Fans (in general) vs. Refs

[Pitt Gorilla]

Previously, I had poked fun at Iowa fans for whining about officiating. After "visiting" the Mane, it seems that Donk fans are doing the same. Do all fans piss and moan about officials when they lose? I know that I usually don't, but it seems that a lot of people do. I think I complained about the playoff game where the Donx pushed Tony G out of bounds. Is it a good excuse? Do we need to blame someone, anyone, so we blame the zebras? I'm just curious.

Here's a thread from the Mane:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=32405

[Eleazar]

Yeah... there's a difference between making an observation that a call was missed and turning into a tinfoil hat type.

Sometimes a call is missed, there isn't anything inherently wrong about saying it. But, when it crosses over into making excuses for your team failing to win, blaming the officials for the loss, alleging some kind of conspiracy, that's lame. Your team still has a job to do even if calls get missed.

And it's not like the Donks had the game winning touchdown nullified right at the end or something and they had no chance to recover. According to many of them, they were getting slammed on every play by a blatant referee conspiracy.

Officials are part of the game just like weather and the field and everything else is. They might as well be crying about the other team's players being faster or stronger and thus making it unfair.

Wah.

[keg in kc]

I'm more of a "if you'd have put the game away when you had the chance, the officials wouldn't have mattered" kind of guy, whether I'm talking about them or us. Because you usually hear that kind of talk after a close game, and it overshadows all the other fuck-ups or missed opportunities your team had that could have decided it earlier. Bitching at the refs is an easy out, a lazy cop-out.

[CupidStunt]

Denver fans.

The bright-orange and blue version of the Silver and Crack.

[jspchief]

That depends. Are you talking about people that bitch about bad calls, or people that use it as an excuse for the loss.

Refs make bad calls. I don't see anything wrong with complaining about it. I'm sure as hell not going to sit back and watch those guys suck at their job.

Invariably, some troll will come along and turn that into making it an excuse for the loss. Even when that isn't what's being said.

[Lzen]

The only game in recent memory that I think really cost the Chiefs a game was the Houston game last year. There were a lot of questionable calls in that game. Of course, if Trent hadn't thrown that int that was returned for a TD and the team had played a little better, it wouldn't have mattered. And that one extra win would not have made a bit of difference in the Chiefs' season anyways.

I think refs do make some bad call but those calls usually end up evening out by the end of the game. I thought Miami got some calls in their favor in the first half on Friday but they evened out some in the second half.

As for the Donkeys, they have no right to bitch about the refs. I saw them blocking in the back several times early in the second half (when I started watching that game) and it wasn't being called. I even noticed one of their linemen diving at the legs of a Giant defender. Not a penalty according to the rules, I know. But cheap crap nonetheless. Of course, this is to be expected from the Donks.

[Saulbadguy]

It is a knee jerk reaction. After some bad calls that don't go your way, people tend to blame the refs. Usually doesn't last very long though. I know i've done it, and I wager most of the people on this board have done it.

[morphius]

It is just nice to see the donx fans finally having to bitch about the refs for a change.

[siberian khatru]

Here's a discussion starter: Should players (and I guess coaches) be held to the same standards as officials?

Because when a ref blows a call, everybody jumps on him, as if he's expected to be 100% right all the time. And some folks will go so far as to blame a bad call (or 2 or 3) as the reason why their team lost a game.

However, if you're going to scrutinize every call a ref makes, then you must also scrutinize every play from every player on your team. You undoubtedly will find far more mistakes being made there. And you could argue, at least metaphysically, that each mistake by a player cost his team a win. Because if each player were doing his job, then theoretically each play should succeed. And clearly, players make far, far more mistakes during a game than refs do.

Now, I guess you can argue it's apples and oranges, since your team's players are being opposed by the other team's, forcing them into making mistakes, when the refs don't face the same situation. Their errors are "unforced."

Still, I sometimes wonder what the acceptable error rate is for players. Did Elam and Plummer and Nalen and whatnot make their acceptable rate of mistakes, therefore the onus is on the refs? Or is it fair to say that ANY mistake made by the players contributed just as much to the loss as the refs did?

I think the vast majority of us would agree that it's always the players' fault for losing games (or to be more general, refs almost never cost you a game). I'm just curious about breaking it down for argument's sake, especially for anyone who genuinely believes the refs are responsible for a loss.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by jspchief

That depends. Are you talking about people that bitch about bad calls, or people that use it as an excuse for the loss.

Refs make bad calls. I don't see anything wrong with complaining about it. I'm sure as hell not going to sit back and watch those guys suck at their job.

Invariably, some troll will come along and turn that into making it an excuse for the loss. Even when that isn't what's being said.

Yep.

[DaFace]

This is one of the few topics that I subscribe to the DV way of thinking. Refs are just one of many uncontrollables in the game. You may lose a game partly due to a call, or you may win a game partly due to a call. In the end, it all comes out pretty close to even. The good teams play well enough that they come out on top anyway.

I, personally, don't get too upset with the refs unless it's a blatant show of ignorance, like a misinterpretation of the rules. Missed holding calls and the like are largely objective, anyway.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

Here's a discussion starter: Should players (and I guess coaches) be held to the same standards as officials?

Because when a ref blows a call, everybody jumps on him, as if he's expected to be 100% right all the time. And some folks will go so far as to blame a bad call (or 2 or 3) as the reason why their team lost a game.

However, if you're going to scrutinize every call a ref makes, then you must also scrutinize every play from every player on your team. You undoubtedly will find far more mistakes being made there. And you could argue, at least metaphysically, that each mistake by a player cost his team a win. Because if each player were doing his job, then theoretically each play should succeed. And clearly, players make far, far more mistakes during a game than refs do.

Now, I guess you can argue it's apples and oranges, since your team's players are being opposed by the other team's, forcing them into making mistakes, when the refs don't face the same situation. Their errors are "unforced."

Still, I sometimes wonder what the acceptable error rate is for players. Did Elam and Plummer and Nalen and whatnot make their acceptable rate of mistakes, therefore the onus is on the refs? Or is it fair to say that ANY mistake made by the players contributed just as much to the loss as the refs did?

I think the vast majority of us would agree that it's always the players' fault for losing games (or to be more general, refs almost never cost you a game). I'm just curious about breaking it down for argument's sake, especially for anyone who genuinely believes the refs are responsible for a loss.

That would be really hard to judge every player's plays. The reason is because we, as fans, don't always see everything that goes on downfield during a play. Or we don't always know exactly what each player's responsibilities are in their team's scheme. A lot of times we assume a certain player makes a mistake. But for all we know, he may have been doing his job as the play was designed and someone else was supposed to be there to make the play. It's really hard to judge unless we knew the playbooks and schemes. And playing Madden 2006 doesn't count.