The best mid-major team in NCAA history...

[Pasta Little Brioni]

It was a winnable game they just didn't get it done

[greatgooglymoogly]

Originally Posted by PGM

It was a winnable game they just didn't get it done

It was a winnable game...against an 8 seed. Wichita State spent untold millions on their basketball program, from facilities to their coach. Good lord, Marshall's salary alone killed off the hopes and dreams of the rest of the Valley. We can't pay half of what they can pay. Their situation was the absolute best a mid-major can have, and it got them nowhere.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by greatgooglymoogly

It was a winnable game...against an 8 seed. Wichita State spent untold millions on their basketball program, from facilities to their coach. Good lord, Marshall's salary alone killed off the hopes and dreams of the rest of the Valley. We can't pay half of what they can pay. Their situation was the absolute best a mid-major can have, and it got them nowhere.

This lack of perspective is incredible to me. They had a great season. They lost in a crapshoot tournament at the end like 63 other teams do, it happens.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

This lack of perspective is incredible to me. They had a great season. They lost in a crapshoot tournament at the end like 63 other teams do, it happens.

This just in, I must have misheard, . . . failure is NOW an option!!

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

This just in, I must have misheard, . . . failure is NOW an option!!

Rationalization is a bitch

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

This just in, I must have misheard, . . . failure is NOW an option!!

As players, coaches, etc; they can figure that out for themselves, but I'm sure they cope. As a fan, you're going to be pretty damn miserable if you think otherwise.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

This just in, I must have misheard, . . . failure is NOW an option!!

No, it's just the ending to everybody's season except one. Doesn't mean you still didn't have a great season.

[greatgooglymoogly]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

This lack of perspective is incredible to me. They had a great season. They lost in a crapshoot tournament like 63 other teams do.

It's important to understand the reality of a mid-major program. How many are able to set themselves up as credible national title contenders? How often are they able to do it? KU can sign X number of McDonalds All-Americans. It's a perk of being a blue blood, the best will stand at your doorstep.

Marshall had to hit a ridiculous recruiting streak based mainly on players that major programs ignored. I've never seen anything like it. The level of play that Baker, Early, Van Vleet, etc. bring laps the rest of the Valley. They're the best team I've ever seen in person.

Even if Coach Y hits a similar streak, how many mid-majors can afford the salary bump that Wichita State handed out? Yeah, they still have Marshall, and he could have another top 5 team in four years, but how many different situations have to break right for them to be there again?

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by greatgooglymoogly

It's important to understand the reality of a mid-major program. How many are able to set themselves up as credible national title contenders? How often are they able to do it? KU can sign X number of McDonalds All-Americans. It's a perk of being a blue blood, the best will stand at your doorstep.

Marshall had to hit a ridiculous recruiting streak based mainly on players that major programs ignored. I've never seen anything like it. The level of play that Baker, Early, Van Vleet, etc. bring laps the rest of the Valley. They're the best team I've ever seen in person.

Even if Coach Y hits a similar streak, how many mid-majors can afford the salary bump that Wichita State handed out? Yeah, they still have Marshall, and he could have another top 5 team in four years, but how many different situations have to break right for them to be there again?

Yes, they lost their chance for something really special. And probably won't have another chance at that for quite some time. But if you have perspective, you'd know they already accomplished something special already.

[greatgooglymoogly]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Yes, they lost their chance for something really special. And probably won't have another chance at that for quite some time. But if you have perspective, you'd know they already accomplished something special already.

And now you're talking down.

"They're a mid-major, they should be happy to be in the tournament in the first place!"

You don't pay a coach nearly $2 million per year to "just make the tournament". The Shockers were uniquely positioned to go for the jugular. They went undefeated in the regular season. It was reasonable to assume they could win the National Championship...until Kentucky showed you could sign a gaggle of McDonalds All-Americans and overcome the years of hard work and careful construction that a mid-major is forced to go through.

If Marshall and his staff whiff on a couple of recruits, or Marshall himself is offered the sweetheart deal of a lifetime somewhere else, or if they lose at Arch Madness, the Shockers will suddenly look quite pedestrian. Butler's poor performance this season implies that Stevens missed on a few of his recruits. He's an excellent coach, but he isn't worth 15 wins.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by greatgooglymoogly

And now you're talking down.

"They're a mid-major, they should be happy to be in the tournament in the first place!"

You don't pay a coach nearly $2 million per year to "just make the tournament". The Shockers were uniquely positioned to go for the jugular. They went undefeated in the regular season. It was reasonable to assume they could win the National Championship...until Kentucky showed you could sign a gaggle of McDonalds All-Americans and overcome the years of hard work and careful construction that a mid-major is forced to go through.

If Marshall and his staff whiff on a couple of recruits, or Marshall himself is offered the sweetheart deal of a lifetime somewhere else, or if they lose at Arch Madness, the Shockers will suddenly look quite pedestrian. Butler's poor performance this season implies that Stevens missed on a few of his recruits. He's an excellent coach, but he isn't worth 15 wins.

KC_C has spent the entire season convincing himself that the most beautiful girl he's ever seen is snooty and has poor hygiene to prepare himself for this day, which he saw coming nearly as long as I did, though I had the temerity to actually expect an effort out of my team.

[GoChargers]

Originally Posted by greatgooglymoogly

KU can sign X number of McDonalds All-Americans. It's a perk of being a blue blood, the best will stand at your doorstep.

Go take a look at UNLV's recruiting class and then tell me programs outside of the power 5 can't recruit. (Granted, Dave Rice will proceed to waste that talent because he can't coach a lick, but that's beside the point.)

Hell, I know it's not basketball, but Boise State flipped a top recruit from Texas A&M this offseason.

Non-P5 programs are very capable of recruiting with the P5.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by GoChargers

Go take a look at UNLV's recruiting class and then tell me programs outside of the power 5 can't recruit. (Granted, Dave Rice will proceed to waste that talent because he can't coach a lick, but that's beside the point.)

Hell, I know it's not basketball, but Boise State flipped a top recruit from Texas A&M this offseason.

Non-P5 programs are very capable of recruiting with the P5.

You are smoking some good shit. Conistently? Hell no.

[greatgooglymoogly]

Originally Posted by GoChargers

Go take a look at UNLV's recruiting class and then tell me programs outside of the power 5 can't recruit. (Granted, Dave Rice will proceed to waste that talent because he can't coach a lick, but that's beside the point.)

Hell, I know it's not basketball, but Boise State flipped a top recruit from Texas A&M this offseason.

Non-P5 programs are very capable of recruiting with the P5.

UNLV has more positive traits than most mid-majors: NBA-quality arena, their location in a destination city, the fact that they are "the only game in town". They have so many positive traits, in fact, that I don't expect them to remain a mid-major in the long term.

[WhiteWhale]

Originally Posted by greatgooglymoogly

It's important to understand the reality of a mid-major program. How many are able to set themselves up as credible national title contenders? How often are they able to do it? KU can sign X number of McDonalds All-Americans. It's a perk of being a blue blood, the best will stand at your doorstep.

Marshall had to hit a ridiculous recruiting streak based mainly on players that major programs ignored. I've never seen anything like it. The level of play that Baker, Early, Van Vleet, etc. bring laps the rest of the Valley. They're the best team I've ever seen in person.

Even if Coach Y hits a similar streak, how many mid-majors can afford the salary bump that Wichita State handed out? Yeah, they still have Marshall, and he could have another top 5 team in four years, but how many different situations have to break right for them to be there again?

They were in the final four last year.

It will happen again for a mid major. Jeez. Seeding in the tourney is over-rated. You have to beat good teams to get to the championship no matter where you are seeded.