Movies and TV Leaving Neverland (HBO) - Page 4

Beethoven · 03-04-2019, 06:52 PM

Watched Part 1 of the HBO Documentary last night detailing how Michael Jackson sexually abused two kids. It was disturbing and sickening listening to these stories. What I do not get is why these parents let their child sleep with a grown, adult man.

Trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Ze8LjzV7Q&t=14s

BigRock · 03-08-2019, 08:46 AM

The problem with the idea that Michael was just a weird but innocent manchild is that it only explains things to a point. Like, sure, maybe that's why he liked to lavish young boys with money and gifts, and frequently profess his love for them, and sleep in the same bed with them.

But it doesn't explain why so many of his 'special friends' shared similar physical characteristics, which a cynic might think showed that Michael had a type. Or why multiple boys came from similar family situations, with divorced parents or other circumstances that had their father largely absent, which a cynic might think made them easier targets. Or why at some point generally around 13-15, but seemingly based more on their appearance than age, Michael inevitably took these boys he'd bonded so intimately with and so often professed his love for and moved them aside for younger boys who had caught his eye. Which a cynic shouldn't even need to explain the significance of.

If you're really on the fence about this, I recommend this series of articles from Vanity Fair spanning the decade from the first allegations to his trial. What's notable about them (aside from the details they provide) is that Michael's camp was famously litigious and sued writers/outlets over everything from stories about his plastic surgeries to his relationships and then obviously the molestation allegations. But these were in-depth articles and, though Team Jacko was fully aware of them and tried to cast doubt on them in various generalized ways (like the scene in the doc where Johnny Cochran said "I wouldn't believe anything I read in Vanity Fair" or words to that effect), they never actually challenged a single word of this reporting.

Nightmare in Neverland

The Jackson Jive

Losing His Grip

Neverland's Lost Boys

CSI Neverland

Vanity Fair's site eventually puts up a paywall after you read a certain number of articles, so to read them all you might have to clear your cookies or use an anon browser window or VPN or Tor or something.

stumppy · 03-08-2019, 08:55 AM

I don't need to watch this to know that mother****er was a pedophile.

**kysirsoze** · 03-08-2019, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

As a child of the late 70s/80s... (assuming a great many of you were too), none of this should be shocking. There were so many wild ass story lines with this guy. If anyone is truly shocked or in disbelief that this is possibly true, I think you have your head in the sand.

I wouldn't say I'm shocked. I would say, however I've had my head in the sand. I didn't want to believe this. I'd like to think it's just wanting to believe the best in people, but it's probably just that I really love his music. I've embraced every argument that exonerated him or cast doubt on his accusers. After watching this I'm pretty ashamed of that.

TwistedChief · 03-08-2019, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

One of my issues with this is that Robson testified on Jackson's behalf in 2005 as an adult that nothing was done to him...He was singing Jackson's praises all the way up until 2011..

It just comes off really strange that everything was great until his career went in the tank.

Did you watch the documentary? This is covered pretty clearly so I'm wondering if you just didn't believe the narrative or if you're missing the perspective that this film (and the extra segment with an Oprah interview) provided. Because this is very directly addressed.

AssEaterChief · 03-08-2019, 10:07 PM

Even if he didn't do anything to those kids, the optics of a grown man sleeping in bed with another person(s) child is disgusting....

How dumb was he to not realize from the get go it would look extremely bizarre to anyone not named Jerry Sandusky.

**BigRedChief** · 03-09-2019, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

One of my issues with this is that Robson testified on Jackson's behalf in 2005 as an adult that nothing was done to him...He was singing Jackson's praises all the way up until 2011..

It just comes off really strange that everything was great until his career went in the tank.

People who are raped or molested the majority of the time never tell anyone or just one person. Never go to the cops. Surely you know about the #metoo stories? They are all close to the same. There is no money involved in the vast majority of their stories of what happened.

Just because we don't understand why people don't call the cops immediately, doesn't negate their stories.

KCUnited · 03-09-2019, 10:15 AM

Yeesh. Debating whether to finish this thing or not. He appears to identify as a child but with grown man urges.

Mecca · 03-09-2019, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

People who are raped or molested the majority of the time never tell anyone or just one person. Never go to the cops. Surely you know about the #metoo stories? They are all close to the same. There is no money involved in the vast majority of their stories of what happened.

Just because we don't understand why people don't call the cops immediately, doesn't negate their stories.

He sued the estate of Michael Jackson for 1.2 billion dollars then this got made when that was thrown out...sane thing happened to Safechuck.

It doesn't come off very well to me, at best it looks carny and low integrity.

KCUnited · 03-10-2019, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCUnited

Yeesh. Debating whether to finish this thing or not. He appears to identify as a child but with grown man urges.

Somewhat glad that I finished part 2. While crushingly sad, it was an eye opening portrayal of how victims process abuse differently. Jackson seemed to (allegedly) possess the most dangerous traits of a pedo. He actually loved them, could relate to them as a child, and had the celebrity means to make them and they're families fall in love with him.

vailpass · 03-10-2019, 02:23 PM

I simply can’t watch shit like this. I don’t enjoy being sad or angry.

TwistedChief · 03-10-2019, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

He sued the estate of Michael Jackson for 1.2 billion dollars then this got made when that was thrown out...sane thing happened to Safechuck.

It doesn't come off very well to me, at best it looks carny and low integrity.

Again - did you watch Leaving Neverland or are you just operating under your previously ingrained bias?

I'm going to guess you never watched it and if it had been 5mm instead of 1.2bn you would feel different.

Mecca · 03-11-2019, 04:59 AM

I watched this and I watched the R. Kelly series...the R. Kelly one comes off much more believable to me than Neverland does.

At one point in Neverland I felt like Robson was literally reciting bullet points as he said things like 7 year old mouth.

KCUnited · 03-11-2019, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious

I am going to go another way.

Michael’s maturity and mental development essentially stopped dead when he was a child due to a traumatic experience.

He may be a monster, but it’s still okay to feel sorry for the child he was when somebody ****ed him up.

This line of thinking, and I'm not saying it's wrong, validates the hesitancy and refusal of victims to come forward. Imagine being the victim of sexual abuse as a child and then you go on to get married and have kids of your own later in life. The second you admit to being sexually abused as a child will cast the question in some that you yourself could become a predator. I can't imagine any amount of money that would make the risk of people questioning you around your own kids, or other kids, worth it for the "just looking for a payout" defenders of Jackson. They didn't come forward as kids because they thought they loved him, they hesitated as adults because they feared losing everything.

underEJ · 03-11-2019, 04:58 PM

The brave adults who finally spoke up about priests were filing suit as well. I don’t buy the its only about money thing at all. KCUnited is right. The first thing Wade Robsons wife did was question his relationship with his own kid. There’s no money worth being suspected every time you are in the vicinity of any child.

The effects and cyclical causes need to be better understood, but it takes very brave people to talk openly about how it changes them over time. This was one of the most clear retellings of how these adults came to understand, in both cases when watching their own kids grow, that their relationship with Jackson was wrong and hurtful and finally abusive.

I have a friend who “dated” a teacher as a 14 year old in high school and it is really only this year as a 45 year old that they openly refer to it as abuse. But in retrospect, you can clearly see the effects of that manipulation all the way through their life. They defended the teacher consistently for decades. Having a child get near the age of the abuse finally lets them see themselves as innocent and changes their view of what happened.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 03-11-2019, 05:05 PM

Weren't there 2-3 kids that were able to draw/describe his dick - including the vitiligo markings - to damn near perfection?

03-04-2019, 06:52 PM
Beethoven Starter Join Date: Jan 2017 Casino cash: $8270400	Leaving Neverland (HBO) Watched Part 1 of the HBO Documentary last night detailing how Michael Jackson sexually abused two kids. It was disturbing and sickening listening to these stories. What I do not get is why these parents let their child sleep with a grown, adult man. Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Ze8LjzV7Q&t=14s
Posts: 249

03-08-2019, 08:46 AM	#46
BigRock Pritay Pritay Pritay Good Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The State of Euphoria Casino cash: $3355412	The problem with the idea that Michael was just a weird but innocent manchild is that it only explains things to a point. Like, sure, maybe that's why he liked to lavish young boys with money and gifts, and frequently profess his love for them, and sleep in the same bed with them. But it doesn't explain why so many of his 'special friends' shared similar physical characteristics, which a cynic might think showed that Michael had a type. Or why multiple boys came from similar family situations, with divorced parents or other circumstances that had their father largely absent, which a cynic might think made them easier targets. Or why at some point generally around 13-15, but seemingly based more on their appearance than age, Michael inevitably took these boys he'd bonded so intimately with and so often professed his love for and moved them aside for younger boys who had caught his eye. Which a cynic shouldn't even need to explain the significance of. If you're really on the fence about this, I recommend this series of articles from Vanity Fair spanning the decade from the first allegations to his trial. What's notable about them (aside from the details they provide) is that Michael's camp was famously litigious and sued writers/outlets over everything from stories about his plastic surgeries to his relationships and then obviously the molestation allegations. But these were in-depth articles and, though Team Jacko was fully aware of them and tried to cast doubt on them in various generalized ways (like the scene in the doc where Johnny Cochran said "I wouldn't believe anything I read in Vanity Fair" or words to that effect), they never actually challenged a single word of this reporting. Nightmare in Neverland The Jackson Jive Losing His Grip Neverland's Lost Boys CSI Neverland Vanity Fair's site eventually puts up a paywall after you read a certain number of articles, so to read them all you might have to clear your cookies or use an anon browser window or VPN or Tor or something.
Posts: 6,777

03-08-2019, 08:55 AM	#47
stumppy New and Improved Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Springfield, Mo. Casino cash: $1388590	I don't need to watch this to know that mother**er was a pedophile. __________________ “As a nation, we can endure damaging policies for a four-year term. But we cannot survive a president willing to terminate our Constitution”**
Posts: 21,146	1 0

03-08-2019, 10:07 PM	#50
AssEaterChief Starter Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: SD Casino cash: $9992919	Even if he didn't do anything to those kids, the optics of a grown man sleeping in bed with another person(s) child is disgusting.... How dumb was he to not realize from the get go it would look extremely bizarre to anyone not named Jerry Sandusky.
Posts: 865

03-09-2019, 10:15 AM	#52
KCUnited Cheat Death Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Land of Drincoln Casino cash: $2188244	Yeesh. Debating whether to finish this thing or not. He appears to identify as a child but with grown man urges.
Posts: 33,978

03-10-2019, 02:23 PM	#55
vailpass Psycho Bag Of Squanch Join Date: Sep 2001 Casino cash: $9594244	I simply can’t watch shit like this. I don’t enjoy being sad or angry. __________________ “Education is a weapon whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.” Joseph Stalin
Posts: 69,591

03-11-2019, 04:59 AM	#57
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2517050	I watched this and I watched the R. Kelly series...the R. Kelly one comes off much more believable to me than Neverland does. At one point in Neverland I felt like Robson was literally reciting bullet points as he said things like 7 year old mouth.
Posts: 111,011

03-11-2019, 04:58 PM	#59
underEJ Veteran Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles Casino cash: $6903141	The brave adults who finally spoke up about priests were filing suit as well. I don’t buy the its only about money thing at all. KCUnited is right. The first thing Wade Robsons wife did was question his relationship with his own kid. There’s no money worth being suspected every time you are in the vicinity of any child. The effects and cyclical causes need to be better understood, but it takes very brave people to talk openly about how it changes them over time. This was one of the most clear retellings of how these adults came to understand, in both cases when watching their own kids grow, that their relationship with Jackson was wrong and hurtful and finally abusive. I have a friend who “dated” a teacher as a 14 year old in high school and it is really only this year as a 45 year old that they openly refer to it as abuse. But in retrospect, you can clearly see the effects of that manipulation all the way through their life. They defended the teacher consistently for decades. Having a child get near the age of the abuse finally lets them see themselves as innocent and changes their view of what happened.
Posts: 1,231

03-11-2019, 05:05 PM	#60
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $4851115	Weren't there 2-3 kids that were able to draw/describe his dick - including the vitiligo markings - to damn near perfection?
Posts: 60,266