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Old 11-14-2021, 10:26 PM  
Hammock Parties Hammock Parties is offline
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Post here if you were an idiot who thought we needed to run the ball more.
Particularly if you believed it needed to be done out of power formations

No, the Chiefs needed to execute the passing game. And they finally did. They fought their way out of it.

And now we are going to skull**** everyone with our goddamn elite QB.
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Old 11-15-2021, 08:50 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Chris Meck View Post
You guys do realize that Patrick threw 4 TD's off of play-action, right?

You do understand that in order for play-action to work, you have to actually be a threat to actually run the football, right?

They ran just enough for the Raiders to respect it. Ok, cool. Some weeks it may take more. Some weeks it may take less.

Running the ball isn't just about YPC. It's about everything else that it sets up.
Shut up. You've been destroyed over the last month.
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Old 11-15-2021, 08:51 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
We do need to run more and we did and it worked.
Compare rushing attempts and yards to passing attempts and passing yards in previous games and get back to me.
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Old 11-15-2021, 08:53 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Meck View Post
You guys do realize that Patrick threw 4 TD's off of play-action, right?

You do understand that in order for play-action to work, you have to actually be a threat to actually run the football, right?

They ran just enough for the Raiders to respect it. Ok, cool. Some weeks it may take more. Some weeks it may take less.

Running the ball isn't just about YPC. It's about everything else that it sets up.
I believe there's been enough studies to show actually running it doesn't really matter in regards to play action.
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Old 11-15-2021, 08:55 AM   #64
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:00 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
I believe there's been enough studies to show actually running it doesn't really matter in regards to play action.
Do you actually understand what play-action is? Because if a defense doesn't believe you will run the ball, there is literally no point.

The whole of point of PA is to freeze the linebackers and/or safeties for their run fits, making them late to adjust and make their coverage fits. If nobody believes you're going to run the ball, they just don't honor their run fits.

This is football 101, and it's not really any more up for debate than water being wet.
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:00 AM   #66
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3.8 YPC is not good.

8.3YPA passing is pretty dang good.

I mean did anyone think the Raiders were successful running the ball last night?
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:04 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Chris Meck View Post
Do you actually understand what play-action is? Because if a defense doesn't believe you will run the ball, there is literally no point.

The whole of point of PA is to freeze the linebackers and/or safeties for their run fits, making them late to adjust and make their coverage fits. If nobody believes you're going to run the ball, they just don't honor their run fits.

This is football 101, and it's not really any more up for debate than water being wet.
Yes. And successfully running it or not has been shown to not effect play action.
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:04 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Chris Meck View Post
Do you actually understand what play-action is? Because if a defense doesn't believe you will run the ball, there is literally no point.

The whole of point of PA is to freeze the linebackers and/or safeties for their run fits, making them late to adjust and make their coverage fits. If nobody believes you're going to run the ball, they just don't honor their run fits.

This is football 101, and it's not really any more up for debate than water being wet.
I'm rather surprised to see you say this because analysis shows this to be incorrect. There is no correlation between how many times you run it and how effective PA is statistically.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...action-passing
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:04 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
3.8 YPC is not good.

8.3YPA passing is pretty dang good.

I mean did anyone think the Raiders were successful running the ball last night?
YPC is not really always the point, as I've explained several times. It's what running the ball DOES in all of the other ways. It opens up play-action, which Pat hit 4 TD's with. It opens up the intermediate routes, as LB'ers have to honor their run fits first and coverage responsibilities second. And sometimes, all you need is a yard or two, so plays are designed to do that, such as goal-line and short yardage. These drag your average down but are not unsuccessful plays.

I'm sure Clay is howling somewhere the opposite, but I put him on ignore a while back so I don't have to read his idiotic drivel but he doesn't actually know much about football and specifically situational football or the chess match strategy of setting up other things. He's definitely more of a checkers man.
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:05 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
3.8 YPC is not good.

8.3YPA passing is pretty dang good.

I mean did anyone think the Raiders were successful running the ball last night?
No. The Raiders look like a team who has had two players arrested and kicked off the team right after their coach got ran out of town...the sky is falling in Vegas.
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:06 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Chris Meck View Post
YPC is not really always the point, as I've explained several times. It's what running the ball DOES in all of the other ways. It opens up play-action, which Pat hit 4 TD's with. It opens up the intermediate routes, as LB'ers have to honor their run fits first and coverage responsibilities second. And sometimes, all you need is a yard or two, so plays are designed to do that, such as goal-line and short yardage. These drag your average down but are not unsuccessful plays.

I'm sure Clay is howling somewhere the opposite, but I put him on ignore a while back so I don't have to read his idiotic drivel but he doesn't actually know much about football and specifically situational football or the chess match strategy of setting up other things. He's definitely more of a checkers man.
Go read the link I posted. Running in fact does not open up play action.
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:08 AM   #72
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I hate to break it to you but we rushed 23 times tonight and some of those short quick hit passes to the WR and the RB are effectively an outside run. Those are the plays we have been neglecting that open up the passing game. Not everything can be a vertical pass. You have to take the underneath stuff including running the ball and screens/swing passes.

Those were lacking over the last few weeks - almost like we forgot we had them.
Absolutely this.

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Originally Posted by JudasRising20 View Post
The Raiders clearly watched no film. Hill was open all day. Kelce was open all day. Receivers were getting behind the Raiders secondary. Not sure what their defensive coaches did all week. The recipe for playing against the Chiefs wasn't followed well.
IIRC, the Raiders play the least C2 of any team in the league. Not surprising that the offense "broke out" last night.
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:16 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
I'm rather surprised to see you say this because analysis shows this to be incorrect. There is no correlation between how many times you run it and how effective PA is statistically.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...action-passing
I don't think that study says exactly what you think it says, and it partially proves my point-success running the ball doesn't really matter all that much in relation to play-action passing. But you still have to do it some. You have to make the defense honor that fact that you MIGHT run the ball.

The study shows that teams that rarely ran the ball ( not at all in the previous 8-10 plays) were less successful in play-action passing.

So the 'never run the ball ever, just throw' crowd are missing the point too.

What that study is looking at is how effective running games are in relation to play-action passing, and how much do you have to run? The answers are: you don't have to be great at it, but you do have to do it enough to be a threat to do it.

That's totally in line with what I've been saying. Other people may have been wanting to go full on Barry Word style Martyball, but that's not me, unless you're talking about eating clock late in the game sitting on a large lead.
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:16 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Phoneix View Post
I hate to break it to you but we rushed 23 times tonight and some of those short quick hit passes to the WR and the RB are effectively an outside run. Those are the plays we have been neglecting that open up the passing game. Not everything can be a vertical pass. You have to take the underneath stuff including running the ball and screens/swing passes.

Those were lacking over the last few weeks - almost like we forgot we had them.
It had become pretty mind boggling that some of those plays aren't a weekly thing as long as the defense is giving them.... especially Kelce coming off blocks and letting him do his thing for yards. It's one of those things that seem to work for every team in the league, but the Chiefs outright ignore it.

In previous weeks that stuff seemed so forced, it was great to see the confidence and rhythm last night, and the team having fun, which of course has been lacking.
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:18 AM   #75
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And I do think it would behoove us to run the ball a little more than almost 3-to-1 because we have a line that's built to do it; but I don't like running Williams outside. He doesn't have the speed for that.

Not just for play-action, but to pull those safeties up some and open up some more downfield shots.
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