Better Call Saul

[rico]

As I am sure many of y'all already know, a spinoff of "Breaking Bad" titled "Better Call Saul" will be airing in 2014. This is going to be a prequel to Breaking Bad and will be based on the character of Saul Goodman from "Breaking Bad."

I, for one, will be watching. I'm sure the majority of all of you other "Breaking Bad" fans will be as well. Might as well get the discussion going sooner rather than later.

So... what are your hopes, expectations and/or concerns with the show? Here are some of mine:

Hopes: I hope to see Saul do his thing in the courtroom. I hope to see strong, unique supporting characters. I hope to see Breaking Bad foreshadowing. I hope he has an intriguing paralegal and/or assistant. I hope to see Breaking Bad characters such as Fring, Mike, etc...whoever. I hope the show kicks ass.

Expectations: I don't expect it to be as good as "Breaking Bad" (because nothing else is, really), but I expect it to be good since Vince Gilligan is writing. I somewhat expect it to have an even balance of comedy and drama...since Saul undeniably provides a substantial amount of comedic relief in "Breaking Bad." I expect to see "courtroom Saul." I expect the "Breaking Bad" references and character cameos to be less than what I hope. If it isn't even a fraction as good as "Breaking Bad," I expect it to be better than 95% of everything else on TV, since there is some shitty shit on TV these days.

Concerns: I'd be a liar if I were to say that I didn't think this show has potential of flopping and certainly failing to meet the presumed high expectations of the audience. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be good... but I think it COULD suck if not executed properly. My main concern is Saul ultimately proving himself to be a "little dab will do ya" type of character, which would lead to a show centered around his character not working out. I am hoping that the character of Saul will not be so over-used and constantly over the top, that he becomes annoying to me, thus ruining his character for me altogether... Not saying I think this will be how it goes down...just saying I think there is a CHANCE of this being the case, which prompts me to believe that a strong supporting cast is VITAL in terms of the amount of success/quality this show will accumulate. All in all, I don't think VG will steer us in an unfortunate direction though...I think they'll pull it off.

Thoughts?

DISCUS!!!!

[Jamie]

To maybe clear up some of the intent of the finale, this is from this interview with Peter Gould, who wrote the episode and is the co-creator of the show.

What did it take for Saul, who seemed to lack remorse after being caught, to suddenly turn back into Jimmy? Take me through the decision to have him reverse course after he hears what Kim has done (in confessing, via affidavit, her involvement in Howard’s death).

Obviously, he gets caught at the beginning of the episode and he’s hopeless for a little bit. And then he gathers himself and realizes he’s Saul Goddamn Goodman. He’s in his element finally. And he negotiates a remarkable deal. But he does that by looking Marie Schrader in the eye, and saying that he was a victim like her. To me, that’s one of the lowest moments this guy has ever had. And that is a true Saul Goodman moment. There’s no hint of Jimmy.

When he hears what Kim has done in the previous episode, that she has copped to everything that she did, her whole part in what they did — which of course, is only a small sliver of what Saul Goodman did — I think it brings him up short. And suddenly this deal that he was kind of happy about, it kind of turns to ashes in his mouth. Suddenly everything feels wrong to him at that point. And he makes a decision, no matter what the cost is, he’s gonna come clean in court. He’s going to do what she did. If she can do it, he can do it. But he would really like her to be there. He wants her to see it. And who knows, maybe he doesn’t even trust that he has the courage to do it if she’s not there. So that’s why he tells a lie in order to get her into court. And then in court, he really hangs himself. He slits his own throat by confessing to everything. But in a weird way, it’s a moment of great showmanship. He may be the devil, but he’s the devil in the spotlight. And that’s as far as he’s planning to go. But then he sees the look on her face. And then he goes a little bit further.

[chiefzilla1501]

By the way, I'm glad they gave Marie a call back. The show did her a disservice by starting her character off on the wrong foot and making her annoying as hell. In the end, she was one of the more redeemable characters (next to Walt Jr). Whereas Walt pretends to do things for her family, Marie pretty consistently towards the end actually does.

[DJay23]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

That's what's so ridiculous about giving up his sweet plea deal. He got nothing for it.

He got some of Kim back, as represented by the color in the lighter flame and cigarette cherry.

He did the crazy thing yes, but it was the honest thing, the same thing Kim did. She was repulsed by him until this final act of honesty.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

dude, don't give me the "character arc" BS.
It's not believable human behavior. Period.
Could take 7 years, but took 86 instead. For no reason.

I swear, I think some of you get so invested in these shows that criticizing them would be like admitting some sort of flaw in yourself. Overall, I think it was a great show that overcame a largely boring start. But you can't just write off characters doing really dumb things that they or no human would never, ever, do as a "character arc."

If he actually sacrificed himself for SOMETHING or SOMEONE...maybe. But he didn't. It's not getting Kim off. She voluntarily confessed. It's like they so badly wanted to avoid any "predictable" ending like him escaping just so they could come up with something crazy that no one would ever guess. Well, there's a reason no one would ever guess this--it is completely ridiculous that any person would do this.

I don’t think anybody is saying the show is immune to criticism, but it’s funny that you’re acting like you discovered a major plot hole that the creators didn’t consider. They knew exactly what they were doing and why.

[notorious]

Slept on it. It’s a pretty good ending.

It reminded me as a kid how relieving it was to tell my parents the truth if I was hiding something, no matter the consequences.

Saul was in a prison working at Cinnabon. That’s why they showed the dough being mixed at the end. Although Jimmy was in real prison now, it was on his own terms surrounded by his people.

[Skyy God]

Amazing ****ing TV show.

Gilligan and Gould just nailed it over 6 seasons and closed with a fitting ending.

[Zebedee DuBois]

Kim is the key to his course reversal.

In fact, Kim is the only person whose interests Jimmy puts before his own. Not those of his brother, certainly not any authority figures.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

dude, don't give me the "character arc" BS.
It's not believable human behavior. Period.
Could take 7 years, but took 86 instead. For no reason.

I swear, I think some of you get so invested in these shows that criticizing them would be like admitting some sort of flaw in yourself. Overall, I think it was a great show that overcame a largely boring start. But you can't just write off characters doing really dumb things that they or no human would never, ever, do as a "character arc."

If he actually sacrificed himself for SOMETHING or SOMEONE...maybe. But he didn't. It's not getting Kim off. She voluntarily confessed. It's like they so badly wanted to avoid any "predictable" ending like him escaping just so they could come up with something crazy that no one would ever guess. Well, there's a reason no one would ever guess this--it is completely ridiculous that any person would do this.

It’s like you missed the whole point of the show, especially this season. Good God dude

[notorious]

The Exit sign in the foreground when Jimmy “killed” Saul in the courtroom was a nice touch.

Before, every time they showed an exit sign it was behind Saul. This time it was in front of him. Probably doesn’t mean anything.

[arrowheadnation]

Originally Posted by notorious

The Exit sign in the foreground when Jimmy “killed” Saul in the courtroom was a nice touch.

Before, every time they showed an exit sign it was behind Saul. This time it was in front of him. Probably doesn’t mean anything.

I thought that was shown because he was talking about Chuck's "sickness" at that moment. It was making that buzzing/humming "electricity" sound that used to trigger Chuck.

Here are my feelings on the Finale/final season:

Spoiler!

1. The finale was good, not great.

2. The final season was great. The big events occurred throughout the season rather than all being packed into the finale.

3. The final season was all about continuously piling on more and more parallels to Saul and other bad guys until he finally....FINALLY....has a "come to Jesus" moment (when Kim confesses) and realizes that he is just as bad or worse than the villains he was helping or despised (Gus, Walt, Charles, etc.). He also reaches the realization that each of these villians and all the people he has wronged would have had better (or very different) lives if it weren't for him.

4. I'm sad to see the Breaking Bad universe go, but am glad I was lucky enough to exist when it aired.

[siberian khatru]

Alan Sepinwall interview with Peter Gould, who wrote and directed the finale:

Spoiler!

To your mind, do you think what Saul does in the hearing will get Kim out of legal trouble with Cheryl?
No, I don’t. I think that Kim is on her own journey, and I think he knows that. He does feel bad about what’s happening with Cheryl. But I don’t think Kim would like it if Jimmy pulled some maneuver that protected her from Cheryl. He doesn’t save her; she saves her. They’re done with saving each other by this time. What he sees is that she had the courage to face what she’s done. And she did something that I don’t think Jimmy/Gene ever thought she would do, which is not only to turn herself in, but actually to sit across from Cheryl Hamlin, who they both lied to disgustingly, and be 100 percent truthful.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

dude, don't give me the "character arc" BS.
It's not believable human behavior. Period.
Could take 7 years, but took 86 instead. For no reason.

I swear, I think some of you get so invested in these shows that criticizing them would be like admitting some sort of flaw in yourself. Overall, I think it was a great show that overcame a largely boring start. But you can't just write off characters doing really dumb things that they or no human would never, ever, do as a "character arc."

If he actually sacrificed himself for SOMETHING or SOMEONE...maybe. But he didn't. It's not getting Kim off. She voluntarily confessed. It's like they so badly wanted to avoid any "predictable" ending like him escaping just so they could come up with something crazy that no one would ever guess. Well, there's a reason no one would ever guess this--it is completely ridiculous that any person would do this.

Good lord. So it's totally believable that a dude dressed like a clown was a total sleezeball in the courtroom for YEARS while representing all manner of criminals including cartel upper management, and a timid high school teacher that became a murderous meth kingpin and got absorbed by a Chicken restaurateur that built a goddamned huge commercial lab under a laundromat, and all of that went on for YEARS without anything drawing any undue attention?

And you're pissed off that it is "not believable human behavior" that a dude torpedoed his case because he found some moral footing?

Him Breaking Good is exactly the entire point of the whole ****ing series. And it's a nice symmetry to Walt's character arc.

BUT ZOMG GUYS NOBODY WOULD EVER DO THAT.

I'm not opposed to criticism. They deserve some for taking ****ing forever at the minimum, and frankly, I don't know if there is a better story in there, but I appreciate theirs. Even if it isn't terribly fulfilling, Even my unartistic ass can appreciate the art.

Originally Posted by notorious

The Exit sign in the foreground when Jimmy “killed” Saul in the courtroom was a nice touch.

Before, every time they showed an exit sign it was behind Saul. This time it was in front of him. Probably doesn’t mean anything.

It probably does. They're really good at that.

Just like in the scene

Spoiler!

in the prison, the gulf between Kim and Jimmy was beautiful filmmaking. The cherry on the cigarette, same. I was totally expecting it to fade back into color because that's what ham fisted morons like me would do, but they're excellent at it.

I'd say the previous episode with the symmetry of Kim going back to Albuquerque was better. No Mike in the Parking booth, nobody eating lunch, other lawyers filling her role, was absolutely beautiful filmmaking. Just awesome.

[TLO]

Jimmy/ Saul can live out his days in prison, which aren't exactly glamorous, but he's a folk hero to most of the individuals in there.

[TwistedChief]

Enjoyed these guys’ discussing the finale:

https://www.theringer.com/2022/8/16/...vince-gilligan

They term it a “generous” end to the show in terms of the time spent fleshing it out, giving all the major characters screen time, tying up loose ends, etc, and I think that’s well said.

I loved this ending the more I think about it.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

Enjoyed these guys’ discussing the finale:

https://www.theringer.com/2022/8/16/...vince-gilligan

They term it a “generous” end to the show in terms of the time spent fleshing it out, giving all the major characters screen time, tying up loose ends, etc, and I think that’s well said.

I loved this ending the more I think about it.

I like that podcast. They watch a mountain of shit that I don’t but it’s a good listen.