Royals Speculation about Zack Greinke being traded to the Braves - Page 2

Sam Hall · 11-26-2008, 06:21 PM

This is from another board. It sounds like Greinke isn't crazy about signing a long-term deal in KC. The four players the Royals would get seem legit. Escobar seems to be the key to the deal. He and Reyes are said to be immediate contributors. Schafer and Flowers aren't far behind.

Royals receive

OF Jordan Schafer or Gorkys Hernandez
SS Yunel Escobar
LHP Jo Jo Reyes or RHP Charlie Morton or LHP Jeff Locke
C Tyler Flowers

Braves receive: Zack Greinke

**DeezNutz** · 11-26-2008, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Jebus, I've never heard of Flowers, but he parked 17 balls in 400 ABs last year (and that's with a really low LD%). Looks like he draws a lot of walks, but Ks a fair amount too.

Did most of this as a C w/ about 1/3 as DH.

No need for Flowers. We have Buck.

Mecca · 11-26-2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

No need for Flowers. We have Buck.

I hope you're kidding...

'Hamas' Jenkins · 11-26-2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Well, this is a great perspective, no doubt. I was asking because I honestly have zero knowledge about the proposed return. Nada. Zip.

I do know that Greinke can and should develop into a regular All-Star...

Well, you'd get a damned nice outfielder in either Schaefer or Hernandez, a 4th starter in Reyes, and a catcher who is a few years away, but has some pop (perhaps better suited to first).

Any guy who walks as much as he Ks is a pretty solid addition, IMO.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 11-26-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Interesting. You don't trade a very high-quality pitcher for a high-quality OF. Not smart. Like giving up an All-Pro QB for an All-Pro guard. If however, we could get a very good SS and C, tough positions to fill, that would be outstanding.

Big gamble for Dayton...

That is absolutely false.

You make this trade. Position players are always more valuable than pitchers. That's why the A's never won anything with Hudson, Mulder, and Zito in their prime of primes.

Pitchers aren't as valuable as everyday players for the same reason closers aren't as valuable as starters--they cannot affect the game as much. Everyday players have more chances to change the outcome of a game.

**DeezNutz** · 11-26-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I hope you're kidding...

When Buck, Gload, and Teahen are involved in the conversation, I never kid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Well, you'd get a damned nice outfielder in either Schaefer or Hernandez, a 4th starter in Reyes, and a catcher who is a few years away, but has some pop (perhaps better suited to first).

Any guy who walks as much as he Ks is a pretty solid addition, IMO.

No tradey nice outfielder for one of the nicest young pitchers in baseball. Me no likey. As I mentioned earlier, trading a chip like Greinke must yield a top-notch player at a key position (anything in the middle of the diamond).

**DeezNutz** · 11-26-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

That is absolutely false.

You make this trade. Position players are always more valuable than pitchers. That's why the A's never won anything with Hudson, Mulder, and Zito in their prime of primes.

Pitchers aren't as valuable as everyday players for the same reason closers aren't as valuable as starters--they cannot affect the game as much. Everyday players have more chances to change the outcome of a game.

I disagree. Pitching is where it's at. See the '06-'07 Yanks.

**DeezNutz** · 11-26-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I disagree. Pitching is where it's at. See the '06-'07 Yanks.

To add, balance, of course, is the goal. But if I have to choose one aspect of the game to be my strength, it's pitching--keeps otherwise terrible teams in games.

Sam Hall · 11-26-2008, 07:33 PM

Texas is the only team that could match the Braves' offer, but they apparently don't want to give up as much.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 11-26-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

When Buck, Gload, and Teahen are involved in the conversation, I never kid.

No tradey nice outfielder for one of the nicest young pitchers in baseball. Me no likey. As I mentioned earlier, trading a chip like Greinke must yield a top-notch player at a key position (anything in the middle of the diamond).

Escobar is a damned nice shortstop (middle of diamond).

Schaefer or Hernandez are one of the best prospects in baseball.

Plus you get a solid lefty arm with a lot of upside and a catcher who has shown he has a good eye and pop in his bat.

**DeezNutz** · 11-26-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Well, you'd get a damned nice outfielder in either Schaefer or Hernandez, a 4th starter in Reyes, and a catcher who is a few years away, but has some pop (perhaps better suited to first).

Any guy who walks as much as he Ks is a pretty solid addition, IMO.

Don't like the sound of this. We have plenty of 4th starters and 1st basemen.

We don't have an Ace or power or a SS or a C or...

**DeezNutz** · 11-26-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Escobar is a damned nice shortstop (middle of diamond).

Schaefer or Hernandez are one of the best prospects in baseball.

Plus you get a solid lefty arm with a lot of upside and a catcher who has shown he has a good eye and pop in his bat.

If this deal goes down, it will likely be the defining moment in Dayton's KC tenure. For lack of better examples: if this is the Santana deal, he'll be golden. If this is the Saberhagen deal, he'll be looking for work.

Mecca · 11-26-2008, 07:39 PM

When did Zack Grienke somehow become something he isn't?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 11-26-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I disagree. Pitching is where it's at. See the '06-'07 Yanks.

Pitching is only paramount in the playoffs. In the regular season, solid everyday players are far more important to a team's success.

Think about it this way:

Albert Pujols has about 650 ABs a year, that's 650 chances to impact the game with his bat. Combine that with the fact that he had 1300 put outs on defense and over 130 assists.

Sabathia, in one of the most yeoman-like performances by a pitcher in years, faced about 1000 batters.

Greinke faced 850, but not only that, he did it once every five days.

If you want further evidence,

Pujols was worth 35 wins by himself last year.
Tim Lincecum, who was ****ing DOMINANT, was worth 27 wins

(measured by win-shares).

teedubya · 11-26-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

When did Zack Grienke somehow become something he isn't?

There was an article on DrivelineMechanics.com about him that really charted the path of him and CC Sabathia... showing Greinke to be ahead, especially when you consider how young he is.

They brought their site into SBNation.com and don't have the archived posts up.

Mecca · 11-26-2008, 07:43 PM

He's also pitching in Kansas City..maybe it's just me but Grienke doesn't look like a guy who'd take pressure very well.

11-26-2008, 06:21 PM
Sam Hall UNSTOPPABLE Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: KC area Casino cash: $9895185	Speculation about Zack Greinke being traded to the Braves This is from another board. It sounds like Greinke isn't crazy about signing a long-term deal in KC. The four players the Royals would get seem legit. Escobar seems to be the key to the deal. He and Reyes are said to be immediate contributors. Schafer and Flowers aren't far behind. Royals receive OF Jordan Schafer or Gorkys Hernandez SS Yunel Escobar LHP Jo Jo Reyes or RHP Charlie Morton or LHP Jeff Locke C Tyler Flowers Braves receive: Zack Greinke
Posts: 8,137

11-26-2008, 07:33 PM	#23
Sam Hall UNSTOPPABLE Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: KC area Casino cash: $9895185	Texas is the only team that could match the Braves' offer, but they apparently don't want to give up as much. __________________
Posts: 8,137

11-26-2008, 07:39 PM	#27
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-632950	When did Zack Grienke somehow become something he isn't?
Posts: 115,325

11-26-2008, 07:43 PM	#30
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-632950	He's also pitching in Kansas City..maybe it's just me but Grienke doesn't look like a guy who'd take pressure very well.
Posts: 115,325

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