Chiefs Great Manning Read. Closer To Reality - Page 2

kczoo · 03-20-2012, 05:46 AM

PEYTON MANNING BRINGS LEADERSHIP, BULL'S-EYE TO BRONCOS By: Steve Wyche | NFL Network Published: March 19, 2012 at 4:33 PM

The immediate gushing by Denver Broncos players over the acquisition of future Hall of Fame quarterback Peyton Manning , while emotionally expected, should give fans pause. As great as Manning has been, he is not the sole missing piece. He's close, but relying on him as a crutch is about as dangerous as the Philadelphia Eagles thinking all those flashy transactions last August would make them impenetrable.

The Broncos won the AFC West and beat the Pittsburgh Steelers in the playoffs last season because they played with the aggression of fear. They knew they were a flawed team -- they did lose eight games -- but hid their blemishes with relentlessness, persistence and backed-into-a-corner heart.

The addition of Manning could cause some players to think they've got the crutch, a guy to make up for the weak spots many of them had to compensate for last season. That change in attitude could blow everything up. Manning made it happen in Indianapolis because the team was built around him. He's walking into a roster that is still being sculpted, but with the main pieces already in place for the most part.

Manning is also coming back from nerve and neck injuries that look promising now but could look different after a few AFC West dates with Tamba Hali .

Manning isn't the type to allow for slippage. Whereas many free agents want to feel their way into a new environment and not threaten existing leadership, he walks into town with enough caché to have players following him from the get-go. His abundance of juice made him the only player who could not only douse Tebowmania, but also likely send it packing after Tim Tebow rallied Denver to the playoffs and created a hysteria through effort, belief and something magical.

Manning will hold players accountable and make them take co-ownership. This, after all, will be Manning's last fling at legacy-building and trying to win a Super Bowl.

The Broncos' coaching staff already is shredding much of its playbook from last season, adding its baseline agenda but leaving pages blank for Manning to fill in. The personnel staff is beefing up an offense that lost tight end Daniel Fells and wide receiver Eddie Royal , two nice young players. It's also looking at backup quarterbacks, possibly one in free agency and one to draft.

Frankly, what would be wrong with Denver adding Vince Young and keeping some of the run-pass concepts in its hip pocket in case he's got to play? Young would learn behind one of the best and also give Denver a backup with a twist.

As for the division, Chargers coach Norv Turner said Manning's arrival turned the once one-quarterback AFC West (San Diego's Philip Rivers ) into one that boasts Manning, Oakland's Carson Palmer , Rivers -- and a good Chiefs team. While Denver clearly looks like the March favorite to win the division because of Manning, San Diego quietly has re-stocked in free agency and can't be discounted. The Chiefs won't be a walkover either.

Nobody knows about the Raiders, but with Palmer having an offseason to get ready, they could be as dangerous as any team in the AFC West.

Turner said that even though Denver will be much more of a passing team with Manning at the helm, it won't change how San Diego or other teams build their defenses. Since most teams are pass-first, possessing as many pass rushers, defensive backs and players that can tackle in the open field remains a premium.

"The tie-in is how you get ready to play against them knowing he's there," Turner said.

Last season, Broncos' opponents had to game plan for a running team with a running quarterback. This season, Denver will be more orthodox, even though Manning brings his own set of problems for defensive coordinators.

Then again, the guy running things just put a bull's-eye on the Broncos. Denver faces a schedule as unforgiving as John Elway has been to Tebowmania. The non-divisional schedule is the NFC South (Tampa Bay, New Orleans, Atlanta, Carolina), the AFC North (Cincinnati, Baltimore, Cleveland, Pittsburgh) plus Houston and New England.

Texans linebacker Brian Cushing , who no longer has to face Manning and the Colts twice a season, told me the Texans will be "excited" to play at Denver next season. That's code for: "We beat the Colts with him (rarely) and we'll beat the Broncos with him."

Teams will come at Denver much harder than they came at the Broncos and Tebow last season. Opponents didn't seem to ever take Denver as seriously as they needed to until Tebow made something special happen in the waning moments. Now, they'll be ready before kickoff.

It's a new era in Denver.

Follow Steve Wyche on Twitter @wyche89

whoman69 · 03-20-2012, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

So Brady only has two good seasons left in him?

Manning can play at a high level for the next 3-5 years. Elway had some of his best years at the age of 37 and 38 and no QB took more of a pounding throughout their career than Elway.

You expect up to five more years out of a QB with Manning's medical history. Montana came to the Chiefs with back issues and couldn't stay on the field. Favre came to the Vikes a bit older, but also nursing an arm injury he suffered while with the Jets and could only give one more season. I'd say he will probably last two years, but as soon as the neck problems come up again, he should quit.

I don't know why Brady even comes into the conversation. He's a year younger than Manning, and doesn't have the medical baggage.

**Rausch** · 03-20-2012, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

So Brady only has two good seasons left in him?

Manning can play at a high level for the next 3-5 years.

Quesadilla Joe · 03-20-2012, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

You expect up to five more years out of a QB with Manning's medical history. Montana came to the Chiefs with back issues and couldn't stay on the field. Favre came to the Vikes a bit older, but also nursing an arm injury he suffered while with the Jets and could only give one more season. I'd say he will probably last two years, but as soon as the neck problems come up again, he should quit.

I don't know why Brady even comes into the conversation. He's a year younger than Manning, and doesn't have the medical baggage.

Those guys played in a different era. The QB's weren't protected back then the way they are now. Manning has taken very few shots throughout his career because of how fast he gets rid of the ball.

His neck will not be an issue, it will be stronger than ever. And the nerves in his arm are regenerating at an alarming rate. Every team that has worked him out has said that he looks like the same Manning from two or three years ago.

Pasta Little Brioni · 03-20-2012, 07:07 AM

Spin away little top

InChiefsHeaven · 03-20-2012, 07:13 AM

I have no doubt that Peyton will be effective, and maybe for up to 3 more seasons, but the problem is he can't fix everything that needs fixed in Denver. He can take care of the QB issue (barring injury) but that doesn't fix everything else by a long shot. I think he's gonna collect a paycheck but not a Lombardi Trophy.

JD10367 · 03-20-2012, 07:17 AM

Quote:

The Broncos won the AFC West and beat the Pittsburgh Steelers in the playoffs last season because they played with the aggression of fear. They knew they were a flawed team -- they did lose eight games -- but hid their blemishes with relentlessness, persistence and backed-into-a-corner heart.

The addition of Manning could cause some players to think they've got the crutch, a guy to make up for the weak spots many of them had to compensate for last season. That change in attitude could blow everything up.

An interesting and valid point, and I wonder if that's what's been happening to the Patriots for the past few years. (On the other hand, maybe the Patriots simply weren't talented enough to seal the deal in '07 and '11... which is something else the Broncos have to realize: one player, even at QB, doesn't necessarily mean a Super Bowl title.)

Honestly, I think Manning, even at 100%, only has a few seasons left and while he'll certainly elevate the Broncos' overall level of play, he's not going to win them a Super Bowl. They may go 11-5, 12-4, win the AFCW, win a playoff game or two, but I don't see much more. To win consistently, you need an organization that can build and sustain (e.g. New England, Pittsburgh, NY Giants). The Colts were the unusual instance of a team literally being carried by one of the greats in his prime. Look at Montana's post-Niner career, and that's what you'll see from Peyton.

Mile High Mania · 03-20-2012, 07:20 AM

Manning's arrival turned the once one-quarterback AFC West (San Diego's Philip Rivers ) into one that boasts Manning, Oakland's Carson Palmer , Rivers -- and a good Chiefs team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by InChiefsHell

That made me laugh my ass off!! They mention all the other QB's in the division...

I did the same thing...

**Dave Lane** · 03-20-2012, 07:22 AM

The good thing about Manning going to Denver is that all their salary cap money is gone. Any chance to improve the team is out the window. At the end of 3 years there will be a lot of younger players that go to FA because there is no money to pay them. You end up with a 2-14 husk and maybe a 1st overall pick when hes done

JD10367 · 03-20-2012, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

So Brady only has two good seasons left in him?

Brady will be 35 before the start of the season, and is not coming off major (and possibly career-ending) injury and surgery. And even with that, Brady probably only has three good seasons left in him.

Manning will be 36 in only a few days. He's a year and a half older. In football years, that's significant. I would say "two good seasons" would be about right.

I can see either of them playing into their Favre years but not as effectively by any means.

TheGuardian · 03-20-2012, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

So Brady only has two good seasons left in him?

Manning can play at a high level for the next 3-5 years. Elway had some of his best years at the age of 37 and 38 and no QB took more of a pounding throughout their career than Elway.

Brady is 34. So Brady might have 3 good seasons left in him.

Manning is going to play at a high level until he's 41? Are you that ****ing stupid?

Elway's last year he only started 12 games. And second, he had a MUCH better surrounding cast than what Manning has now, or will have next season. It's not even close.

Manning will be good for a couple of more wins than last years team, but not much more. 10 wins or so I'd guess. That's if he manages to make it through the whole season. No one knows how his neck is going to hold up. And if he does get injured again, he's done.

He's not some missing piece to a team that is ready made for a SB run. The Donks have a shit defense and shit offense for the most part. In Indy Manning had weapons galore.

**The Bad Guy** · 03-20-2012, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

Those guys played in a different era. The QB's weren't protected back then the way they are now. Manning has taken very few shots throughout his career because of how fast he gets rid of the ball.

His neck will not be an issue, it will be stronger than ever. And the nerves in his arm are regenerating at an alarming rate. Every team that has worked him out has said that he looks like the same Manning from two or three years ago.

Now he's a doctor too.

You have no idea how the neck will respond to the hits, the conditions, the elements in Denver.

It's a good move for the immediate future, although the weapons he has suck and Clark and Stokley aren't making them much better.

**The Bad Guy** · 03-20-2012, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Manning will be good for a couple of more wins than last years team, but not much more. 10 wins or so I'd guess. That's if he manages to make it through the whole season. No one knows how his neck is going to hold up. And if he does get injured again, he's done.

He's not some missing piece to a team that is ready made for a SB run. The Donks have a shit defense and shit offense for the most part. In Indy Manning had weapons galore.

Whole lot of truth here.

The Broncos D is trash. Their skill position players are average at best.

The line is a terrible pass blocking unit.

Mile High Mania · 03-20-2012, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

9-10 in the playoffs with better teams than the current Denver one.

He's a good QB but he's not a miracle worker.

You have the typical AFCW games and then...
Home:
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Houston
New Orleans
Tennessee

Road:
Baltimore
Cincinnati
Atlanta
Carolina
New England

They still need more than Manning... there are some really difficult games in that group of 10. Manning gives them more than a fighter's chance to win, but they need some other players and the defense is going to be just as critical to their success as Manning.

I hope most Denver fans realize this when they're throwing out the 11-12 win comments. It's easy to say they are 3-4 wins better with Manning, and in a generic conversation, it's true. But, apply that to the 2012 schedule and it's going to be a tough battle to 11 wins.

Mile High Mania · 03-20-2012, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

The good thing about Manning going to Denver is that all their salary cap money is gone. Any chance to improve the team is out the window. At the end of 3 years there will be a lot of younger players that go to FA because there is no money to pay them. You end up with a 2-14 husk and maybe a 1st overall pick when hes done

So, Manning is going to account for $40M this year on the cap?

**The Bad Guy** · 03-20-2012, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

You have the typical AFCW games and then...
Home:
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Houston
New Orleans
Tennessee

Road:
Baltimore
Cincinnati
Atlanta
Carolina
New England

They still need more than Manning... there are some really difficult games in that group of 10. Manning gives them more than a fighter's chance to win, but they need some other players and the defense is going to be just as critical to their success as Manning.

I hope most Denver fans realize this when they're throwing out the 11-12 win comments. It's easy to say they are 3-4 wins better with Manning, and in a generic conversation, it's true. But, apply that to the 2012 schedule and it's going to be a tough battle to 11 wins.

Finally some objectivity. I'd be doing handstands if Manning is in KC, but there's a reality here that few Bronco fans want to realize.

03-20-2012, 05:46 AM
kczoo Donkey Trainer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Marshfield Casino cash: $9864900	Great Manning Read. Closer To Reality PEYTON MANNING BRINGS LEADERSHIP, BULL'S-EYE TO BRONCOS By: Steve Wyche \| NFL Network Published: March 19, 2012 at 4:33 PM The immediate gushing by Denver Broncos players over the acquisition of future Hall of Fame quarterback Peyton Manning , while emotionally expected, should give fans pause. As great as Manning has been, he is not the sole missing piece. He's close, but relying on him as a crutch is about as dangerous as the Philadelphia Eagles thinking all those flashy transactions last August would make them impenetrable. The Broncos won the AFC West and beat the Pittsburgh Steelers in the playoffs last season because they played with the aggression of fear. They knew they were a flawed team -- they did lose eight games -- but hid their blemishes with relentlessness, persistence and backed-into-a-corner heart. The addition of Manning could cause some players to think they've got the crutch, a guy to make up for the weak spots many of them had to compensate for last season. That change in attitude could blow everything up. Manning made it happen in Indianapolis because the team was built around him. He's walking into a roster that is still being sculpted, but with the main pieces already in place for the most part. Manning is also coming back from nerve and neck injuries that look promising now but could look different after a few AFC West dates with Tamba Hali . Manning isn't the type to allow for slippage. Whereas many free agents want to feel their way into a new environment and not threaten existing leadership, he walks into town with enough caché to have players following him from the get-go. His abundance of juice made him the only player who could not only douse Tebowmania, but also likely send it packing after Tim Tebow rallied Denver to the playoffs and created a hysteria through effort, belief and something magical. Manning will hold players accountable and make them take co-ownership. This, after all, will be Manning's last fling at legacy-building and trying to win a Super Bowl. The Broncos' coaching staff already is shredding much of its playbook from last season, adding its baseline agenda but leaving pages blank for Manning to fill in. The personnel staff is beefing up an offense that lost tight end Daniel Fells and wide receiver Eddie Royal , two nice young players. It's also looking at backup quarterbacks, possibly one in free agency and one to draft. Frankly, what would be wrong with Denver adding Vince Young and keeping some of the run-pass concepts in its hip pocket in case he's got to play? Young would learn behind one of the best and also give Denver a backup with a twist. As for the division, Chargers coach Norv Turner said Manning's arrival turned the once one-quarterback AFC West (San Diego's Philip Rivers ) into one that boasts Manning, Oakland's Carson Palmer , Rivers -- and a good Chiefs team. While Denver clearly looks like the March favorite to win the division because of Manning, San Diego quietly has re-stocked in free agency and can't be discounted. The Chiefs won't be a walkover either. Nobody knows about the Raiders, but with Palmer having an offseason to get ready, they could be as dangerous as any team in the AFC West. Turner said that even though Denver will be much more of a passing team with Manning at the helm, it won't change how San Diego or other teams build their defenses. Since most teams are pass-first, possessing as many pass rushers, defensive backs and players that can tackle in the open field remains a premium. "The tie-in is how you get ready to play against them knowing he's there," Turner said. Last season, Broncos' opponents had to game plan for a running team with a running quarterback. This season, Denver will be more orthodox, even though Manning brings his own set of problems for defensive coordinators. Then again, the guy running things just put a bull's-eye on the Broncos. Denver faces a schedule as unforgiving as John Elway has been to Tebowmania. The non-divisional schedule is the NFC South (Tampa Bay, New Orleans, Atlanta, Carolina), the AFC North (Cincinnati, Baltimore, Cleveland, Pittsburgh) plus Houston and New England. Texans linebacker Brian Cushing , who no longer has to face Manning and the Colts twice a season, told me the Texans will be "excited" to play at Denver next season. That's code for: "We beat the Colts with him (rarely) and we'll beat the Broncos with him." Teams will come at Denver much harder than they came at the Broncos and Tebow last season. Opponents didn't seem to ever take Denver as seriously as they needed to until Tebow made something special happen in the waning moments. Now, they'll be ready before kickoff. It's a new era in Denver. Follow Steve Wyche on Twitter @wyche89
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03-20-2012, 07:07 AM	#19
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $398880	Spin away little top
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03-20-2012, 07:13 AM	#20
InChiefsHeaven Rockin' yer FACE OFF! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Omaha, Nebraska Casino cash: $775437	I have no doubt that Peyton will be effective, and maybe for up to 3 more seasons, but the problem is he can't fix everything that needs fixed in Denver. He can take care of the QB issue (barring injury) but that doesn't fix everything else by a long shot. I think he's gonna collect a paycheck but not a Lombardi Trophy. __________________ We have a million reasons for failure, but not one excuse... Die Donks, DIE!! Holy Crap fellas!!! We did it!!! THREE TIMES!!!
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03-20-2012, 07:22 AM	#23
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	The good thing about Manning going to Denver is that all their salary cap money is gone. Any chance to improve the team is out the window. At the end of 3 years there will be a lot of younger players that go to FA because there is no money to pay them. You end up with a 2-14 husk and maybe a 1st overall pick when hes done __________________ Thanks, Trump for the civics lesson. We are learning so much about RICO, espionage, sedition, impeachment, the 25th Amendment, order of succession, nepotism, separation of powers, 1st Amendment, obstruction of justice, the emoluments clause, conflicts of interest, collusion, sanctions, oligarchs, money laundering and so much more.
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