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Old 03-04-2019, 04:52 PM  
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Chiefs tag Ford

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Old 03-05-2019, 01:40 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
Because Dee Ford has shown he can give you a season with zero sacks. He's done it multiple times.

Flowers is consistent, which is something fans don't give a shit about, but every single ****ing NFL coach values above virtually everything else.
Consisntenly average. Why the hell would you pay for that? Speak and Kpasso can give us 7 sacks.

FFS, Allen Bailey gave us 6 sacks and CP has wanted him gone for years.

Consistently average is NOT what coaches are looking for.
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Old 03-05-2019, 01:40 PM   #422
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An idea for what the Chiefs are doing...they are doing a formal interview with Jachai Polite, this team is changing personnel in a big way.
I'm not feeling this prospect in round 1. Playmakers? Sure. Playmakers who walk in to the biggest job interview of their life completely unprepared and then attempt to cover their lack of preparedness by shifting blame to the prospective employer? No thank you.

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Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief View Post
Did Jachai Polite have an agent? Aren't they supposed to prepare the players for the combine? What a disaster. Maybe we can get him in the 3rd round now?
My feels regarding the prospect get much better at this juncture.

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I'll take the superior talent, play maker over the "lunch pale" try hard every time. You can find try hard guys everywhere.
Not smart ones you can't. And that's what the majority of this team is going to be comprised of; smart and disciplined players who respond well to coaching. You seem to think we want to load up on a bunch of Ron Parkers.

How many Ford's and Houston's do you think the Chiefs are going to be able to retain over the years with Mahomes and his mandatory 3 elites?

There will be cap enough for roughly 4 and 4, offense and defense, at any given time. And to be honest, adding a 4th on either side of the ball is pushing it.

The way I see it, we're getting rid of 2 of those 4, retaining Jones who is one of our defensive elites, and preparing to replace those 2 with two different players who will be a better fit for what we are trying to accomplish.
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Old 03-05-2019, 01:43 PM   #423
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Flowers didn’t play Lb. he was never dropped into coverage.

And that's suppose to help your argument?

Great point you made though to show the massive gap in pass rush ability between the two. Ford produced more in nearly every category despite not moving towards the QB/RB every single play.
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Old 03-05-2019, 01:47 PM   #424
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Is Belicheck coming with him?
No, but his DL coach Daly is.
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:00 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
And that's suppose to help your argument?



Great point you made though to show the massive gap in pass rush ability between the two. Ford produced more in nearly every category despite not moving towards the QB/RB every single play.

Neither one moves towards the QB every single play.

I can’t find pas-rushing snaps from Flowers, but he has been top 20-rated as a pass rusher by PFf over the past 3 years. He also spends a lot of snaps moving around and having a run defense responsibility.

Ford, playing a stand-up OLB position, is going to have a lot more opportunities to tackle on run plays.

It breaks down to this:
Flowers is a great run defender and is a top-20 pass rusher based on grade/pressure the past 3 years.

Ford is a better pass rusher (wouldn’t argue that) and a shitty run defender.

I’ll take the former.
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:09 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
Because Dee Ford has shown he can give you a season with zero sacks. He's done it multiple times.

Flowers is consistent, which is something fans don't give a shit about, but every single ****ing NFL coach values above virtually everything else.
Exactly.
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:12 PM   #427
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
One player. That's what either Collins or Thomas will cost. Awesome. Now we have to fill hole vacated by Ford/Houston.
Neither Collins nor Thomas is going to cost $16M against the 2019 cap. Again, you're equating AAV with cap hit. Simply invalid.

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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Pass rush still matters. Not every team is the Patriots. You'll remember that again when the Chiefs cant rush the passer and the QB has all day to pick apart our high priced secondary.
It's you who will be remembering this conversation, when our patchwork secondary, largely dependent on rookies, is getting torched while Dee Ford is riding an exercise bike on the sideline.
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:13 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Consisntenly average. Why the hell would you pay for that? Speak and Kpasso can give us 7 sacks.

FFS, Allen Bailey gave us 6 sacks and CP has wanted him gone for years.

Consistently average is NOT what coaches are looking for.
Trey Flowers isn't consistently average.

He had 6 less QB pressures than Dee Ford last year. QB pressures are nearly as important as sacks themselves. He also had 3 forced fumbles.

You've got a completely one-sided, myopic view of the conversation.
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:19 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Neither one moves towards the QB every single play.

I can’t find pas-rushing snaps from Flowers, but he has been top 20-rated as a pass rusher by PFf over the past 3 years. He also spends a lot of snaps moving around and having a run defense responsibility.

Ford, playing a stand-up OLB position, is going to have a lot more opportunities to tackle on run plays.

It breaks down to this:
Flowers is a great run defender and is a top-20 pass rusher based on grade/pressure the past 3 years.

Ford is a better pass rusher (wouldn’t argue that) and a shitty run defender.

I’ll take the former.
yep

Can't get mad that the Chiefs are unable to stop a runningplay to save their lives than reject getting one of the best run Defenders that can also pass-rush.
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:27 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
Trey Flowers isn't consistently average.

He had 6 less QB pressures than Dee Ford last year. QB pressures are nearly as important as sacks themselves. He also had 3 forced fumbles.

You've got a completely one-sided, myopic view of the conversation.
Would have to compare their pressure rates, otherwise we're comparing apples to oranges.

As of right now, having 6 less than Dee Ford is not a favorable argument for you considering how often Ford dropped into coverage compared to Flowers.
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:32 PM   #431
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You also have to account for opportunities. Our pass rush had more opportunities than any other. Teams threw the ball on us more than any other team in the league. That inflates the sack numbers.
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Old 03-05-2019, 03:04 PM   #432
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Has anyone ever given up two first rounders for a franchise tagged player?
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Old 03-05-2019, 03:05 PM
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Old 03-05-2019, 03:23 PM   #433
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Has anyone ever given up two first rounders for a franchise tagged player?
We're not getting two firsts. No one has even mentioned it.
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Old 03-05-2019, 04:10 PM   #434
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Neither one moves towards the QB every single play.

I can’t find pas-rushing snaps from Flowers, but he has been top 20-rated as a pass rusher by PFf over the past 3 years. He also spends a lot of snaps moving around and having a run defense responsibility.

Ford, playing a stand-up OLB position, is going to have a lot more opportunities to tackle on run plays.

It breaks down to this:
Flowers is a great run defender and is a top-20 pass rusher based on grade/pressure the past 3 years.

Ford is a better pass rusher (wouldn’t argue that) and a shitty run defender.

I’ll take the former.
Trey Flowers - 78 total pressures on 581 pass rush snaps in 2018, good for 13.4% pressure rate.

Dee Ford - 84 total pressures on 626 pass rush snaps, good for 13.4% pressure rate.
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Old 03-05-2019, 04:21 PM   #435
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Trey Flowers - 78 total pressures on 581 pass rush snaps in 2018, good for 13.4% pressure rate.

Dee Ford - 84 total pressures on 626 pass rush snaps, good for 13.4% pressure rate.
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