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Old 05-06-2005, 10:56 AM  
Mr. Laz Mr. Laz is offline
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Memo: Bush made intel fit Iraq policy

Posted on Fri, May. 06, 2005
Memo: Bush made intel fit Iraq policy
By WARREN P. STROBEL and JOHN WALCOTT
Knight Ridder Newspapers


WASHINGTON - A highly classified British memo, leaked in the midst of Britain's just-concluded election campaign, indicates that President Bush decided to overthrow Iraqi President Saddam Hussein by summer 2002 and was determined to ensure that U.S. intelligence data supported his policy.

The document, which summarizes a July 23, 2002, meeting of British Prime Minister Tony Blair with his top security advisers, reports on a visit to Washington by the head of Britain's MI-6 intelligence service.

The visit took place while the Bush administration was still declaring to the American public that no decision had been made to go to war.

"There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable," the MI-6 chief said at the meeting, according to the memo. "Bush wanted to remove Saddam through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD," weapons of mass destruction.

The memo said "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

No weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq since the U.S. invasion in March 2003.

The White House has repeatedly denied accusations made by several top foreign officials that it manipulated intelligence estimates to justify an invasion of Iraq.

It has instead pointed to the conclusions of two studies, one by the Senate Intelligence Committee and one by a presidentially appointed panel, that cite serious failures by the CIA and other agencies in judging Saddam's weapons programs.

The principal U.S. intelligence analysis, called a National Intelligence Estimate, wasn't completed until October 2002, well after the United States and United Kingdom had apparently decided military force should be used to overthrow Saddam's regime.

The newly disclosed memo, which was first reported by the Sunday Times of London, hasn't been disavowed by the British government. A spokesman for the British Embassy in Washington referred queries to another official, who didn't return calls for comment on Thursday.

A former senior U.S. official called it "an absolutely accurate description of what transpired" during the senior British intelligence officer's visit to Washington. He spoke on condition of anonymity.

A White House official said the administration wouldn't comment on leaked British documents.

In July 2002, and well afterward, top Bush administration foreign policy advisers were insisting that "there are no plans to attack Iraq on the president's desk."

But the memo quotes British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, a close colleague of then-Secretary of State Colin Powell, as saying that "Bush had made up his mind to take military action."

Straw is quoted as having his doubts about the Iraqi threat.

"But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbors, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran," the memo reported he said.

Straw reportedly proposed that Saddam be given an ultimatum to readmit United Nations weapons inspectors, which could help justify the eventual use of force.

Powell in August 2002 persuaded Bush to make the case against Saddam at the United Nations and to push for renewed weapons inspections.

But there were deep divisions within the White House over that course of action. The British document says that the National Security Council, then led by Condoleezza Rice, "had no patience with the U.N. route."

Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the leading Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, is circulating a letter among fellow Democrats asking Bush for an explanation of the document's charges, an aide said.
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Old 05-06-2005, 03:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee
Thing is, support for the war wasn't a marginal decision. There weren't a ton of people saying "well I don't want to go, but the [sexed up] details demand my begrudging consent.
People who were against it didn't believe anything Bush said, whether it's about WMD, nuke aspirations, contacts and support for terror, and when it came to abuses on his own people they didn't think that was worth it.
People who were for the war, were for it for humanitarian, WMD, terror, foothold in the region and any other number of reasons.
And now that the WMD haven't surfaced, people who never believed that they were there in the first place are agitated that people who saw it as only ONE of the reasons for the war aren't more exorcised.
There ya go, couldn’t have said it better myself.
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Old 05-06-2005, 03:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee
Thing is, support for the war wasn't a marginal decision. There weren't a ton of people saying "well I don't want to go, but the [sexed up] details demand my begrudging consent.
People who were against it didn't believe anything Bush said, whether it's about WMD, nuke aspirations, contacts and support for terror, and when it came to abuses on his own people they didn't think that was worth it.
People who were for the war, were for it for humanitarian, WMD, terror, foothold in the region and any other number of reasons.
And now that the WMD haven't surfaced, people who never believed that they were there in the first place are agitated that people who saw it as only ONE of the reasons for the war aren't more exorcised.
It's amazing (but not really) how easily you are willing to re-write history to justify your postion. To suggest that people either supported it or not without a middle ground is a joke.

And to suggest that there were no people who at the time were undecided and eventually persuaded by any number of (what turned out to be) false, deliberately misleading or bogus statements to support the case for war by the administration is shameful because it's such an irrational view of the world or of human nature, let alone the facts at the time.

You provide a perfect illustration of my objections to Bush supporters with this post. Kudos.
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Old 05-06-2005, 03:30 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd
I take that to mean the decision to use the military option was being based on the facts and intelligience.

I agree it could be read in different ways, but there is no proof the writer of the memo was saying the US was purposely skewing facts and intelligience. To assume that as fact is being just plain biased.
To attempt to deny that there was no personal bias in the decision making by the Bush leadership is to ignore what's right in front of your face (and has been there for nearly 4 years now).
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Old 05-06-2005, 03:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ
To attempt to deny that there was no personal bias in the decision making by the Bush leadership is to ignore what's right in front of your face (and has been there for nearly 4 years now).
I simply don't give a fug.
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Old 05-06-2005, 03:51 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by bunnytrdr
I simply don't give a fug.
I'm sure that's true. That's the part that creates the most disappointment for me in Republicans... you aren't alone.
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Old 05-06-2005, 03:57 PM   #21
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
Do you speak French?

Montreal or Paris are really nice this time of the century...

I enjoy my home, thanks very much. But congrats for joining the "love it (my way) or leave it" crowd.

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Old 05-06-2005, 04:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ
It's amazing (but not really) how easily you are willing to re-write history to justify your postion. To suggest that people either supported it or not without a middle ground is a joke.

And to suggest that there were no people who at the time were undecided and eventually persuaded by any number of (what turned out to be) false, deliberately misleading or bogus statements to support the case for war by the administration is shameful because it's such an irrational view of the world or of human nature, let alone the facts at the time.

You provide a perfect illustration of my objections to Bush supporters with this post. Kudos.

What I find funny is everything you say about republicans is exactly what you do. Hell this article has no factual basis except opinion and you are making it come off as factual basis and the only truth... Everything you say or type is first started by hatred of Bush and Republicans.. You deliberately skew every fact, to villianize anything that does not equate to your belief system. So keep it up kettle..
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Old 05-06-2005, 04:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ
To attempt to deny that there was no personal bias in the decision making by the Bush leadership is to ignore what's right in front of your face (and has been there for nearly 4 years now).

That is what you do with every post... You use bias of your hatred to skew what is written...
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Old 05-06-2005, 04:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiant
What I find funny is everything you say about republicans is exactly what you do. Hell this article has no factual basis except opinion and you are making it come off as factual basis and the only truth... Everything you say or type is first started by hatred of Bush and Republicans.. You deliberately skew every fact, to villianize anything that does not equate to your belief system. So keep it up kettle..
It's evidence. Nothing more, but NOTHING less. It exists, just like all of the other evidence. Why keep denying it?
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Old 05-06-2005, 04:10 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiant
That is what you do with every post... You use bias of your hatred to skew what is written...
If only Bush were confident enough in his ACTUAL position (invade Iraq regardless of their WMD programs)...

If only Bush trusted the country to make the right choice even IF he was completely forthcoming with ALL the evidence and mixed opinions...

If only I were running this country...

... but alas, he wasn't, he didn't and I'm not.

I just can't belive that the same people who wanted to hold Clinton to a certain standard of honesty and forthrightness, now stands by and supports (blindly) an administration...

... without even QUESTIONING the evidence in front of them. With no concern about what it means if the evidence that exists turns out to in fact support reality...

... nope... Republicans "don't give a fug".

Our nation deserves more than that.
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Old 05-06-2005, 04:16 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jAZ
I enjoy my home, thanks very much. But congrats for joining the "love it (my way) or leave it" crowd.

I didn't use to think that way. However, with so much hatred and venom--and the level of your anger....I can't imagine staying. Seriously.

If I felt the contempt and seething hatred you obviously feel for the country and our leaders, I'd consider moving. I'm not kidding.
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Old 05-06-2005, 04:23 PM   #27
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
... the contempt and seething hatred you obviously feel for the country ...
You are at this exact moment ... and I think this is the first time I've felt this way ... completely full of $hit.

The day Bush and his blind appologists become "the country", I'll move.

49% of the country agrees with me in saying you are full of $hit. Choosing to be blind to even the mere existance of the "other half" is as shameful as anything else.

Seriously.

Last edited by jAZ; 05-06-2005 at 04:32 PM..
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Old 05-06-2005, 04:26 PM   #28
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ
49% of the country agrees with me
Given the last round of Bush job-approval ratings, I'd say that number is much higher than 49% post election.
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Old 05-06-2005, 04:33 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ
I'm sure that's true. That's the part that creates the most disappointment for me in Republicans... you aren't alone.
You do realize that for many people (not just Republicans) we needed to clean up the mess in Iraq and that is what they mean when they say they just don't give a fug about the rationalizations against the war.
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Old 05-06-2005, 04:37 PM   #30
Logical Logical is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
I didn't use to think that way. However, with so much hatred and venom--and the level of your anger....I can't imagine staying. Seriously.

If I felt the contempt and seething hatred you obviously feel for the country and our leaders, I'd consider moving. I'm not kidding.
Let me for once defend jaz on a political topic. I have until this offseason hated Carl Peterson and pretty much everything the front office did. I still loved the Chiefs and wanted better for them. I think this is similar to what jaz is experiencing politically. He still loves his country and his home he is just dissappointed and angry with the way it is being managed. I can respect that while disagreeing with him.
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