KU *****OFFICIAL 2022 Border War Hoops and HATE Thread - Page 42

Chiefspants · 12:38 AM

Alright y’all! We got a game this Saturday. The reigning National Champion Jayhawks are as self-righteous as ever and coming to Columbia, where the Tigers look like they could have their best coached team since the Obama administration. Self is still figuring out his rotations (to a painful degree), and in Columbia anything can happen.

This thread can also be used to talk football and how this rivalry is oh so dead, which is why a bowl game that is not happening has arguments spilling over into Mizzou threads, KU threads, college football threads, and twitter and facebook wars all over my feed.

Join me and let’s all talk about how this game doesn’t matter anymore and all angrily ask why I’m missing asterisks in the thread title.

Prison Bitch · 12-12-2022, 10:33 PM

“Recruiting success”

Who cares? Wins and losses are all that matters

Pepe Silvia · 12-12-2022, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

“Recruiting success”

Who cares? Wins and losses are all that matters

Mizzou will never win again, you guys are safe, no need to beat a dead horse.

**Bearcat** · 12-12-2022, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Wasn’t advocating for college basketball to use the same system. Just pointing out that no system is perfect and each has their own inherent flaws. I think they should have kept CBB at 64 and quit watering it down by adding teams. Just makes it more likely that the best teams won’t be there in the end.

And I think college football is perfect with a 4 team playoff, but of course the NCAA has to go and **** that up too (expanding to 12 by 2026) so I guess you’re getting your wish there.

Yeah, I generally hate Cinderella teams across all sports... it's a fun ride until they get so far, and then they typically fail spectacularly.

I think 12 makes sense assuming they give 1-4 byes and let 5-12 play in... I'd personally like to expand to 6 and give the top 2 byes and have always thought 8 was more than enough, but we'll see.

There are already plenty of blowouts, so I'm not sure this would actually make it a ton worse... we may just determine 5-12 is just as bad as the typical 4 seed.

I think it could have some advantages in the long run though as schools get more opportunities to play in meaningful games... the rest of the bowl system is a complete joke of meaningless games.

RaidersOftheCellar · 12-12-2022, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Wasn’t advocating for college basketball to use the same system. Just pointing out that no system is perfect and each has their own inherent flaws. I think they should have kept CBB at 64 and quit watering it down by adding teams. Just makes it more likely that the best teams won’t be there in the end.

And I think college football is perfect with a 4 team playoff, but of course the NCAA has to go and **** that up too (expanding to 12 by 2026) so I guess you’re getting your wish there.

And I was just pointing out that it's silly to act like everyone has a fair chance in CFB. The BCS system was awful and I think the playoff is only slightly better.

Only one of the four 1 seeds in the '22 NCAA tourney belonged. How do we know that doesn't happen in CFB? There is no way to know, other than to allow more teams in.

There are too many teams in the NCAA tourney, but at least you know that every team with a viable chance has a shot.

RaidersOftheCellar · 12-12-2022, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Correct, no difference. Except recruiting success, major bowl appearances and, you know, that little thing people affectionately refer to as ‘natty’s’. But other than that, no difference.

And it’s not ‘my’ “worst team of the decade”. It is THE worst team of the decade. Less wins, by far, than any Power 5 team in FBS. Do I need to post the link yet again?

https://cfbsaturdays.com/most-wins-i...-years-mobile/

Most of us agree that they were the worst Power 5 team for a decade. Which is why it's a little strange that you think posting 6 wins in a strong conference is only slight improvement. Doesn't add up...

TomBarndtsTwin · 12-12-2022, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

“Recruiting success”

Who cares? Wins and losses are all that matters

Recruiting success is what leads to better talent which is what ultimately leads to better win-loss records.

You think it’s coincidence that the same teams (Alabama, Ohio St., Georgia, Clemson, etc.) are there at the end every single year?

It’s because they consistently pull in the best recruits year to year. It gives them a HUGE advantage over everyone else in the field.

Not sure how you can’t see that.

TomBarndtsTwin · 12-12-2022, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Yeah, I generally hate Cinderella teams across all sports... it's a fun ride until they get so far, and then they typically fail spectacularly.

I think 12 makes sense assuming they give 1-4 byes and let 5-12 play in... I'd personally like to expand to 6 and give the top 2 byes and have always thought 8 was more than enough, but we'll see.

There are already plenty of blowouts, so I'm not sure this would actually make it a ton worse... we may just determine 5-12 is just as bad as the typical 4 seed.

I think it could have some advantages in the long run though as schools get more opportunities to play in meaningful games... the rest of the bowl system is a complete joke of meaningless games.

Yeah, unless your in the CFP or a New Years Six bowl, it really doesn’t matter. The rest of the bowls are pretty much meaningless. It’s just a money grab to get fans of schools to travel and for bowls and their corporate sponsors to peddle their products.

I guess the kids get a little SWAG so that makes it more bearable for them, although it’s getting to the point now where so many guys are opting out that’s it’s almost not even worth playing some of these games anymore. The team you see play in the bowl game is NOT the same team you saw during the regular season (due to injuries, injury concerns, opt outs, transfer portal, etc.)

Prison Bitch · 12-12-2022, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Recruiting success is what leads to better talent which is what ultimately leads to better win-loss records.

You think it’s coincidence that the same teams (Alabama, Ohio St., Georgia, Clemson, etc.) are there at the end every single year?

It’s because they consistently pull in the best recruits year to year. It gives them a HUGE advantage over everyone else in the field.

Not sure how you can’t see that.

SEC has dominated reciting forever. Why aren’t they producing better teams than the B12? The data clearly shows they aren’t.

TomBarndtsTwin · 12-12-2022, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

And I was just pointing out that it's silly to act like everyone has a fair chance in CFB. The BCS system was awful and I think the playoff is only slightly better.

Only one of the four 1 seeds in the '22 NCAA tourney belonged. How do we know that doesn't happen in CFB? There is no way to know, other than to allow more teams in.

There are too many teams in the NCAA tourney, but at least you know that every team with a viable chance has a shot.

But where do you draw the line?

Okay, CFB decides to expand to 12, but then there’s a group of teams muddled together after the Top 5 or so, how do you decide which teams get to go and which ones get left out in the cold? Generally, in college football, the Top 4 or 5 teams are gonna be the ‘best’ teams and the teams that deserve to have the opportunity to play for a championship. A team that is 9-3 and finished 3rd in its conference and finished ranked #12 on the season had a great year. But do they deserve to play for a Natty? IMO, hell no. But that’s what will be happening in the new ‘expanded’ playoff. And just wait till we start hearing all the crying from the #13 team and the #14 team and the (you get the idea). WE should have been in instead of the #11 team or the #12 team! It will get unbearable listening to all the bitching and complaining from fanbases, coaches, players, boosters, administrators, etc. So then we’ll eventually cave into the bitching and expand again! Yea. Now you’ve got an extremely watered down field of teams, most of which have NO business having the opportunity to play for a National Title getting the Oprah treatment. Eventually no one will care about the CFP if it heads that direction.

You can’t treat college football like college basketball. They’re different sports with different physical requirements that require different turnaround times for games, more significant injury risks. How many extra weeks you gonna take away from these kids forcing them to play all these additional games if they happen to be ‘lucky’ enough to be one of the chosen. Does anyone give a shit about potential injury risks to these kids, several of which will be playing on Sunday’s soon enough. I guarantee their parents do. And probably their agents. And hell, the kids themselves. ‘Gotta look out for me’. Can you blame them? So you’ll see ‘Star’ players pulling out of CFP games on a regular basis because who wants to risk a future career of millions and lifetime security for your family to satisfy an organization that wants to subject them to additional injury risk by playing a drawn out CFP that instead of only 2 games is now 4 games (and eventually more than that if they continue to expand, which they will). How do I know that? Because it’s all about money and at the end of the day the NCAA will make as much profit off these teams and players as they can because they don’t give a damn about what happens to them when they’re finished with college and ready to head off to their future NFL career. (or whatever they choose to do in life after football)

They’ll squeeze them for every last dime they can, damn the future consequences of those actions though.

Mark my words. Expanding the CFP will ultimately ruin college football and the players will end up being the collateral damage from it.

But the NCAA won’t give one flying ****.

And THAT’s why you keep it at 4. It’s fine the way it is.

TomBarndtsTwin · 12-12-2022, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

SEC has dominated reciting forever. Why aren’t they producing better teams than the B12? The data clearly shows they aren’t.

The SEC has won 5 of the last 7 National Championships, 11 of the last 15. You know how many the Big 12 has won in that time period?

It would seem to me they ARE clearly producing better teams than the Big 12. If they weren’t, you would occasionally see a Big 12 team win a Natty. Or at least even play for one . . . . .

I like how your data doesn’t consider on the field results.

RaidersOftheCellar · 12-13-2022, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

But where do you draw the line?

Okay, CFB decides to expand to 12, but then there’s a group of teams muddled together after the Top 5 or so, how do you decide which teams get to go and which ones get left out in the cold? Generally, in college football, the Top 4 or 5 teams are gonna be the ‘best’ teams and the teams that deserve to have the opportunity to play for a championship. A team that is 9-3 and finished 3rd in its conference and finished ranked #12 on the season had a great year. But do they deserve to play for a Natty? IMO, hell no. But that’s what will be happening in the new ‘expanded’ playoff. And just wait till we start hearing all the crying from the #13 team and the #14 team and the (you get the idea). WE should have been in instead of the #11 team or the #12 team! It will get unbearable listening to all the bitching and complaining from fanbases, coaches, players, boosters, administrators, etc. So then we’ll eventually cave into the bitching and expand again! Yea. Now you’ve got an extremely watered down field of teams, most of which have NO business having the opportunity to play for a National Title getting the Oprah treatment. Eventually no one will care about the CFP if it heads that direction.

You can’t treat college football like college basketball. They’re different sports with different physical requirements that require different turnaround times for games, more significant injury risks. How many extra weeks you gonna take away from these kids forcing them to play all these additional games if they happen to be ‘lucky’ enough to be one of the chosen. Does anyone give a shit about potential injury risks to these kids, several of which will be playing on Sunday’s soon enough. I guarantee their parents do. And probably their agents. And hell, the kids themselves. ‘Gotta look out for me’. Can you blame them? So you’ll see ‘Star’ players pulling out of CFP games on a regular basis because who wants to risk a future career of millions and lifetime security for your family to satisfy an organization that wants to subject them to additional injury risk by playing a drawn out CFP that instead of only 2 games is now 4 games (and eventually more than that if they continue to expand, which they will). How do I know that? Because it’s all about money and at the end of the day the NCAA will make as much profit off these teams and players as they can because they don’t give a damn about what happens to them when they’re finished with college and ready to head off to their future NFL career. (or whatever they choose to do in life after football)

They’ll squeeze them for every last dime they can, damn the future consequences of those actions though.

Mark my words. Expanding the CFP will ultimately ruin college football and the players will end up being the collateral damage from it.

But the NCAA won’t give one flying ****.

And THAT’s why you keep it at 4. It’s fine the way it is.

I think 12 would be a pretty good number, but I'm not pounding the table for any changes. Just saying it's silly to pretend like there are only 4 teams that have a legit chance to win it all.

A team that is 9-3 and finished 3rd in its conference and finished ranked #12 on the season had a great year. But do they deserve to play for a Natty?

Well, you have to look at a lot more than just their record. What if they have the best QB in the country, and only lost those games because he was injured half the year? Should they have a chance? What if they had a lot of new pieces or new coaches, and it took them awhile to hit their stride but they dominated down the stretch? What if they played a far harder schedule than some of the teams above them with 1 or 2 losses?

Can you imagine if a basketball season had only 12 games, some of which were against scrubs out of conference, and from that they selected 4 teams out of 363 to compete for a nat'l title? LOL. Do you think they'd "get it right" consistently? I don't think anybody has any clue of who the top 4 teams are in CBB right now. You might as well just draw names from a hat.

RaidersOftheCellar · 12-13-2022, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

The SEC has won 5 of the last 7 National Championships, 11 of the last 15. You know how many the Big 12 has won in that time period?

It would seem to me they ARE clearly producing better teams than the Big 12. If they weren’t, you would occasionally see a Big 12 team win a Natty. Or at least even play for one . . . . .

I like how your data doesn’t consider on the field results.

Again, you're focusing solely on a few teams at the top of a 14 team league. They might be better at the very top, but that doesn't make the league as a whole better. And it doesn't mean that Missouri is facing a gauntlet every year, while KU is facing nobodies.

There have been some years in Big 12 basketball in which KU was facing a ranked team in every other game, including teams in the top 10. If another league has only one ranked team, but that team wins the tournament, was their league better and was the conference slate tougher?

**Bearcat** · 12-13-2022, 12:47 AM

It's absolutely mind boggling why it's taken 100 years for CFB to take the money grab and expand the playoffs... I'll never understand it, even with the lack or parity.

And if it's taken this long, I don't know why anyone would be worried about it being a slippery slope... yeah, team #13 will bitch, but if you have 3 or 4 losses, it's mostly going to fall on deaf ears.

Hopefully it helps level the playing field (which would probably take decades)... and I do agree that expanding it too quickly would water it down.

TomBarndtsTwin · 12-13-2022, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

I think 12 would be a pretty good number, but I'm not pounding the table for any changes. Just saying it's silly to pretend like there are only 4 teams that have a legit chance to win it all.

Can you imagine if a basketball season had only 12 games, some of which were against scrubs out of conference, and from that they selected 4 teams out of 363 to compete for a nat'l title? LOL. Do you think they'd "get it right" consistently? I don't think anybody has any clue of who the top 4 teams are in CBB right now. You might as well just draw names from a hat.

And, again, you can’t compare college basketball to college football. They’re two entirely different sports with different variables, inherent injury risks, physical demands, recovery time, etc. 12 basketball games is not in any way equivalent to 12 football games so not even sure why you would make that analogy.

A chance? Well sure. Every team could have a ‘chance’. But we’re talking Dumb and Dumber odds here. So what you wanna do. Put every team in FBS (120 approx.) in one giant college football playoff that goes on for 6 months to determine a champion? That way everyone got a chance. That’s reeruned thinking.

Hell, while we’re at it, let’s just expand the NCAA Tourney to 363 teams, give them all a ‘chance’ and that way every one can feel good about their participation trophy and the fact they got a shot to play for a Natty. Nevermind the fact that 85 to 90 percent of them didn’t even deserve that chance in the first place. I mean, it’s dumb enough now that college basketball basically allows about 20% of their teams into the post season tourney with a ‘chance’ to play for a Natty.

I mean, I get WHY they do it ($$$$$$), but it’s still stupid.

Pants · 12-13-2022, 01:17 AM

TBT is so damn cringe. Ughhhh.

12-07-2022, 06:13 PM
Chiefspants World's Best Boss Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bronco Country Casino cash: $3584654	***OFFICIAL 2022 Border War Hoops and HATE Thread Alright y’all! We got a game this Saturday. The reigning National Champion Jayhawks are as self-righteous as ever and coming to Columbia, where the Tigers look like they could have their best coached team since the Obama administration. Self is still figuring out his rotations (to a painful degree), and in Columbia anything can happen. This thread can also be used to talk football and how this rivalry is oh so dead, which is why a bowl game that is not** happening has arguments spilling over into Mizzou threads, KU threads, college football threads, and twitter and facebook wars all over my feed. Join me and let’s all talk about how this game doesn’t matter anymore and all angrily ask why I’m missing asterisks in the thread title. Last edited by Chiefspants; 12-08-2022 at 12:38 AM..
Posts: 19,383

12-12-2022, 10:33 PM	#616
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	“Recruiting success” Who cares? Wins and losses are all that matters
Posts: 87,025

12-13-2022, 12:47 AM	#628
Bearcat Would an idiot do that? Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Arizona Casino cash: $-945069	It's absolutely mind boggling why it's taken 100 years for CFB to take the money grab and expand the playoffs... I'll never understand it, even with the lack or parity. And if it's taken this long, I don't know why anyone would be worried about it being a slippery slope... yeah, team #13 will bitch, but if you have 3 or 4 losses, it's mostly going to fall on deaf ears. Hopefully it helps level the playing field (which would probably take decades)... and I do agree that expanding it too quickly would water it down. __________________
Posts: 59,499

12-13-2022, 01:17 AM	#630
Pants Time Keeps On Slipping Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Overland Park Casino cash: $3599900	TBT is so damn cringe. Ughhhh. __________________ "Turn the channel to 26!"
Posts: 27,415	1 0