3 Guys who could/should be the Chiefs pick at #23

kccrow · 04-12-2014, 03:32 PM

A long-winded response to Sac...

1. Kyle Van Noy - LB - BYU

Where he fits for KC: WILB

Van Noy does not possess the requisite girth nor strength to line up as an OLB in an NFL 3-4 defense, even if he does have nice quickness and college production on the outside.

You look at a player like Justin Houston, who you'd consider a prototype at the position and you see a few things stand out that Van Noy simply does not have. First is that girth. Houston, also 6'3" weighed in 27 pounds heavier at 270. Next up is hands. Houston had monstrous hands at 10-7/8" that allow him to grab and redirect defensive lineman, whereas Van Noy has smaller hands at 9-5/8". When it comes to what is, essentially, a defensive lineman, hand size does matter. One thing Houston didn't have, that Van Noy does, is incredible arm length, which will benefit Van Noy in disengaging from blockers. Where Van Noy lacks though is both upper body and lower body strength. Van Noy has modest upper body strength, whereas Houston has the strength of a defensive lineman. Lower body explosion matters more to me, and while Van Noy has quick twitch athleticism which makes him look "explosive," he isn't going to be able to explode through offensive lineman the way Houston can due to lack of leg strength. Houston put up a 36.5" vertical and 125" broad jump despite weighing 270 pounds. Van Noy put up a 32.5" vertical and 112" broad jump and 243 pounds. The differences are noticeable. Van Noy is a run around, not run through type of linebacker. He's not going to be your stack and shed edge defender, nor does he look to be your strong side backer against the run.

Why I really like Van Noy is the fact that he covers ground quickly and smoothly. He can get from point A to point B in a hurry and he doesn't make mistakes when he gets there. He's a reliable, almost textbook, tackler. He is also very good in coverage, and he can be used reliably in blitzes. He's a guy that you'd draft to take over for Derrick Johnson, and that might not be a bad pick. He's the only LB prospect I truly like a bunch when it comes to fitting on the inside of KC's defense. I also like the fact that he can become very useful in the plethora of sub-packages KC likes to run. I think you can bring him off the edge in sub-packages as a blitzer, but you don't want him taking over for Hali on any kind of regular basis. He's a good player. I feel he has a mid-first to early second round grade. I can't envision him falling outside of the top 10 picks of round 2.

All of this said about Van Noy, I do believe that there are better places to spend that 1st round pick but I wouldn't be too ticked if KC felt he was the best player on their board at that point.

2. Donte Moncrief - WR - Ole Miss.

Where he fits for KC: X or Z receiver

I'll prefice this by saying I really like this kid as a WR. I actually agree with Sac on him being in the conversation for KC at #23.

What I don't like about Moncrief is a very short list, his hands and his ability to high-point the football. I'm not saying he doesn't have good enough hands or that he doesn't high-point, but he is not developed enough yet in those areas.

The one thing you cannot fix is the fact that his hands are on the smaller side for a receiver. His hands are big enough at 9-1/8", but he sure isn't going to wow anyone with barely big enough hands for an NFL wideout when it comes to projecting success. As a result, he sometimes traps balls against his body, and it shows up plenty on tape. That isn't a problem for me so long as those passes aren't dropped. What you see in the NFL, that he didn't see in college as much, are defenders closing on that ball/player much faster. When NFL players get there, they hit harder and they try to jar that ball loose. If he isn't plucking and securing the ball, he may end up having more than a few bounce off his shoulder pads. I think he needs more work in this area with a position coach, because he has shown he can catch the ball away from his frame.

I think we've all seen that Moncrief can contort his body and go up and get a ball, but there are times where he waits for the ball to fall into his basket rather than going up and high pointing the ball and securing the catch. This is going to lead to defensive backs getting their hands on balls and disrupting passes in the NFL. He has to learn to turn and grab a ball more often. This is another instance of him needing more coaching and more experience.

Overall, I think what we are looking at is a player that very well could have gone in the top 5 picks in the 2015 draft if he stayed in school, but you could get a phenomenal talent that needs some development by taking him this year. He's a guy, like Van Noy, that I have rated in the mid-first to early second round.

I really like Moncrief's size, his ability to control his body, and his quickness, long speed, and route running. I think he's got a high ceiling and could become one of the better receivers in the game within a few years. I'd have no problem with this pick if KC took him at #23 and would far prefer him to Van Noy in that spot.

3. Gabe Jackson - OG - Mississippi State

Where he fits for KC: RG

What I don't like about Jackson is his movement pulling and his ability to climb the ladder and get up to linebackers. I think these two items really affect where a team asks him to play and how they have to handle their other guard position. Jackson struggles to pull, unless he's doing a short pull on a trap or something similar. He doesn't move fast enough and NFL RBs aren't going to be patient enough to wait for him to get out of the way. I'd be concerned, even on traps, that he can slide fast enough to keep NFL calibur defensive ends from crashing down on the backs. I also haven't seen him move well in getting to the second level. I think he is limited outside of his box. I think he can make short area plays on the Mike, but I wouldn't ask him to slide out and get a weak side backer.

Onto the goods... Jackson is built like a flippin' bulldozer. I mean this guy is immovable, for the most part. Like Sac said, he's got 336 pounds sitting on tree trunks. He's got huge hands, he can grab and hang on. He holds his ground very well. You aren't going to get around him to make plays in the backfield very often. This is where Jackson is valuable. He isn't the guy you're going to ask to blow people downfield, he doesn't do it. He isn't a guy you're going to pull out in space to be a lead blocker for your back, he can't. What you will get is a guy that is going to handle big nose tackles and keep pass rushers away from your quarterback. He'll be most effective as a strong side player, and that is going to be fine with most NFL teams.

He isn't going to fit into a zone blocking scheme overly well, where the guards are asked to move a little more, but he could. He can slide and seal very well.

Overall, I have a 2nd to 3rd round grade on Jackson. I don't think he has enough movement skills for me to put a 1st round grade on him. If I'm taking a guard in round 1, I want a guy that I can do anything with. That is, I can pull him out in space, I can send him out after linebackers, all of that. Jackson isn't that guy.

Overall, if Jackson fell deeper into round 2 or into round 3, I'd advocate KC making a move to go up and get him. I happen to like a guy like Trai Turner more though because he can move really well. I would be pissed if KC took Jackson in round 1.

04-12-2014, 03:32 PM	#11
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $3037078	A long-winded response to Sac... 1. Kyle Van Noy - LB - BYU Where he fits for KC: WILB Van Noy does not possess the requisite girth nor strength to line up as an OLB in an NFL 3-4 defense, even if he does have nice quickness and college production on the outside. You look at a player like Justin Houston, who you'd consider a prototype at the position and you see a few things stand out that Van Noy simply does not have. First is that girth. Houston, also 6'3" weighed in 27 pounds heavier at 270. Next up is hands. Houston had monstrous hands at 10-7/8" that allow him to grab and redirect defensive lineman, whereas Van Noy has smaller hands at 9-5/8". When it comes to what is, essentially, a defensive lineman, hand size does matter. One thing Houston didn't have, that Van Noy does, is incredible arm length, which will benefit Van Noy in disengaging from blockers. Where Van Noy lacks though is both upper body and lower body strength. Van Noy has modest upper body strength, whereas Houston has the strength of a defensive lineman. Lower body explosion matters more to me, and while Van Noy has quick twitch athleticism which makes him look "explosive," he isn't going to be able to explode through offensive lineman the way Houston can due to lack of leg strength. Houston put up a 36.5" vertical and 125" broad jump despite weighing 270 pounds. Van Noy put up a 32.5" vertical and 112" broad jump and 243 pounds. The differences are noticeable. Van Noy is a run around, not run through type of linebacker. He's not going to be your stack and shed edge defender, nor does he look to be your strong side backer against the run. Why I really like Van Noy is the fact that he covers ground quickly and smoothly. He can get from point A to point B in a hurry and he doesn't make mistakes when he gets there. He's a reliable, almost textbook, tackler. He is also very good in coverage, and he can be used reliably in blitzes. He's a guy that you'd draft to take over for Derrick Johnson, and that might not be a bad pick. He's the only LB prospect I truly like a bunch when it comes to fitting on the inside of KC's defense. I also like the fact that he can become very useful in the plethora of sub-packages KC likes to run. I think you can bring him off the edge in sub-packages as a blitzer, but you don't want him taking over for Hali on any kind of regular basis. He's a good player. I feel he has a mid-first to early second round grade. I can't envision him falling outside of the top 10 picks of round 2. All of this said about Van Noy, I do believe that there are better places to spend that 1st round pick but I wouldn't be too ticked if KC felt he was the best player on their board at that point. 2. Donte Moncrief - WR - Ole Miss. Where he fits for KC: X or Z receiver I'll prefice this by saying I really like this kid as a WR. I actually agree with Sac on him being in the conversation for KC at #23. What I don't like about Moncrief is a very short list, his hands and his ability to high-point the football. I'm not saying he doesn't have good enough hands or that he doesn't high-point, but he is not developed enough yet in those areas. The one thing you cannot fix is the fact that his hands are on the smaller side for a receiver. His hands are big enough at 9-1/8", but he sure isn't going to wow anyone with barely big enough hands for an NFL wideout when it comes to projecting success. As a result, he sometimes traps balls against his body, and it shows up plenty on tape. That isn't a problem for me so long as those passes aren't dropped. What you see in the NFL, that he didn't see in college as much, are defenders closing on that ball/player much faster. When NFL players get there, they hit harder and they try to jar that ball loose. If he isn't plucking and securing the ball, he may end up having more than a few bounce off his shoulder pads. I think he needs more work in this area with a position coach, because he has shown he can catch the ball away from his frame. I think we've all seen that Moncrief can contort his body and go up and get a ball, but there are times where he waits for the ball to fall into his basket rather than going up and high pointing the ball and securing the catch. This is going to lead to defensive backs getting their hands on balls and disrupting passes in the NFL. He has to learn to turn and grab a ball more often. This is another instance of him needing more coaching and more experience. Overall, I think what we are looking at is a player that very well could have gone in the top 5 picks in the 2015 draft if he stayed in school, but you could get a phenomenal talent that needs some development by taking him this year. He's a guy, like Van Noy, that I have rated in the mid-first to early second round. I really like Moncrief's size, his ability to control his body, and his quickness, long speed, and route running. I think he's got a high ceiling and could become one of the better receivers in the game within a few years. I'd have no problem with this pick if KC took him at #23 and would far prefer him to Van Noy in that spot. 3. Gabe Jackson - OG - Mississippi State Where he fits for KC: RG What I don't like about Jackson is his movement pulling and his ability to climb the ladder and get up to linebackers. I think these two items really affect where a team asks him to play and how they have to handle their other guard position. Jackson struggles to pull, unless he's doing a short pull on a trap or something similar. He doesn't move fast enough and NFL RBs aren't going to be patient enough to wait for him to get out of the way. I'd be concerned, even on traps, that he can slide fast enough to keep NFL calibur defensive ends from crashing down on the backs. I also haven't seen him move well in getting to the second level. I think he is limited outside of his box. I think he can make short area plays on the Mike, but I wouldn't ask him to slide out and get a weak side backer. Onto the goods... Jackson is built like a flippin' bulldozer. I mean this guy is immovable, for the most part. Like Sac said, he's got 336 pounds sitting on tree trunks. He's got huge hands, he can grab and hang on. He holds his ground very well. You aren't going to get around him to make plays in the backfield very often. This is where Jackson is valuable. He isn't the guy you're going to ask to blow people downfield, he doesn't do it. He isn't a guy you're going to pull out in space to be a lead blocker for your back, he can't. What you will get is a guy that is going to handle big nose tackles and keep pass rushers away from your quarterback. He'll be most effective as a strong side player, and that is going to be fine with most NFL teams. He isn't going to fit into a zone blocking scheme overly well, where the guards are asked to move a little more, but he could. He can slide and seal very well. Overall, I have a 2nd to 3rd round grade on Jackson. I don't think he has enough movement skills for me to put a 1st round grade on him. If I'm taking a guard in round 1, I want a guy that I can do anything with. That is, I can pull him out in space, I can send him out after linebackers, all of that. Jackson isn't that guy. Overall, if Jackson fell deeper into round 2 or into round 3, I'd advocate KC making a move to go up and get him. I happen to like a guy like Trai Turner more though because he can move really well. I would be pissed if KC took Jackson in round 1.
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