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Old 02-20-2014, 02:49 PM  
Saccopoo Saccopoo is offline
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2014 NFL Combine - Players - The DT

Defensive Tackles:

Jay Bromley, Syracuse
6'3", 306 lb., 33 1/2" arms
Bench: 26
40: 5.06
Vertical: 33.5"
Broad: 8'10"
3 Cone: 7.92

Ryan Carrethers, Arkansas State
6'1", 337 lb., 31 3/4" arms
Bench: 32
40: 5.47
Vertical: 7'4"
Broad: 26"
3 Cone: 7.89

Deandre Coleman, California
6'5", 314 lb., 34 3/8" arms
Bench: 24
40: DNP
Vertical: DNP
Broad: DNP
3 Cone: DNP

Aaron Donald, Pittsburgh
6'1", 285 lb., 32 5/8" arms
Bench: 35
40: 4.68
Vertical: 32"
Broad: 9'8"
3 Cone: 7.11

Dominique Easley, Florida
6'2", 288 lb., 32 7/8" arms
Bench: 26
40: DNP
Vertical: DNP
Broad: DNP
3 Cone: DNP

Justin Ellis, Louisiana Tech
6'1", 334 lb., 33" arms
Bench: 28
40: 5.27
Vertical: 28"
Broad: 7'8"
3 Cone: 7.81

Ego Ferguson, LSU
6'3", 315 lb., 32 1/2" arms
Bench: 24
40: DNP
Vertical: DNP
Broad: DNP
3 Cone: DNP

Ra'shede Hageman Minnesota
6'6", 310 lb., 34 1/4" arms
Bench: 32
40: 5.02
Vertical: 35.5"
Broad: 9'6"
3 Cone: 7.87

Kerry Hyder, Texas Tech
6'2", 290 lb., 33 1/2" arms
Bench: 20
40: 5.10
Vertical: 29.5"
Broad: 9'0"
3 Cone: 7.23

Anthony Johnson, LSU
6'2", 308 lb., 32 7/8" arms
Bench: 20
40: 5.24
Vertical: 24.5"
Broad: 9'6"
3 Cone: 7.93

Daquan Jones, Penn State
6'4", 322 lb., 33 1/2" arms
Bench: 21
40: 5.35
Vertical: 27.5"
Broad: 9'5"
3 Cone: 7.16

Zach Kerr, Delaware
6'1", 326 lb., 32 7/8" arms
Bench: 28
40: 5.08
Vertical: 28.5"
Broad: 8'3"
3 Cone: 7.93

Dan McCullers, Tennessee
6'7", 352 lb., 36 5/8" arms
Bench: 27
40: DNP
Vertical: 20.5"
Broad: 8'1"
3 Cone: DNP

Louis Nix, Notre Dame
6'2", 331 lb., 33" arms
Bench: DNP
40: 5.42
Vertical: 25.5"
Broad: 8'1"
3 Cone: 8.29

Tenny Palepoi, Utah
6'1", 298 lb., 30 1/2" arms
Bench: 31
40: 5.10
Vertical: 30.5"
Broad: 9'3"
3 Cone: 7.67

Mike Pennel, CSU-Pueblo
6'4", 332 lb., 33 3/8" arms
Bench: 23
40: 5.23
Vertical: 28.5"
Broad: 8'6"
3 Cone: 7.94

Kelcy Quarles, South Carolina
6'4", 297 lb., 33 1/4" arms
Bench: 27
40: 5.03
Vertical: 23.5"
Broad: 8'6"
3 Cone: DNP

Caraun Reid, Princeton
6'2", 302 lb., 33" arms
Bench: 20
40: 4.91
Vertical: 26.5"
Broad: 8'10"
3 Cone: 7.59"

Shamar Stephen, Connecticut
6'5", 309 lb., 33 1/8" arms
Bench: 25
40: 5.25
Vertical: 30.5"
Broad: 8'7"
3 Cone: DNP

Will Sutton, Arizona State
6'0", 303 lb., 31 1/4" arms
Bench: 24
40: 5.36
Vertical: 28.5"
Broad: 8'3"
3 Cone: 7.93

Robert Thomas, Arkansas
6'1", 327 lb., 33 7/8" arms
Bench: 32
40: DNP
Vertical: DNP
Broad: DNP
3 Cone: DNP

Khyri Thornton, Southern Mississippi
6'3", 304 lb., 32 1/2" arms
Bench: 28
40: 5.03
Vertical: 29"
Broad: 9'4"
3 Cone: 7.83

Brent Urban, Virginia
6'7", 295 lb., 34 1/4" arms
Bench: DNP
40: DNP
Vertical: DNP
Broad: DNP
3 Cone: DNP

Chris Whaley, Texas
6'3", 269 lb., 32 1/8" arms
Bench: DNP
40: DNP
Vertical: DNP
Broad: DNP
3 Cone: DNP

Kerry Wynn, Richmond
6'5", 266 lb., 31 3/4" arms
Bench: 31
40: 4.97
Vertical: 34"
Broad: 9'5"
3 Cone: DNP

Last edited by Saccopoo; 03-01-2014 at 07:52 PM..
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Old 04-03-2014, 09:54 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
Well, Sutton came from the Jets. One only has to watch the Jets for about 2 quarters before they get it.

The Jets run about as many defensive sets as any team ever has. They employ both 1 and 2-gap. They run 3-4, they run 4-3 under. The coaching staff has borrowed from pretty much ever stop they've been at and they have experience with New England's style as well as the earlier Parcell's method.

And I'd MUCH rather have Donald than Hageman.
Same here. After Clowney and Mack, Donald is the 3rd most impressive defensive prospect in this draft, IMO. It just sucks that he tested so damn well in everything at the combine and had a hell of a Senior Bowl week. Very little chance he makes it to us now.
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:17 AM   #47
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False. Devito played less than 40% of the defensive snaps last year and he was our "starting" LDE 5-tech.

Jackson played a little more at 45% of the snaps, he had a few more opportunities in sub packages than Devito did before our coaches decided that he sucked at pass rushing.

We spent a hell of a lot more time in sub packages than we did in our "base" 3-4 defense, and even then our DEs didn't always line up as true 5-techs.
that doesnt tell me how many snaps they were at 5-tech.

Tyson Jackson 509 snaps
Allen Bailey 453 snaps
Devito 446 snaps.

one can be in a sub package and still have a player playing 5-tech. The chiefs could have also been rotating Jackson, Bailey, and Devito.

here are examples from the seahawks since you all like to keep bringing them up.




Here is the Jets 2010 rex ryan playbook

and an example of a 5-tech in a sub package (3 man front).
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:45 AM   #48
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Well, Sutton came from the Jets. One only has to watch the Jets for about 2 quarters before they get it.
its not exactly the same as the jets (link2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob sutton
we’re trying to incorporate many of the things we did in New York. Again, it’s got to be tailored a little bit to the personnel here. But I think the transition will be good because it’s 3-4 based but it has a little bit more multiple than what I had done in New York before or the same that Romeo had run here. It will be a great starting point, a great jumping off point because a lot of the players have the characteristics that we’re looking for and we might just move it in a little bit different direction.”
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...cheme/3005499/
Quote:
Originally Posted by article
The Chiefs are still a 3-4 defense, as they were in 2012 under former coach Romeo Crennel. But instead of being static up front, they've turned into shape-shifters – adjusting to offensive looks, trying to change the scrimmage line on every snap and utilizing a variety of personnel packages.
Teams like Denver, under Payton Manning run a hurry up offense which makes it difficult for defenses to substitute personel. The chiefs cant afford to have a player who is limited to sub packages or one position such as 3-tech, because teams (such as denver) can easily switch to a run play without substitution. I dont think that Aaron Donald is an every down lineman for the chiefs (at least in a 3 man front).

Finally, the same issues that the chiefs faced in the second half of the season (teams beating the blitz with quick passes) was something that Sutton faced in the past. Here is what he said in 2009
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Originally Posted by article
Sutton said opponents have been negating his blitz schemes, in part, by throwing the ball quickly or protecting the quarterback.
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:47 AM   #49
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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its not exactly the same as the jets
I never said it was.

In fact, everything you posted supports exactly what I said.
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:51 AM   #50
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I never said it was.
you sure as hell implied it.

Quote:
Well, Sutton came from the Jets. One only has to watch the Jets for about 2 quarters before they get it.
Sutton has said before that this is not the Jets defense but the chiefs defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
In fact, everything you posted supports exactly what I said.


you, nor anyone else, has provided evidence how many snaps (or percent of plays) that the chiefs use a 5-tech. you make ASSUMPTIONS based on the snaps of players (devito/jackson) that no other player also plays a 5-tech position for any number of plays. You make the ASSUMPTION that the chiefs dont use a 5-tech in a sub package formation. I showed that it is possible to be in a sub package formation and use a 5-tech. Heck, for that matter, what percent of plays do the chiefs use a 3-tech for the 2013 season?
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:58 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
you sure as hell implied it.



Sutton has said before that this is not the Jets defense but the chiefs defense.





you, nor anyone else, has provided evidence how many snaps (or percent of plays) that the chiefs use a 5-tech. you make ASSUMPTIONS based on the snaps of players (devito/jackson) that no other player also plays a 5-tech position for any number of plays. You make the ASSUMPTION that the chiefs dont use a 5-tech in a sub package formation. I showed that it is possible to be in a sub package formation and use a 5-tech. Heck, for that matter, what percent of plays do the chiefs use a 3-tech for the 2013 season?
Then wouldn't it make sense for the team to draft Donald and then line him up primarily at 3-tech vs trying to force him into the 5-tech role when we already have Devito, Walker, Bailey, and Catapano for that role?

So, again, why wouldn't you draft the most dominant interior pass rusher available in this draft again? Because you don't think he could do well at 5-tech when our team runs a multiple front and has a number of guys who could fill that role?
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:04 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
you sure as hell implied it.
No, I didn't.

The Jets have borrowed concepts from half a dozen different teams over the years, depending on where their coaches have come from.

I was talking about philosophy. You're fixated on scheme.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:05 AM   #53
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Then wouldn't it make sense for the team to draft Donald and then line him up primarily at 3-tech vs trying to force him into the 5-tech role
I wouldnt force him to play 5-tech.

1. I havent seen how often the chiefs use a 3-tech, and wouldnt want to use a first round player whose role will be limited to only a few snaps.

2. Donald cant (and shouldnt) line up as a 3-tech on everydown in a 3 or 2 man front. He would be a liability in the run game. An offense that doesnt substitute its players (which is becoming popular) would limit the ability of the chiefs to sub him in or out.

Thus I dont want to devote premium picks on a player who is limited on what he can do and may be limited in how many snaps he can play.

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Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
So, again, why wouldn't you draft the most dominant interior pass rusher available in this draft again?
because he may not fit the chiefs scheme, and the chiefs are not changing their scheme for him. The chiefs have already gone on record that their scheme is not changing for the 2014 season.

I dont try to force square pegs into round holes.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:09 AM   #54
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The Jets have borrowed concepts from half a dozen different teams over the years, depending on where their coaches have come from.

I was talking about philosophy. You're fixated on scheme.
you compared the chiefs defense with the jets (whether is was scheme or philosophy it doesnt matter). you said

Quote:
One only has to watch the Jets for about 2 quarters before they get it.
whether scheme or philosophy the chiefs defense is not exactly the same as the Jets. Thus, one may not "get it" by only watching 2 quarters of the jets.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:09 AM   #55
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I wouldnt force him to play 5-tech.

1. I havent seen how often the chiefs use a 3-tech, and wouldnt want to use a first round player whose role will be limited to only a few snaps.

2. Donald cant (and shouldnt) line up as a 3-tech on downs 1-3 in a 3 or 2 man front. He would be a liability in the run game. An offense that doesnt substitute its players (which is becoming popular) would limit the ability of the chiefs to sub him in or out.

Thus I dont want to devote premium picks on a player who is limited on what he can do and may be limited in how many snaps he can play.



because he may not fit the chiefs scheme, and the chiefs are not changing their scheme for him. The chiefs have already gone on record that their scheme is not changing for the 2014 season.

I dont try to force square pegs into round holes.
Yeah, a guy who led all of college football in TFL is a liability in the run game. If anything he would improve our ability to stop the run.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:15 AM   #56
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Yeah, a guy who led all of college football in TFL is a liability in the run game. If anything he would improve our ability to stop the run.
pitt runs a 4-3 defense. the chiefs employ a 3-4 base defense.

A 4 man front has more fatties at the LOS than a 3 man front which makes it easier to defend the run.

Here is an example of the weight difference for a typical NFL defenses:
3 man front: Donald (285), Poe (350), walker/devito (305) = 940lbs
4 man front: 285 end, poe (350), Donald (285), 300 end = 1220

the defensive line is lining up against 5 x 300lb offensive lineman = 1500 lbs.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:25 AM   #57
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you compared the chiefs defense with the jets (whether is was scheme or philosophy it doesnt matter). you said



whether scheme or philosophy the chiefs defense is not exactly the same as the Jets. Thus, one may not "get it" by only watching 2 quarters of the jets.
If you watch the Jets for 2 quarters, you'd notice that the Jets defense look a bit like the Patriots, and then a bit like the Cowboys, and then back to the Patriots, and then they drop a zone blitz ala Pittsburgh.

You obviously don't have any idea what I was talking about.

You're so concerned about being right about 5-techniques that you can't see the forest through the trees.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:28 AM   #58
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4 man front: 285 end, poe (350), Donald (285), 300 end = 1220
That's not a typical 40 front, dude. Most base 40 teams don't have DE's anywhere near 300 pounds.

The Atlanta Falcons fielded DE's that were BOTH under 270.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:28 AM   #59
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that might have been what you meant, but that isnt what you said. So lets take you at your current word and people can watch 2 quarters of the Jets defense to learn about defenses in the NFL in general. fine.

I'd rather watch the chiefs to learn about the chiefs.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:29 AM   #60
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pitt runs a 4-3 defense. the chiefs employ a 3-4 base defense.

A 4 man front has more fatties at the LOS than a 3 man front which makes it easier to defend the run.

Here is an example of the weight difference for a typical NFL defenses:
3 man front: Donald (285), Poe (350), walker/devito (305) = 940lbs
4 man front: 285 end, poe (350), Donald (285), 300 end = 1220

the defensive line is lining up against 5 x 300lb offensive lineman = 1500 lbs.
We need a guy who can do this against the run:



A hell of a lot more than we need someone who just occupies space like Jackson and Devito did last year. How great was our run defense btw with all of that "beef" and nothing beyond Poe as far as a potential disruptive presence in the opponent's backfield on run plays?

We were 22nd in total yards in run defense. 24th in YPC with a 4.5 YPC average.

Sorry, but I'm done with DL men who can only occupy space and blockers. I want an Aaron Donald who has not only demonstrated the ability to take up blockers, but can also make the plays in the backfield himself.
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