***Official 2021 Royals Season Repository Thread***

[ChiefsCountry]

For all things Royals for the new year.

Free Agent Signings:
Carlos Santana
Mike Minor
Michael Taylor
Ervin Santana

Top 10 Prospects:
1 Bobby Witt Jr., SS
2 Asa Lacy, LHP
3 Daniel Lynch, LHP
4 Jackson Kowar, RHP
5 Erick Pena, OF
6 Nick Loftin, SS
7 Kyle Isbel, OF
8 Khali Lee, OF
9 Jonathan Bowlan, RHP
10 Carlos Hernedez, RHP

[CasselGotPeedOn]

Originally Posted by ChiTown

I’m really not a “burn it all down” guy, but seriously, Dayton, Matheny and Eldred leaving after this year would not break my heart at all. I’ve NEVER cared for Matheny. Cal is a bozo and Dayton just needs to move on.

Throw in dollar store Terry Bradshaw too.

[louie aguiar]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Eldred is a dummy. Doesn’t watch video, doesn’t believe in analytics, doesn’t believe in using advanced cameras to develop release points and tunneling and create more efficient pitches, doesn’t think spin rate matters.

He’s a fossil. Needs to go ASAP.

If true, this isn’t just a failure of cal eldred but the organization that put their most valuable asset (their young pitchers) into this guy’s hands.

[Prison Bitch]

Your friendly contrarian here.


This is Brad’s 4th year. He’s made 58 starts and 79 appearances coming into 2021, all under Elded. He’s collapsed this year.


You are all blaming Eldred for this? I blame Keller.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Eldred is a dummy. Doesn’t watch video, doesn’t believe in analytics, doesn’t believe in using advanced cameras to develop release points and tunneling and create more efficient pitches, doesn’t think spin rate matters.

He’s a fossil. Needs to go ASAP.

Jesus….

Id fire this guy tonight if it were me.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Your friendly contrarian here.


This is Brad’s 4th year. He’s made 58 starts and 79 appearances coming into 2021, all under Elded. He’s collapsed this year.


You are all blaming Eldred for this? I blame Keller.

It’s not so much Keller’s regression that concerns me, but it’s more that this is yet another example that his philosophy with young pitchers is more or less “buck up and deal with it with, son, this the major leagues. Trust your stuff.” He had quotes from Spring Training too that followed that kind of thinking. In today’s game, as Duncan pointed out, there are so many ways a pitching coach can take advantage of the data and tech at his disposal, Eldred, from all accounts, seems to be using none of it. There’s also this:

The Royals' pitching in numbers:

— 4.08 BB/9 (third-worst in MLB)
— 62% strike percentage (third-worst in MLB)
— 55.9% first-pick strike percentage (worst in MLB)
— 1.43 WHIP (second-worst in MLB)
— 17.6 pitches thrown per IP (worst in MLB)

— Alec Lewis (@alec_lewis) June 25, 2021

I’d be happy to be proven wrong, but the clock is ticking, and I think our pitching coach will be the most important position for us (we have to have someone who is at least good. Someone stellar with these arms could have 2015 Mets upside) as the young arms reach the majors.

Remember the musical chairs we played with our hitting coaches from 2012-2015? (I think we went through what, four coaches in two years until we found Sveum?) I want Dayton to have equal urgency until he finds someone who meshes with our pitchers.

[cosmo20002]

I find it hard to believe any of these assistant coaches make much difference.

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

I find it hard to believe any of these assistant coaches make much difference.

They dont. For example Dave Eiland on the staff both WS runs fired in 2017.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

I find it hard to believe any of these assistant coaches make much difference.

Ned’s veto system he installed in September 2014 (if Waka and Eiland vetoed an idea of his he wouldn’t do it) may have won us a World Series.

For young pitchers, I think what mostly matters is confidence and bouncing ideas off of them. For instance, Ventura wasn’t himself in the 2015 playoffs until Eiland recommended he pitch exclusively from the stretch. That worked, and won us Game 6 of the ALCS. Iirc that idea came after Eiland noticed that he hit a lot more first pitch strikes from the stretch after watching film and also noticed it kept his mechanics more consistent.

I think a lot of it is a coach who can help the players get loose and try new things. Eldred (and it seems like Matheny is bad at this, too) seem to leave a lot to be desired on this point.

Also, the difference between Pedro Grifol and Dale Sveum as hitting instructors made a world of difference (Grifol recommended the players swing at low pitches - universally regarded as a terrible idea). That experience made me realize that the gap between good and excellent bench coaches might be slim, but an incompetent one can do a lot of damage.

[tk13]

Yeah there are examples of assistant coaches making a huge difference, and we probably don't even know most of them. We might not beat the Blue Jays in 2015 without the assistant coaches and scouts. That's pretty well documented. We figured out David Price was tipping pitches, and that Jose Bautista would skip the cutoff man. At some point a player has to sink or swim, but good coaches will notice adjustments and trends that can help guys succeed.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by tk13

Yeah there are examples of assistant coaches making a huge difference, and we probably don't even know most of them. We might not beat the Blue Jays in 2015 without the assistant coaches and scouts. That's pretty well documented. We figured out David Price was tipping pitches, and that Jose Bautista would skip the cutoff man. At some point a player has to sink or swim, but good coaches will notice adjustments and trends that can help guys succeed.

Jirsche was straight up disrespectful to Bautista that entire series. Never seen a 3rd base coach own a player like that. It still does my heart good to think about.

[Sure-Oz]

Singer needs to get that change up too.

[Great Expectations]

I thought our new owner was a good analytics guy. His hires/retention of personnel indicate the opposite.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

I find it hard to believe any of these assistant coaches make much difference.

Well, you'd be wrong.

Pitching coaches are incredibly impactful. Both as sounding boards for pitchers (discussing pitch mix, strategy, etc.) and also a "review" step for what the pitcher is doing. Watching mechanics. Paying attention to potential pitch tipping tendencies. Identifying opportunities for improvement (throw your slider more, throwing your 2-seam fastball less, here, try this grip for the changeup, etc.).

One of the reasons Jacob deGrom IS Jacob deGrom is because Dan Worthen taught him the "Worthen" slider when deGrom came up to the majors - it's a grip and delivery approach unique to him. It's a much better breaking ball than deGrom's curve (which was still above-average, btw).

Hitting coaches generally don't have the same type of impact, unless their philosophy is just really dumb (like encouraging hitters to swing at pitches low in the zone and not worry about hitting ground balls).

But coaches absolutely make differences. Beyond the actual approach and mechanics coaching, their ability to get players to play confidently and relaxed is also a big deal. Some are really good at that.

Originally Posted by Great Expectations

I thought our new owner was a good analytics guy. His hires/retention of personnel indicate the opposite.

He is an outside-the-box guy, but he also is not going to be Dan Snyder. Like a good CEO, he's a believer in hiring experts and letting them do what they're the experts at, until they show they aren't experts or it isn't working.

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Well, you'd be wrong.

Pitching coaches are incredibly impactful. Both as sounding boards for pitchers (discussing pitch mix, strategy, etc.) and also a "review" step for what the pitcher is doing. Watching mechanics. Paying attention to potential pitch tipping tendencies. Identifying opportunities for improvement (throw your slider more, throwing your 2-seam fastball less, here, try this grip for the changeup, etc.).

One of the reasons Jacob deGrom IS Jacob deGrom is because Dan Worthen taught him the "Worthen" slider when deGrom came up to the majors - it's a grip and delivery approach unique to him. It's a much better breaking ball than deGrom's curve (which was still above-average, btw).

Hitting coaches generally don't have the same type of impact, unless their philosophy is just really dumb (like encouraging hitters to swing at pitches low in the zone and not worry about hitting ground balls).

But coaches absolutely make differences. Beyond the actual approach and mechanics coaching, their ability to get players to play confidently and relaxed is also a big deal. Some are really good at that.



He is an outside-the-box guy, but he also is not going to be Dan Snyder. Like a good CEO, he's a believer in hiring experts and letting them do what they're the experts at, until they show they aren't experts or it isn't working.

Well, it ain't ****ing working.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

I mean, let's be real, those of us here that were worried when they hired Matheny, one of the main concerns was he gonna **** up all of young arms coming up. That was #1 concern among a lot of people, including myself, because we had/have a boatload of talented young pitchers. Wasn't sure if he was the right guy for THIS situation.

What we're seeing this season officially has me worried. Not just for this season, but how this could affect the future of this franchise and this entire crop of young pitchers coming up. If they all come up and ultimately, crash and burn, then you have set the franchise and competitiveness of this club back literally years.

Now, whether you lay that at the feet of Matheny or his coaching staff (Eldred, others, etc.) or even GMDM, since he hired them, that is the question?

But if things don't start improving soon, SOMETHING drastic needs to change this off-season before they bury this franchise and the future of the organization for the next decade.

The offense has been disappointing, no question, but obviously some of that has been due to injuries. Still not good enough, though. But offense is down league-wide. It has definitely been the year of the pitcher. But the Royals don't seem to be benefitting from that with any of THEIR pitchers. That is concerning.

What we have seen with all of our young talented arms so far has been REALLY discouraging. Hopefully they can gain some confidence and get this thing turned around, but at this point I'm questioning our current coaching staff's ability to help them do just that.