close to prime Von Miller.
Posts: 92,233

02-04-2021, 04:18 PM	#342
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	Back to the OP, I'm not opposed to taking an OT at #32. IF it's the right guy. Like I said, I took Eichenberg in my latest mock and I think it gives the line some versatility because he could realistically play RT day 1 and possibly LT if needed. I just can't see taking a project or a guy that's more likely to play guard in the first round. If you're going to take an offensive lineman that high, he almost HAS to be an offensive tackle because that's where we have the biggest need.
Posts: 100,022	2 0