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03-13-2008, 04:16 PM | Topic Starter |
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Ben Steins Movie - EXPELLED
Looks interesting I thought |
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03-13-2008, 04:20 PM | #2 |
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I predict that any discussion on this will inevitably be Expelled to DC.
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03-13-2008, 05:26 PM | #3 |
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Unfortunately, it's been intellectually dishonest all the way through the entire production as well as in the screening of the film.
First, they secured interviews with certain people under false pretenses. They interviewed PZ Myers, a professor at the University of Minnesota-Morris. You can read the massive coverage of Expelled the movies and it's sneaky tactics by searching the ScienceBlogs site. They secured an interview with Richard Dawkins as well. Essentially, they told disinformation to hide their true agenda, got the interviews granted on false pretenses, changed to the true pretenses and touted the interviews. Then, they pulled stunts on the screening of the film. There's so much bad press for this film it's funny. Not to mention that the reviews about the credibility of the film have been not so shiny. Has anyone found any good press from this movie?
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03-13-2008, 05:50 PM | #4 |
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Yea well pretty much the same thing Michael fat ass Moore did with his film and people felt he was brilliant, and not a fat ass deceiving bastard child.
Take the movie as thought provoking and it could be great. And FYI....Einstein was quoted with saying something like "the world is too perfect for there not to be a creator/god etc." And i think Ben Stein is taking a decent view point that scientists who believe in an intelligent creator should not be shunned and making scientists who don't believe this look like close minded fools. I don't think that is a proper categorization. I think many scientists would have no problem with a theory if they could back it up with data and factual evidence. Scientists are probably sick of hearing very religious people back up theories with "facts" that are no were near being factual enough for science. Ben feeds off this and creates this documentary. Oh well i still think one could walk away from it learning a thing or two about both sides.
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03-13-2008, 06:20 PM | #5 | ||||
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You got that quote a little wrong... Quote:
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03-13-2008, 06:31 PM | #6 | |
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Edit: perhaps creator is not the right choice of words. Maybe the Aristotelian "prime mover" or the Spinozan "Deus sive natura" are more correct. |
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03-13-2008, 06:09 PM | #7 | |
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I really thought you were doing a parody of a Michael Moore critic, and then I realized you were dead serious!!! You have a fantastic career ahead of you as an "unintentional comedian"... |
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03-13-2008, 06:11 PM | #8 |
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Care to point out what exactly was funny about it or what exactly I'm wrong about?
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03-13-2008, 06:16 PM | #9 |
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03-13-2008, 07:54 PM | #10 |
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03-13-2008, 06:16 PM | #11 |
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god lol
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03-13-2008, 06:22 PM | #12 |
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"Diabolic theocratic conspirators" trying to push their thoughts into the classroom. Dorothy, I'm still in Kansas. They haven't seen fossils in the Flint Hills.
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03-13-2008, 06:34 PM | #13 |
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No, no, that's all wrong. It's easy: God placed fossils on earth to test us.
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03-14-2008, 09:56 AM | #14 | |
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This is exactly Ben Stein's point. People see fossils, copy and paste big words from the internet, and think that the theory is proof. It would be bad enough if it stopped there, but any other line of thinking gets you shunned in the scientific community. The problem with this subject is that knowledge and science should be the first things we turn to, but instead most people turn to dogmatic or anti-dogmatic beliefs. This happens for several reasons. First, most people/groups that speak up for ID have no credentials except that they believe in God. This makes everybody else hear "Intelligent Design", and automatically assume that the designer has to be the God of Genesis. To me, you can either believe that all creatures evolved from a non-living matter, (a rock), or you can believe in ID. There is a good deal of faith required for both. I don't think that most people think that ID should be taught in the science class because there isn't a lot of science behind it. However, kids shouldn't be taught that Darwinism is flawless. Micro-evolution has a lot of scientific evidence to back it up, making it uncontroversial. Macro-evolution theory has a lot of holes in it, and if you want to teach it as "science" you should expose these holes and try to use them to disprove the theory. That's what science should be about! Darwinism starts with a single cell organism, but where did that organism come from? Either we all came from non-living matter or life has always existed in the universe, or something created/designed the organism. None of those ideas can be defended on any scientific basis. |
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03-14-2008, 10:29 AM | #15 | ||||||||||||
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Stein's entire position is that there is a "Big Science", which is bad. It's like Hitler and only allows his views to be represented. It shuts out things like creationism and ID from the discourse. This just isn't true. If they would apply ID to the scientific method and present some evidence, they would get somewhere. However, they haven't. Typically, creationists quote-mine other scientists, sometimes really bad. They usually mangle the word "Theory" to mean "guess", which it does not. It's hard to take people seriously when they cannot grasp basic scientific language. Quote:
Sure, there are holes in an over arching theory, but none that shake the foundations and let it lose it's credibility. The point is that they would like you to think it's so full of holes that scientists are trying to plug them. It's simply not true. There are holes and there are modifications trying to be made to the theory. Both sides are arguing back and forth within the scientific method. This is standard operating procedure within science. Quote:
It's like a political science teacher telling a nuclear physicist that he can't do his job properly. Quote:
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You also illustrate the big problem: education. What you are saying is that there is a disconnect between what people see and what people understand. That's where education comes in. And the sad fact is that creationists are killing the education that's there by redirecting discourse to "teach the controversy". Take a look at Oklahoma, Texas and Florida for recent cases. Oklahoma tried to pass a bill that said science teachers couldn't count tests answers wrong if they were religiously grounded. In other words, I could say that the Flying Speghetti Monster created the world yesterday and planted fossils here so that people could have jobs putting puzzles together. According to law, they would have to accept this answer. Texas has tried in many districts to pass legislature that instructs teachers to teach the "controversy" even though there isn't one. Florida has the same problem. And of course, Kansas has been fighting that for years and is the laughing stock because of it. Quote:
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Don't confuse the Big Bang Theory and Evolution to the same thing as creationists do. These ideas can be defended on a scientific bases, just not at the present time. Just like the radio couldn't be defended by scientists in the 16th century.
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