Randy Moss now a Patriot

[Lzen]

Pats give up a 4th rounder.

[Mile High Mania]

Stallworth item:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17468254/wid/7279844/
MSNBC News Services
Updated: 12:12 p.m. CT March 5, 2007

Philadelphia Eagles free agent wide receiver Donté Stallworth is in the NFL's substance-abuse program, several league sources have told the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Stallworth, 26, caught six passes for 141 yards and two touchdowns in two playoff games and had 38 receptions for 725 yards and five touchdowns during the regular season. He missed four games with a hamstring injury. He faces a league suspension if he violates the program again, the Inquirer said.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by bill parcells

Ok,a dope..as for Meriweather..I think he's going to be good..from what I heard from a Canes fan I know he got a bad rap in that brawl,he's really not as bad a kid as everyone is saying.


He hasn't won a SB since 04,and he didn't win them with guys like Moss..Harrison played hard all the time wherever he played,he's a good player that gives full effort.

It's a right guard commercial.......

[Mile High Mania]

I tried googling for info on whether or not Kelly Washington had an infraction... but, his name and the fact that he was a Bengal brings up TOO MANY random links about violations.

[2112]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Jets had a good year last year, but I suspect they'll take a step back. Don't get me wrong, I like Mangini over the long run, BUT:

1. Pennington has to stay healthy. That's rarely done in back to back years.

2. schedule is much harder.

3. won't surprise anyone this year.

I don't see them being 10-6 again, most likely.

Very possible the Jets could be a better team with a worse record this year.

We shall see..I'll be there for the opener

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

I tried googling for info on whether or not Kelly Washington had an infraction... but, his name and the fact that he was a Bengal brings up TOO MANY random links about violations.

[2112]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Bryan Cox, Corey Dillon, and Rodney Harrison were "problem children", to an extent, and i can point to a fair number of draft picks who ended up not being the hardest workers on the field.

You take the player as he is. You can't get a superior, experienced, tall, strong, fast veteran WR with no warts unless you already have him on your team or are willing to pay $10M/year.

You take chances. EVERY new player involves taking a hcance. You weigh the probabilities, and pull the trigger. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doens't.

Those 3 players were/are all hard workers though,Moss?meh....listen,I said it was a smart move by the Pats,this move has all upside with minimal risk..

Good luck!

And Mecca is correct about his assumption.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by bill parcells

Very possible the Jets could be a better team with a worse record this year.

We shall see..I'll be there for the opener

Precisely. I'm not sure that the team, as a whole, wouldn't be better, but I'm not sure given the schedule that it will get you to the playoffs.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

I tried googling for info on whether or not Kelly Washington had an infraction... but, his name and the fact that he was a Bengal brings up TOO MANY random links about violations.

He got shot before the draft, otherwise he was considered a 1st or 2nd round talent...obviously he hasn't produced up to that level yet.

[Rausch]

Considering Brady's options and the low round pick this is a no-brainer.

It's not like the Pats will take a 3 year decline after losing a 4th round pick.

Either way the Pats win on this deal...

[Amnorix]

Interesting press conference with BB before the Pats-Raiders game to start the 2005 season.

http://www.patriots.com/mediacenter/...=12718&pcid=85

Q: From a talent standpoint, how difficult is it to prepare for a guy like Moss?

BB: He's one of the best receivers in the league. There is no question about that. He has all the skills. He is a tall guy. For a tall receiver, he's got exceptional quickness, and lateral quickness. He changes direction very well. He can explode out of his cuts, which you usually see more of that from shorter receivers, guys that have a lower center of gravity, that are closer to the ground. But he can really bend his knees, bend his ankles, keep his weight low, and then explode out of those cuts on slant routes, in-cuts, comebacks. He's very good at stop-and-go routes, which again is unusual for player of his size, where he can go, stop and then go again and then accelerate and beat the defender on the second part of the route. [He has] excellent hands. [He] can catch the ball away from his body and extend. He is not a body catcher at all. He has great timing on the deep balls, so he can jump high and go up and take the ball at the high point. A lot of receivers that are shorter sometimes can out-jump or just out-time the jump with the defender and get the ball. Moss has a combination of height, long arms, and good timing and jumping ability and excellent hands to go up and get the ball. He's good after the catch. He's very fast. He can get the ball on a lot of under routes and crossing patterns and things like that and outrun linebackers and safeties and pick up extra yards down the sideline. This is a very talented player. He doesn't really have any real weakness and his game, man, zone, deep routes, short routes, catching the ball, run after the catch. [He is] a smart guy. [He] can get off the jam. He's very quick on the line of scrimmage. He is a hard guy to jam and hold up. He's pretty good.

Q: Is he different from Terrell Owens?

BB: I would say yes. Owens is a bigger, more physical, probably a little stronger after the catch. He doesn't have Moss' vertical speed. I don't know does. There's not many players in the league to have Moss' vertical speed. A little different skill set, but in their own way, both are certainly in the top four or five receivers in the league.

Q: Before he came in the league was there any player who would replicate all those skills you named?

BB: I don't think I could think of a guy right off the top of my head. [Lynn] Swann had those kind of ball skills and that kind of jumping ability. But, he didn't have anywhere close to Moss' speed.

Q: Roger Carr.

BB: You're talking about a Rolls Royce and a Chevy. Carr was a good receiver, but he's no Randy Moss. I'd have to think of somebody comparable, but there wouldn't be too many. He's pretty unique. What's really unique is his height and then the quickness that he has, with as tall and angular as he is, the quickness and explosion that he has on his cuts and then the ball skills would go with it. If you can win with speed, and you can win with quickness and you can win with hands, even though the guy is on him, he can still stretch, reach out and catch the ball even though the defender is draped all over him. That's a pretty good combination of skills.

Q: Could Moss play for you?

BB: Why not?

Q: People perceive him as not being a good teammate.

BB: Well, I don't know anything about that. I really don't know anything about that. We hear that stuff about a lot of people.

Q: How about him not competing?

BB: I think Randy Moss is a good competitor. I think he's really good. There are times when he isn't going full speed. He probably knows that there's no chance that he would get the ball on that play, not based on the route or the play, based on the way that the coverage has deployed itself and therefore where the quarterback is going to be going with the ball.

Q: Do your receivers ever do things like that?

BB: I think there are a lot of players who do that. Lawrence Taylor. Lawrence Taylor was a great player. Every play wasn't his top effort and he was a high-effort player. I'm not saying that. But, Lawrence Taylor knew what the plays were in the game. He knew on third-and-eight in the fourth quarter was a lot different than first-and-10 in the second quarter. And it was. One of Lawrence's greatest strengths was his biggest plays came in the most critical times in the game. Those were the plays that if you were playing against him, you better be ready for him because of that's...short yardage, goal line, third down, key plays in the game. Were all sitting in there watching the game and you just kind of know, 'Okay, this is a big play in the game coming up. This situation.' That's where Taylor would be at his best. You could find plenty of plays on second-and-three in the second quarter that didn't look like that. You could find that with probably a lot of other players too.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I think the Pats have had a pretty shitty offseason so far.

Adalius Thomas was surrounded by all-world talent in Baltimore. Anyone remember Edge Hartwell? How'd he do?

They vastly overpaid for Wes Welker, and now they keep drafting character problems like Meriweather and picking up guys like Moss.

No matter how strong the dictator is, there comes a point when even his iron-fisted measures can't contain all the malcontents.

These moves stink of desperation to me. They see the Colts as clearly better, and they are trying to cut corners to get back to the top.

Bringing this thread up from the depths in order to give Hamas a chance to revisit his prior position...

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It wasn't disagreeing with me, it was the way that you started to blow your stack. I wasn' the one who got bent out of shape over any of this. When I say Wes fucking Welker you automatically think I'm pounding the podium, a la Hitler, when in reality I'm laughing at the stupidity of the move.

Paying a premium for trading within your division or not, it was still an asinine move incommensurate with the value of the player.

[snip]

And P.S. you should be wise enough not to confuse erudition with exasperation/anger.

I've ignored several other posts you had insulting Welker, but I admit that your "erudition" is lost on me.

For teh record, Wes Welker is currently tied (with TG) for 6th in the NFL with 38 catches. He has 3 TDs, 4 catches for 20+ yards, averages 64 yards a game and 52% of his catches have been for first downs.

And, oh yes, he's also returned 4 kickoffs with a solid 26 yard average, and 14 punts for an NFL 9th best 11.6 yards per catch.

Patriots Nation is in love with him. He's a gutty performer who always give 110% percent and has terrific hands. With the attention Moss (especially) and Stallworth are getting, he's a perfect complement.

2nd and 7th. It's a no-brainer. He's worth every bit of it.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by GOATSE

Brady and Welker will be money on third downs. Especially with Moss and Stallworth drawing coverage. AND Ben Watson. Jesus.

Quoted for truth. Well done.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Bringing this thread up from the depths in order to give Hamas a chance to revisit his prior position...

Sure.

Obviously, Moss has done better than anyone could have expected, but even you trashed him before he became a Patriot, so isn't that the pot calling the kettle black??


Adalius Thomas really hasn't done much for you. He has 18 solo tackles, and a half sack. On the positive side, he has a pick 6, but other than that he has no other interceptions, forced fumbles, or fumble recoveries. Given the size of the contract you dished out for him, that's pretty piss poor production.

Wes Welker has worked out really well, but look at it from the outside. You gave up a 2nd and a 7th round pick (albeit late) for the guy, and gave him $9 million in guaranteed money.

Brandon Meriweather, your first round safety, has 5 solo tackles and 8 assists, no picks, no FF, no sacks, despite the fact that Harrison missed the first four games due to a suspension and your secondary depth is really thin. At least he had 0 stomps


Hey man, obviously your transactions have worked out better than I expected so far, but you seem to be confusing this year, for the entirety of these contracts and the future. Adalius Thomas is looking like a product of the Baltimore system, Meriweather has shown little, and you paid a pretty high price for Wes Welker. Trading draft picks and overpaying for FA's never hurts you the year that you do it, it impacts the future of your franchise. But hey, you're going to win the Super Bowl this year, but you seem to be confusing 1 great, buy low addition, Moss, and one really good pick up, Welker, for a perfect offseason.

Kelley Washington has done nothing, nor has Meriweather, and Thomas has been a huge money pit.

[Amnorix]

Oh how wrong you are...

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Sure.

Obviously, Moss has done better than anyone could have expected, but even you trashed him before he became a Patriot, so isn't that the pot calling the kettle black??

I wasn't certain he'd be the super-stud he had been, but I was MORE than willing to give BB/SP the benefit of the doubt, because, as my avatar says, in BB I trust. That makes me 180 degrees off from you, who did nothing but trash every move as "an act of desperation".

More like an act (multiple acts, actually) of genius...

Adalius Thomas really hasn't done much for you. He has 18 solo tackles, and a half sack. On the positive side, he has a pick 6, but other than that he has no other interceptions, forced fumbles, or fumble recoveries. Given the size of the contract you dished out for him, that's pretty piss poor production.

You are totally and completely wrong, and stats don't begin to tell the tale.

1. Without AT (i.e. LAST year), we had Vrabel playing out of position at inside linebacker. While he's good there, he isn't able to wreak the havoc that he is this year, and set the edge as well as he does.

2. Without AT (i.e. LAST year), Bruschi was playing out of position at strong side 'backer. Now, with AT, he's playing weak side, where he's much better.

3. With AT, Bruschi and Seau are splitting time, which is much better for both of them at this point in their careers.

4. You didn't note the 5 or 6 passes defensed that AT has, or the pass that he intercepted and returned 65 yards for a TD. He also tipped a ball that turned into a pick. His presence as a 6'2" 270 pound middle backer WITH speed is not to be questioned.

5. You ignroe that his 18 solo tackles are SECOND on teh team. That his 29 (not solo) is FIRST. In a 2 gap, BB defense that's exactly where the strong side backer should be of course, but still, eh is doing his job very well.

6. Inside backers rarely get sacks in BB's defense. Bruschi's best year was 4.5 sacks.

Wes Welker has worked out really well, but look at it from the outside. You gave up a 2nd and a 7th round pick (albeit late) for the guy, and gave him $9 million in guaranteed money.

The 2nd is also late in the round, and it's a 5 year deal. And the guy is only 26 years old!!

Brandon Meriweather, your first round safety, has 5 solo tackles and 8 assists, no picks, no FF, no sacks, despite the fact that Harrison missed the first four games due to a suspension and your secondary depth is really thin. At least he had 0 stomps

errr...I wasn't discussing Meriweather, but that's fine. He's being brought along slowly, behind some very decent safeties. Even Seymour, Warren and Wilfork didn't start right away. BB tends to bring rookies along slowly so they aren't overwhelmed. Only Logan Mankins (OLinemaen) started as rookies as a 1st round pick that I can remember, of BB's draft picks.

Hey man, obviously your transactions have worked out better than I expected so far, but you seem to be confusing this year, for the entirety of these contracts and the future. Adalius Thomas is looking like a product of the Baltimore system, Meriweather has shown little, and you paid a pretty high price for Wes Welker. Trading draft picks and overpaying for FA's never hurts you the year that you do it, it impacts the future of your franchise. But hey, you're going to win the Super Bowl this year, but you seem to be confusing 1 great, buy low addition, Moss, and one really good pick up, Welker, for a perfect offseason.

Kelley Washington has done nothing, nor has Meriweather, and Thomas has been a huge money pit.

Washington has been a bust so far. We'll agree on that.

As to the rest, you are so very, very wrong. I can link you to many posts in Pats fan boards praising AT to the skies, but I'm sure you don't care.