Dean: Green ready; Collins, Brister battling for No. 2

keg in kc · 08-09-2001, 12:39 PM

[url=http://chiefszone.com/stories/080901/foo_green.shtml]Green ready; Collins, Brister battling for No. 2[/url]

Quarterbacks: Vermeil: 'I'm going to treat (Green) as if he's never been injured'

By Rick Dean
The Capital-Journal

RIVER FALLS, Wis. -- Trent Green and his healing left knee won't receive any special treatment when he makes his first appearance as the Kansas City Chiefs new quarterback Sunday night in the preseason opener against Washington at Arrowhead.
Coach Dick Vermeil said Wednesday that Green will play in the first quarter, then be removed with the rest of the first team offense. But concerns about Green's surgically repaired knee will not dictate his playing time.

"I'm going to treat him as if he's never been injured," Vermeil said. "You can't coach running scared. You can try and be intelligent about it, but he has to play to get ready.

"The players have to feel his presence and gain a level of confidence in his leadership and his ability to perform under pressure. The only way you can do that is in game situations. Since it's a new program and a new team, I think he's got to play at least a quarter of all four preseason games. I might play him a little more later on."

There is one thing, Vermeil added, that might induce him to limit Green's playing time in the preseason.

"The better it's going and the sharper he looks, the less he'll play," he said.

Of equal concern to the Chiefs is identifying the backup quarterback between Todd Collins and Bubby Brister.

Collins is currently listed as No. 2 on the team's official depth chart, but he has been hot and cold throughout this camp. Brister, 39, has moments when he turns nothing plays into positive ones, but in working generally with second- and third-line units, he has been largely inconsistent.

"I can't tell you which guy is the best right now," Vermeil said. "There are pros and cons on both side, and on game-day will decide it.

"Bubby is one of those impromptu, broken play-big play kind of guys. Todd is more of a disciplined guy who will stay within the scheme. He'll stay with a play even if it means getting sacked. I'm really anxious to watch them both play."

Collins, who hasn't taken a snap in three years as a Chiefs reserve after having been Buffalo's starter in 1997, will play the second quarter and into the third, Vermeil said. Brister will finish the game.

"Todd and Bubby both need playing time," Vermeil said. "Todd hasn't played football in a long time; neither has Bubby. Which guy is going to be designated as the second guy will depend on how they do in each preseason game and what we've watched as they mature in this program. I'm not disappointed in Todd, and I'm pleased with Bubby."

[b]Notes[/b]

Center-quarterback exchanges, the most elementary play in football, continue to be a problem for the Chiefs.

Often the problem involves second-team center Brian Waters -- a college tight end whom the Dallas Cowboys tried to make a defensive end -- and veteran QB Bubby Brister. But Wednesday morning, starters Casey Wiegmann and Trent Green also had a problem.

"It's a terrible problem, more than I've ever seen," Vermeil said. "You could go to the first high school football games all through this valley and not see a center-quarterback exchange problem. More often than not, it's been the same center and the same quarterback. But we've got to be able to rely on (the snap). If you can't, you won't play."

• Former Rams cornerback Taje Allen, playing Wednesday afternoon with the first-team defense when starter Ray Crockett sat out several drills, had a big practice. He deflected several passes in close quarters and played solid coverage throughout the day.

• The battle for kicker continues to be close between incumbent Todd Peterson and rookie challenger Lawrence Tynes.

"Peterson probably has the edge now based on experience," Vermeil said, "but when you watch them kick, they're pretty even."

• Rookie running back Derrick Blaylock got some reps with the first team in a goal-line drill Wednesday morning. One of the team's quickest players, he beat everyone to the corner and scored untouched on one play.

• The Chiefs offense unveiled its "empty backfield" look -- a five-receiver package with no one but the quarterback in the backfield. The first time they ran it Tuesday afternoon, defensive end Duane Clemons batted down a pass at the line, and the defense in general handled the five receivers handily.

Mark M · 08-09-2001, 01:05 PM

This entire post almost tears me in two.

I'd like to see a veteran as a backup just due to experience, yet would like to see a younger guy get a chance to prove himself. But I've got a bad feeling that neither one is really all that great being a #2 QB, especially if Bubby can't get the damned snap correct (although this has been a problem in camp, I hear. Kinda odd ... )

[quote]and the defense in general handled the five receivers handily.[/quote]
I don't know if this is a good or bad thing.

It's good in that our secondary may be stronger than we thought. It's bad in that is shows how thin we are at WR.

MM
~~Filled with mixed emotions.

htismaqe · 08-09-2001, 01:59 PM

I just hope that whoever wins the #2 job (Collins) is the only one of the two we keep. Give the #3 job to Helming.

Packfan · 08-09-2001, 02:35 PM

If Green gets hurt, I dont think the Chiefs can win a game with the sorry group of back ups they have.

Mark M · 08-09-2001, 02:45 PM

Packfan--
For once, a post of yours that I completely agree with. :eek:

Although none of us know exactly what Collins is capapble of, I think we've all got a good feeling that there is a reason he was behind Moon last year. Of course, I said before we got Green that we should save some $$ and draft picks and just start Collins, sink or swim. Now that Bubby is outperforming Collins (or so the word is), I'm glad no one listens to me.

I've got a funny feeling that either Collins or Brister will be gone before the season starts ... isn't there an Arena League QB that Vermeil likes out there? ;)

MM
~~Finding common ground.

htismaqe · 08-09-2001, 03:23 PM

I wouldn't say Brister is outperforming Collins...so far Vermeil has praised Collins several times...I hope they cut Bubby...

I don't think the Moon/Collins thing had anything to do with talent. It had to with Gun and his obsession with loyalty to the "good ole boys". Carl probably forced him to play Grbac, or Moon would have been our starter all along...

Lightning Rod · 08-09-2001, 03:40 PM

The whole Collins thing has me scratching my head. He was at one time considered an up and coming QB. Was said to have all the physical tools necessary to be a legitimate NFL QB. I was pleased with the pick up 3 or 4 years ago? The Chiefs signed him to a 3 or 5 year contract last year. But in all the time he has been here he has never even made it to 2nd string. What gives? Shouldn't he have developed by now?

Clint in Wichita · 08-09-2001, 03:45 PM

Who knows? Grbac was "developing" until the day he left KC.

htismaqe · 08-09-2001, 03:46 PM

Yes, he SHOULD be developed by now. However, when you consider who should have been responsible for developing him, it's easy to understand how he fell through the cracks...

keg in kc · 08-09-2001, 07:40 PM

Name me more than 4 or 5 teams that could win with the sorry group of backups (or starters...) that they have.

[b]Arizona:[/b] Jake Plummer goes down and it's Doug Brown, Chris Greisen or Sean Keenan.
[b]Atlanta:[/b] Chandler goes down and maybe Mike Vick comes in (like him or not, he's not ready...), but chances are you see Eric Zeier or Doug Johnson
[b]Baltimore:[/b] Elvis leaves the building, and in comes Chris Redmon (zilch experience) or B-more's poor man's Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham.
[b]Buffalo:[/b] Rob Johnson is backed up by Alex Van Pelt and Pete Gonzalez.
[b]Carolina:[/b] Doesn't even have a proven starter in the Jeff Lewis, Chris Weinke, Dameyune Craig rotation.
[b]Chicago:[/b] A couple of average, at best, guys in Miller and Matthews, with McNown thrown in.
[b]Cincinnati:[/b] Take your pick: John Kitna, Akili Smith, Scott Mitchell or Scott Covington. Ouch.
[b]Cleveland:[/b] Tim Couch, Kelly Holcomb, Ty Detmer and Spurgon Wynn. Well, Couch might not suck.
[b]Dallas:[/b] Tony Banks, Anthony Wright, Quincy Carter, and Clint Stoener...
[b]Denver:[/b] Ahh, finally a decent group, the best IMHO with Brian Griese, Gus Frerotte and Steve Beuerlein. Too bad they're the exception and not the rule.
[b]Detroit:[/b] Charlie Batch, "Captain Comeback" himself and Cory Sauter. Yawn.
[b]Green Bay:[/b] Sooo, Brett Favre goes down, say hello to Doug Pederson, Billy Joe Tolliver or maybe Henry Burris. Anyone see any wins from that bunch? I sure don't...

Anyway, you get my point. A dozen teams, and what, one, maybe two half-decent backups in the whole bunch?

Welcome to the modern NFL ladies, where a good quarterback is a privilege, not a right. We're lucky to maybe have a decent starter, because frankly there are 8 or 10 teams out there who don't even have that. I understand wanting to have the best squad we can have, but be realistic - when there's only 15-20 really solid quarterbacks in the entire NFL, what are the odds that we're going to have 2 of them on the roster, especially when you consider the fact that we're still paying EG 3 million dollars while he's starting for the Ravens (wouldn't [i]that[/i] be nice to spend on some players - nice move Carl...)

Nearly every team is 1 hit away from disaster, we're not alone in that. It's sad -- very sad -- but true.

Otter · 08-09-2001, 07:52 PM

Hell of a time to be developing a young QB huh!

[img]http://borgman.enquirer.com/img/daily/1999/08/080999borgman_150x92.jpg[/img]

Frazod · 08-09-2001, 07:56 PM

We should all say a prayer for Green, his knee and all his other body parts every night as long as we've got these two reerunS backing him up. Our two worst off season moves were (a) keeping Collins and (b) signing Brister. We should have tried to get Dilfer as a back-up when he was available and them let the other two idiots fight it out for the doomsday spot.

The good news - if Trent goes down, we'll be drafting really, really high in 2002. The bad news - enduring 2001.

keg in kc · 08-09-2001, 07:56 PM

I'm alone in this otter, but I'm *happy* we didn't draft a QB this year. That may have been the most pathetic bunch of no-talent, braindead pieces of crap I've ever seen in a draft. I could name maybe two or three quarterbacks worth even thinking about drafting, and they were all taken way, way, way too high.

If we don't draft one next year, though, I'm gonna be real p!ssed. There's (probably...) going to be some real doozies coming out, and to miss a shot at one, at drafting a legitimate franchise-calibre QBotF, would be a mammoth mistake, IMHO...

Rounds 1 and 2 should be a RBotF (unless someone really steps up this season) and a QBotF. Get a solid WR or two through FA, draft or trade, and bolster the defense where it needs it through FA and draft. We're not that far away IMHO.

Kyle's plan for 2002...

keg in kc · 08-09-2001, 07:59 PM

'zod, Dilfer ain't any better than Collins (as bad as that may be...). The guy can't hit the broad side of a barn with an M-1 tank from 6 feet away. Baltimore won despite that loser, and picking him up to run an offense where things like "accuracy" and "reading defenses" are important might have been impetus enough to get me to pack my bags and forget football for good.

**Rausch** · 08-09-2001, 08:01 PM

I still don't even know why we signed Bubby...that just mistyfies me.....

Collins looked better than average the season he came to arrowhead and almost led the hapless Bills to a comeback. He looked poised, accurate, and averall like he had potential as at least a solid no 2 guy....

Let him get going in the preseason and I think he'll win the 2 job easy. Release Bubby and sign the best Arena league/nfl Europe/XFL reject still available at no 3. I don't care what team you are, if you're down to the no 3 qb you've got enough problems that you DON'T HAVE A CHANCE IN HELL of winning anyway...

At least takeing a long shot is better than standing pat with a below average geezer....:mad:

08-09-2001, 12:39 PM
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Dean: Green ready; Collins, Brister battling for No. 2 [url=http://chiefszone.com/stories/080901/foo_green.shtml]Green ready; Collins, Brister battling for No. 2[/url] Quarterbacks: Vermeil: 'I'm going to treat (Green) as if he's never been injured' By Rick Dean The Capital-Journal RIVER FALLS, Wis. -- Trent Green and his healing left knee won't receive any special treatment when he makes his first appearance as the Kansas City Chiefs new quarterback Sunday night in the preseason opener against Washington at Arrowhead. Coach Dick Vermeil said Wednesday that Green will play in the first quarter, then be removed with the rest of the first team offense. But concerns about Green's surgically repaired knee will not dictate his playing time. "I'm going to treat him as if he's never been injured," Vermeil said. "You can't coach running scared. You can try and be intelligent about it, but he has to play to get ready. "The players have to feel his presence and gain a level of confidence in his leadership and his ability to perform under pressure. The only way you can do that is in game situations. Since it's a new program and a new team, I think he's got to play at least a quarter of all four preseason games. I might play him a little more later on." There is one thing, Vermeil added, that might induce him to limit Green's playing time in the preseason. "The better it's going and the sharper he looks, the less he'll play," he said. Of equal concern to the Chiefs is identifying the backup quarterback between Todd Collins and Bubby Brister. Collins is currently listed as No. 2 on the team's official depth chart, but he has been hot and cold throughout this camp. Brister, 39, has moments when he turns nothing plays into positive ones, but in working generally with second- and third-line units, he has been largely inconsistent. "I can't tell you which guy is the best right now," Vermeil said. "There are pros and cons on both side, and on game-day will decide it. "Bubby is one of those impromptu, broken play-big play kind of guys. Todd is more of a disciplined guy who will stay within the scheme. He'll stay with a play even if it means getting sacked. I'm really anxious to watch them both play." Collins, who hasn't taken a snap in three years as a Chiefs reserve after having been Buffalo's starter in 1997, will play the second quarter and into the third, Vermeil said. Brister will finish the game. "Todd and Bubby both need playing time," Vermeil said. "Todd hasn't played football in a long time; neither has Bubby. Which guy is going to be designated as the second guy will depend on how they do in each preseason game and what we've watched as they mature in this program. I'm not disappointed in Todd, and I'm pleased with Bubby." [b]Notes[/b] Center-quarterback exchanges, the most elementary play in football, continue to be a problem for the Chiefs. Often the problem involves second-team center Brian Waters -- a college tight end whom the Dallas Cowboys tried to make a defensive end -- and veteran QB Bubby Brister. But Wednesday morning, starters Casey Wiegmann and Trent Green also had a problem. "It's a terrible problem, more than I've ever seen," Vermeil said. "You could go to the first high school football games all through this valley and not see a center-quarterback exchange problem. More often than not, it's been the same center and the same quarterback. But we've got to be able to rely on (the snap). If you can't, you won't play." • Former Rams cornerback Taje Allen, playing Wednesday afternoon with the first-team defense when starter Ray Crockett sat out several drills, had a big practice. He deflected several passes in close quarters and played solid coverage throughout the day. • The battle for kicker continues to be close between incumbent Todd Peterson and rookie challenger Lawrence Tynes. "Peterson probably has the edge now based on experience," Vermeil said, "but when you watch them kick, they're pretty even." • Rookie running back Derrick Blaylock got some reps with the first team in a goal-line drill Wednesday morning. One of the team's quickest players, he beat everyone to the corner and scored untouched on one play. • The Chiefs offense unveiled its "empty backfield" look -- a five-receiver package with no one but the quarterback in the backfield. The first time they ran it Tuesday afternoon, defensive end Duane Clemons batted down a pass at the line, and the defense in general handled the five receivers handily.
Posts: 58,682

08-09-2001, 01:05 PM	#2
Mark M What time is it? Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: You tell me ... Casino cash: $9884900	This entire post almost tears me in two. I'd like to see a veteran as a backup just due to experience, yet would like to see a younger guy get a chance to prove himself. But I've got a bad feeling that neither one is really all that great being a #2 QB, especially if Bubby can't get the damned snap correct (although this has been a problem in camp, I hear. Kinda odd ... ) [quote]and the defense in general handled the five receivers handily.[/quote] I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. It's good in that our secondary may be stronger than we thought. It's bad in that is shows how thin we are at WR. MM ~~Filled with mixed emotions. __________________ ChiefsPlanet -- n. The place where brilliant minds assemble to willfully pool ignorance with questionable logic in order to reach absurd conclusions. Last edited by Mark M; 08-09-2001 at 01:08 PM..
Posts: 4,687

08-09-2001, 02:35 PM	#4
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	If Green gets hurt, I dont think the Chiefs can win a game with the sorry group of back ups they have. __________________ Ken Dienberg
Posts: 938

08-09-2001, 02:45 PM	#5
Mark M What time is it? Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: You tell me ... Casino cash: $9884900	Packfan-- For once, a post of yours that I completely agree with. :eek: Although none of us know exactly what Collins is capapble of, I think we've all got a good feeling that there is a reason he was behind Moon last year. Of course, I said before we got Green that we should save some $$ and draft picks and just start Collins, sink or swim. Now that Bubby is outperforming Collins (or so the word is), I'm glad no one listens to me. I've got a funny feeling that either Collins or Brister will be gone before the season starts ... isn't there an Arena League QB that Vermeil likes out there? ;) MM ~~Finding common ground. __________________ ChiefsPlanet -- n. The place where brilliant minds assemble to willfully pool ignorance with questionable logic in order to reach absurd conclusions.
Posts: 4,687

08-09-2001, 03:23 PM	#6
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	I wouldn't say Brister is outperforming Collins...so far Vermeil has praised Collins several times...I hope they cut Bubby... I don't think the Moon/Collins thing had anything to do with talent. It had to with Gun and his obsession with loyalty to the "good ole boys". Carl probably forced him to play Grbac, or Moon would have been our starter all along...
Posts: 100,022

08-09-2001, 01:59 PM	#3
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	I just hope that whoever wins the #2 job (Collins) is the only one of the two we keep. Give the #3 job to Helming.
Posts: 100,022

08-09-2001, 03:40 PM	#7
Lightning Rod Need a new title Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Prairie Village Casino cash: $10004900	The whole Collins thing has me scratching my head. He was at one time considered an up and coming QB. Was said to have all the physical tools necessary to be a legitimate NFL QB. I was pleased with the pick up 3 or 4 years ago? The Chiefs signed him to a 3 or 5 year contract last year. But in all the time he has been here he has never even made it to 2nd string. What gives? Shouldn't he have developed by now? Last edited by Lightning Rod; 08-09-2001 at 03:43 PM..
Posts: 1,151

08-09-2001, 03:45 PM	#8
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	Who knows? Grbac was "developing" until the day he left KC.
Posts: 4,458

08-09-2001, 03:46 PM	#9
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	Yes, he SHOULD be developed by now. However, when you consider who should have been responsible for developing him, it's easy to understand how he fell through the cracks...
Posts: 100,022

08-09-2001, 07:40 PM	#10
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Name me more than 4 or 5 teams that could win with the sorry group of backups (or starters...) that they have. [b]Arizona:[/b] Jake Plummer goes down and it's Doug Brown, Chris Greisen or Sean Keenan. [b]Atlanta:[/b] Chandler goes down and maybe Mike Vick comes in (like him or not, he's not ready...), but chances are you see Eric Zeier or Doug Johnson [b]Baltimore:[/b] Elvis leaves the building, and in comes Chris Redmon (zilch experience) or B-more's poor man's Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham. [b]Buffalo:[/b] Rob Johnson is backed up by Alex Van Pelt and Pete Gonzalez. [b]Carolina:[/b] Doesn't even have a proven starter in the Jeff Lewis, Chris Weinke, Dameyune Craig rotation. [b]Chicago:[/b] A couple of average, at best, guys in Miller and Matthews, with McNown thrown in. [b]Cincinnati:[/b] Take your pick: John Kitna, Akili Smith, Scott Mitchell or Scott Covington. Ouch. [b]Cleveland:[/b] Tim Couch, Kelly Holcomb, Ty Detmer and Spurgon Wynn. Well, Couch might not suck. [b]Dallas:[/b] Tony Banks, Anthony Wright, Quincy Carter, and Clint Stoener... [b]Denver:[/b] Ahh, finally a decent group, the best IMHO with Brian Griese, Gus Frerotte and Steve Beuerlein. Too bad they're the exception and not the rule. [b]Detroit:[/b] Charlie Batch, "Captain Comeback" himself and Cory Sauter. Yawn. [b]Green Bay:[/b] Sooo, Brett Favre goes down, say hello to Doug Pederson, Billy Joe Tolliver or maybe Henry Burris. Anyone see any wins from that bunch? I sure don't... Anyway, you get my point. A dozen teams, and what, one, maybe two half-decent backups in the whole bunch? Welcome to the modern NFL ladies, where a good quarterback is a privilege, not a right. We're lucky to maybe have a decent starter, because frankly there are 8 or 10 teams out there who don't even have that. I understand wanting to have the best squad we can have, but be realistic - when there's only 15-20 really solid quarterbacks in the entire NFL, what are the odds that we're going to have 2 of them on the roster, especially when you consider the fact that we're still paying EG 3 million dollars while he's starting for the Ravens (wouldn't [i]that[/i] be nice to spend on some players - nice move Carl...) Nearly every team is 1 hit away from disaster, we're not alone in that. It's sad -- very sad -- but true. Last edited by keg in kc; 08-09-2001 at 07:52 PM..
Posts: 58,682

08-09-2001, 07:56 PM	#12
Frazod WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $2725085	We should all say a prayer for Green, his knee and all his other body parts every night as long as we've got these two reerunS backing him up. Our two worst off season moves were (a) keeping Collins and (b) signing Brister. We should have tried to get Dilfer as a back-up when he was available and them let the other two idiots fight it out for the doomsday spot. The good news - if Trent goes down, we'll be drafting really, really high in 2002. The bad news - enduring 2001.
Posts: 119,548

08-09-2001, 07:59 PM	#14
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	'zod, Dilfer ain't any better than Collins (as bad as that may be...). The guy can't hit the broad side of a barn with an M-1 tank from 6 feet away. Baltimore won despite that loser, and picking him up to run an offense where things like "accuracy" and "reading defenses" are important might have been impetus enough to get me to pack my bags and forget football for good.
Posts: 58,682