The Carl Peterson Years.....1995

shaneo69 · 12-03-2004, 08:29 PM

7th in a series…..

UFA additions: Jeff Criswell, Rich Gannon, James Hasty, Brian Washington, Martin Bayless, Webster Slaughter, Leroy Thompson
Trade addition: Victor Bailey (for a 1995 2nd rounder)
Street free agents: Tony Richardson, Keith Traylor

Veteran losses: J.J. Birden, Derrick Graham, Jimmie Johnson, Eric Martin, Charles Mincy, David Whitmore, Arnold Ale, Ron Dickerson, Jaime Fields, Tracy Greene, Monty Grow, Lindsay Knapp, Greg Kragen, Jay Taylor, Jon Vaughn, Rob Waldrop, Bracy Walker
Retired: Joe Montana

1995 Draft

1) (pick 31 overall) Trezelle Jenkins (scouting report from Lindy’s 1995 Pro Football Annual called him “a stretch, and not just because he’s 6’7, 322. Not real dedicated and not good on technique, but the skills are there. Moves ok. If KC coaches can reach him, he can turn into a monster blocker. If not, will be a dud.” Bobby Taylor was taken 19 picks later.)

2) traded to Eagles for Victor Bailey, who was active for two games in two years with the Chiefs

3a) Tamarick Vanover (special teams playmaking ability was offset by lack of production on offense and his criminal activity; Antonio Freeman was taken 9 picks later by Green Bay)

3b) Troy Dumas (played in 13 games with no starts in his KC career; Ken Irvin, a decent CB, was taken 12 picks later)

4) Steve Stenstrom (never played for the Chiefs; quote from Lindy’s ’95 Pro Football Annual: “Stenstrom has been compared to Steve Walsh, which means his best days were in college.” Stephen Boyd and John Holecek, who both started at ILB for four years in the league, were taken in the next 10 picks)

5a) Mike Pelton, DT (never played in the NFL; DT Norman Hand was taken 3 picks later)

5b) Jerrott Willard, LB (played in one game for the Chiefs; Travis Hall, a six year starter at DT for Atlanta, was taken 17 picks later by the Falcons)

6a) Bryan Proby, DT (played in 3 games for the Chiefs; Charles Way, a good FB who was a 4 year starter for the Giants before injuries ended his career, was taken 4 picks after Proby)

6b) Tom Barndt (great pick, became 3 year starter at NT/DT, but the Chiefs coaches wasted his first two years in the league trying to turn him into a OT)

7) no pick (the Rams starting OG’s in the ’99 Super Bowl were both drafted in this round, as were solid players Chad Cota, Byron Chamberlain, Chad Eaton, Jason Fisk, and Siegried and Roy-hater Cole Ford)

1995 Starters:
S. Bono, K. Anders, M. Allen, W. Davis, L. Dawson/W. Slaughter, K. Cash, J. Alt, D. Szott, T. Grunhard, W. Shields, R. Siglar
N. Smith, D. Saleaumua, J. Phillips, V. Booker/D. Mickell, G. Jamison, T. Simien, D. Thomas, D. Carter, J. Hasty, M. Collins, B. Washington
L. Elliott, L. Aguiar

Couple notes about ’95…..it’s amazing that we were able to improve from 9-7 in Montana’s last year to 13-3 in Bono’s first year. Besides the downgrade at QB, Lake Dawson and Webster Slaughter barely matched J.J. Birden’s previous production at WR.

On defense, Gunther Cunningham replaced Dave Adolph, who moved to San Diego, and Schottenheimer totally rebuilt the secondary, adding Hasty at CB and Brian Washington at SS, and moving Mark Collins from CB to FS. Chiefs gave up the least points in the league.

Sure-Oz · 12-03-2004, 08:37 PM

Victor Bailey lol, wonder who we could've gotten in the 2nd round that year.

Miles · 12-03-2004, 08:42 PM

Wow that was a hell of a bad draft. The funny thing is i remember being optimistic about Victor Bailey for some reason.

Though the FA were solid with Criswell, Gannon, and Hasty. Oddly i was also really excited when we brought Slaughter in but he was disapointment.

shaneo69 · 12-03-2004, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

Victor Bailey lol, wonder who we could've gotten in the 2nd round that year.

Curtis Martin was taken 17 slots after the 2nd rounder we traded.

shaneo69 · 12-03-2004, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miles Teg

Wow that was a hell of a bad draft. The funny thing is i remember being optimistic about Victor Bailey for some reason.

Though the FA were solid with Criswell, Gannon, and Hasty. Oddly i was also really excited when we brought Slaughter in but he was disapointment.

Yeah, after catching 68 passes with Houston in '94, Slaughter only caught half that many with us in '95.

Miles · 12-03-2004, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaneo69

Yeah, after catching 68 passes with Houston in '94, Slaughter only caught half that many with us in '95.

Its been a long time but I seem to remember him having some problems with his hands. He basically was just a player who's numbers were inflated by the Oilers run and shoot offesnse. Though in '94 they had horrible QB's throwing to him.

MonroeChief · 12-03-2004, 09:02 PM

You have pointed out what you feel is the bad draft by the Chiefs. What you barely mention is that they were 13-3. The comment about Joe Montana was worthless, the whole team attitude while Joe was there was "Let Joe do it". The camp that year was grueling, if the Chiefs had have worked as hard Joe's last year they would have been in the Superbowl.

To be totally fair you need to do an analysis for all of the NFL teams for that year. What you will find is that there were some good players taken in the draft (as you pointed out next to the picks you felt were losers) as well as bad players taken, and that is across the board.

The draft couldn't have been that bad, it netted the Chiefs a 13-3 season. The coaching was the lynch pin in the failure that year (and every year that Shottenheimer was at the helm). His mode was very agressive in the regular season, but very conservative in the playoffs. That cost us the whole time he was there. The one time the Chiefs got to the AFC Championship the driving force was Joe Montana (which led to the "Let Joe do it" attitude.)

Basically I'm saying that your report is biased and unfair. I understand your point of view, but you are attacking CP because he drafted and traded for players resulting in a 13-3 record. What's up with that?

shaneo69 · 12-03-2004, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miles Teg

Its been a long time but I seem to remember him having some problems with his hands. He basically was just a player who's numbers were inflated by the Oilers run and shoot offesnse. Though in '94 they had horrible QB's throwing to him.

Well, he also had 65 and 64 catch seasons with the Browns, and they weren't running the run-and-shoot.

**alpha_omega** · 12-03-2004, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Chiefs gave up the least points in the league.

Ahhh...the good old days.

shaneo69 · 12-03-2004, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonroeChief

You have pointed out what you feel is the bad draft by the Chiefs. What you barely mention is that they were 13-3. The comment about Joe Montana was worthless, the whole team attitude while Joe was there was "Let Joe do it". The camp that year was grueling, if the Chiefs had have worked as hard Joe's last year they would have been in the Superbowl.

To be totally fair you need to do an analysis for all of the NFL teams for that year. What you will find is that there were some good players taken in the draft (as you pointed out next to the picks you felt were losers) as well as bad players taken, and that is across the board.

The draft couldn't have been that bad, it netted the Chiefs a 13-3 season. The coaching was the lynch pin in the failure that year (and every year that Shottenheimer was at the helm). His mode was very agressive in the regular season, but very conservative in the playoffs. That cost us the whole time he was there. The one time the Chiefs got to the AFC Championship the driving force was Joe Montana (which led to the "Let Joe do it" attitude.)

Basically I'm saying that your report is biased and unfair. I understand your point of view, but you are attacking CP because he drafted and traded for players resulting in a 13-3 record. What's up with that?

You're coming in a little late. I've been doing summaries like this for each of Peterson's seasons with the Chiefs, and it just turns out that I'm up to 1995 this week. The 1994 summary was posted about two weeks ago.

I've already gone through the whole "biased and unfair" complaint with other planeteers during previous summaries. If you feel like going back to the start and reading all the summaries, the 1989 season was posted on 10/26/04. If you choose to go back and look, you'll see I'm not criticizing the '95 draft by itself, but rather Peterson's collection of 16 drafts taken as a whole.

MonroeChief · 12-03-2004, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaneo69

You're coming in a little late. I've been doing summaries like this for each of Peterson's seasons with the Chiefs, and it just turns out that I'm up to 1995 this week. The 1994 summary was posted about two weeks ago.

I've already gone through the whole "biased and unfair" complaint with other planeteers during previous summaries. If you feel like going back to the start and reading all the summaries, the 1989 season was posted on 10/26/04. If you choose to go back and look, you'll see I'm not criticizing the '95 draft by itself, but rather Peterson's collection of 16 drafts taken as a whole.

You didn't understand what I said. You are comparing the Chiefs against the Chiefs. Compare them and their drafts against the rest of the league. Compare all teams for the '95 draft and leave the per pick commentary. What you will find is that the Chiefs are on par with the rest of the league.

BigChiefFan · 12-03-2004, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonroeChief

You didn't understand what I said. You are comparing the Chiefs against the Chiefs. Compare them and their drafts against the rest of the league. Compare all teams for the '95 draft and leave the per pick commentary. What you will find is that the Chiefs are on par with the rest of the league.

When you only draft 3 stars in 16 years you aren't par with the rest of the league. I just can't get over how many people actually defend Carl's draft history.

shaneo69 · 12-03-2004, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonroeChief

You didn't understand what I said. You are comparing the Chiefs against the Chiefs. Compare them and their drafts against the rest of the league. Compare all teams for the '95 draft and leave the per pick commentary. What you will find is that the Chiefs are on par with the rest of the league.

Like I've told others who have requested similar research.....I don't care about other teams, and I definitely don't have the time to do it. If Lamar wants to pay me $40k to objectively review Carl's results against all other teams during the past 16 years, then I'd be glad to put in the effort. Or if you feel like doing it for objectivity's sake, then be my guest.

Another thing I've already mentioned to others like you is that I'm sure if you were able to come up with some universally accepted ranking of each teams' drafts, Carl would finish ahead of teams like the Bengals, Cardinals, and possibly a few others. But to quote another planeteer, better than bad does not equal good.

Finally, if you want to be completely objective in comparing Carl with his peers, please let me know of another GM who's been with the same team for the past 16 years, and I'd be glad to compare them side by side. Unfortunately, other GM's who don't get their team to the Super Bowl get fired long before they've been with that team for 16 years.

ChiefsCountry · 12-03-2004, 10:13 PM

We traded Victor Bailey to the Eagles for their second round pick in which they used it on Bobby Taylor.

MonroeChief · 12-03-2004, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

When you only draft 3 stars in 16 years you aren't par with the rest of the league. I just can't get over how many people actually defend Carl's draft history.

Try looking at the W-L record for the past 16 years, that might give you a clue. Compare that W-L record for the previous 16 years. (and with the same GM - Steadman)

12-03-2004, 08:29 PM
shaneo69 Smug Weasel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bleachers at Busch Casino cash: $10004900	The Carl Peterson Years.....1995 7th in a series….. UFA additions: Jeff Criswell, Rich Gannon, James Hasty, Brian Washington, Martin Bayless, Webster Slaughter, Leroy Thompson Trade addition: Victor Bailey (for a 1995 2nd rounder) Street free agents: Tony Richardson, Keith Traylor Veteran losses: J.J. Birden, Derrick Graham, Jimmie Johnson, Eric Martin, Charles Mincy, David Whitmore, Arnold Ale, Ron Dickerson, Jaime Fields, Tracy Greene, Monty Grow, Lindsay Knapp, Greg Kragen, Jay Taylor, Jon Vaughn, Rob Waldrop, Bracy Walker Retired: Joe Montana 1995 Draft 1) (pick 31 overall) Trezelle Jenkins (scouting report from Lindy’s 1995 Pro Football Annual called him “a stretch, and not just because he’s 6’7, 322. Not real dedicated and not good on technique, but the skills are there. Moves ok. If KC coaches can reach him, he can turn into a monster blocker. If not, will be a dud.” Bobby Taylor was taken 19 picks later.) 2) traded to Eagles for Victor Bailey, who was active for two games in two years with the Chiefs 3a) Tamarick Vanover (special teams playmaking ability was offset by lack of production on offense and his criminal activity; Antonio Freeman was taken 9 picks later by Green Bay) 3b) Troy Dumas (played in 13 games with no starts in his KC career; Ken Irvin, a decent CB, was taken 12 picks later) 4) Steve Stenstrom (never played for the Chiefs; quote from Lindy’s ’95 Pro Football Annual: “Stenstrom has been compared to Steve Walsh, which means his best days were in college.” Stephen Boyd and John Holecek, who both started at ILB for four years in the league, were taken in the next 10 picks) 5a) Mike Pelton, DT (never played in the NFL; DT Norman Hand was taken 3 picks later) 5b) Jerrott Willard, LB (played in one game for the Chiefs; Travis Hall, a six year starter at DT for Atlanta, was taken 17 picks later by the Falcons) 6a) Bryan Proby, DT (played in 3 games for the Chiefs; Charles Way, a good FB who was a 4 year starter for the Giants before injuries ended his career, was taken 4 picks after Proby) 6b) Tom Barndt (great pick, became 3 year starter at NT/DT, but the Chiefs coaches wasted his first two years in the league trying to turn him into a OT) 7) no pick (the Rams starting OG’s in the ’99 Super Bowl were both drafted in this round, as were solid players Chad Cota, Byron Chamberlain, Chad Eaton, Jason Fisk, and Siegried and Roy-hater Cole Ford) 1995 Starters: S. Bono, K. Anders, M. Allen, W. Davis, L. Dawson/W. Slaughter, K. Cash, J. Alt, D. Szott, T. Grunhard, W. Shields, R. Siglar N. Smith, D. Saleaumua, J. Phillips, V. Booker/D. Mickell, G. Jamison, T. Simien, D. Thomas, D. Carter, J. Hasty, M. Collins, B. Washington L. Elliott, L. Aguiar Couple notes about ’95…..it’s amazing that we were able to improve from 9-7 in Montana’s last year to 13-3 in Bono’s first year. Besides the downgrade at QB, Lake Dawson and Webster Slaughter barely matched J.J. Birden’s previous production at WR. On defense, Gunther Cunningham replaced Dave Adolph, who moved to San Diego, and Schottenheimer totally rebuilt the secondary, adding Hasty at CB and Brian Washington at SS, and moving Mark Collins from CB to FS. Chiefs gave up the least points in the league.
Posts: 4,910

12-03-2004, 08:42 PM	#3
Miles MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Casino cash: $1392400	Wow that was a hell of a bad draft. The funny thing is i remember being optimistic about Victor Bailey for some reason. Though the FA were solid with Criswell, Gannon, and Hasty. Oddly i was also really excited when we brought Slaughter in but he was disapointment.
Posts: 14,522

12-03-2004, 09:02 PM	#7
MonroeChief Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Casino cash: $10004900	You have pointed out what you feel is the bad draft by the Chiefs. What you barely mention is that they were 13-3. The comment about Joe Montana was worthless, the whole team attitude while Joe was there was "Let Joe do it". The camp that year was grueling, if the Chiefs had have worked as hard Joe's last year they would have been in the Superbowl. To be totally fair you need to do an analysis for all of the NFL teams for that year. What you will find is that there were some good players taken in the draft (as you pointed out next to the picks you felt were losers) as well as bad players taken, and that is across the board. The draft couldn't have been that bad, it netted the Chiefs a 13-3 season. The coaching was the lynch pin in the failure that year (and every year that Shottenheimer was at the helm). His mode was very agressive in the regular season, but very conservative in the playoffs. That cost us the whole time he was there. The one time the Chiefs got to the AFC Championship the driving force was Joe Montana (which led to the "Let Joe do it" attitude.) Basically I'm saying that your report is biased and unfair. I understand your point of view, but you are attacking CP because he drafted and traded for players resulting in a 13-3 record. What's up with that?
Posts: 161

12-03-2004, 10:13 PM	#14
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $2038752	We traded Victor Bailey to the Eagles for their second round pick in which they used it on Bobby Taylor.
Posts: 49,756