"Even with Jared Allen, the Chiefs only won four games..."

[Mama Hip Rockets]

I don't understand why people keep saying that, like it's Jared Allen's fault that the Chiefs sucked. They won four games because their offensive line sucked and their QBs sucked and their wide receivers sucked and their cornerbacks sucked and their defensive tackles sucked, etc. etc.

It's not like because they sucked one year, Jared Allen will never be a difference-maker. If they keep Allen, and build a defense around him, and actually used some of their ridiculously unused cap money on some offense, the Chiefs could be a contending team within a couple of years.

I just don't understand this widespread logic of "Oh, since the Chiefs only won four games last year, Jared Allen is completely useless to this team."

[Hammock Parties]

Since so many people are trashing Allen, I wonder what you all think of the column I wrote a few months ago:

http://kan.scout.com/2/713626.html

Jared Allen was understandably excited this week, making his first Pro Bowl. It’s been a long haul for the fourth-year defensive end, from the 126th pick in the NFL draft to a DUI suspension and finally, to Hawaii, the first Kansas City defender to make the trip since 2003.
Fans will be clamoring for general manager Carl Peterson to throw the bank at Allen this offseason, and with good reason – the Chiefs have a player who has exceeded his draft status, made an impact on games and doesn’t appear to be slowing down. To let Allen get away now would be a tragedy.

I’m in agreement with all of the above. What I’m not in agreement with is giving Allen a long-term contract, not just yet.

Allen has proved quite a bit this year, but he still has more to prove. Staying clean and sober for a year was a step in the right direction – how about two? Allen’s real burden of proof lies within the gridiron, however.

For all his gaudy statistics – 11.5 sacks, eight tackles for loss, two forced fumbles, a whopping 10 passes defensed and a touchdown reception to boot – Allen is still not an elite player, Pro Bowl berth or not. Perhaps it sounds silly given the season he’s had, but over the last month it’s become more and more apparent that Allen is not deserving of the riches he probably desires.

After dominating the Oakland Raiders in a Week 7 win, Allen disappeared against that same team at Arrowhead Stadium in Week 12. Kansas City’s pass rush was noticeably absent this day, as Daunte Culpepper frequently had all kinds of time to stand in the pocket.

Allen rebounded with a good game against the San Diego Chargers a week later, but the last two weeks might be his worst as a pro.

The Broncos opened their December 9 contest with the Chiefs by running right at Allen, who was easily pinned to the inside on Denver’s first two offensive plays, resulting in gains of six and 50 yards. Later, Allen blew an opportunity to dump running back Selvin Young for a loss – the undrafted rookie cut the play back for 30 yards, leading to a field goal just before halftime.

The Broncos double-teamed Allen much of the day, yes, but not on every play. Frequently, he was handled by tight end Daniel Graham in single blocking. Allen’s day was so bad the only play he made all game came after the officials appeared to incite his anger by flagging him for a hands-to-the-face penalty.

Of course, Allen struggling against Denver is nothing new. In eight career games against the Broncos, he has just 1.5 sacks. The reason is Denver’s left tackle Matt Lepsis, a veteran player who, for all his lack of press clippings, has always seemed to handle KC’s defensive end with ease.

Allen’s struggles continued against another relatively unknown player last week against the Titans – Michael Roos. Tennessee’s third-year left tackle didn’t let Allen sniff Vince Young all day, and the Titans ran LenDale White right at him for 60 minutes.

Lepsis and Roos are good players, but the former is a descending lineman coming off micro fracture knee surgery. The latter is an ascending player who will one day make the Pro Bowl, but isn’t there just yet. Neither tackle can be compared to Orlando Pace or Willie Roaf in their primes.

So the question begs – if Allen’s play has fallen off against players like Lepsis and Roos, just how much is he worth? When the Chiefs (hopefully) someday reach the playoffs, and Allen squares off against New England's Matt Light or Cleveland's Joe Thomas, how effective will he be? And even then, there’s the question of Allen’s abilities as a clutch player.

When was the last time you remember Jared Allen coming up with a huge sack or strip late in a game? As good as Allen has been this year, he just has one sack after halftime and none in the fourth quarter. It’s not as if the Chiefs have always been playing from behind – they had leads against Green Bay, Oakland and Tennessee, and were tied with Indianapolis and San Diego. Where was Allen, instead of doing what elite defensive ends do?

Allen’s numbers look good right now, but how much of his performance this year is due to the limbo of his contract status? Can he put together three or four consecutive 14-16 sack seasons, as Reggie White and Bruce Smith used to do back in the day?

We’re not questioning Allen’s heart or desire to play the game. Perhaps he’s simply not that good – he was never the most talented player to begin with. And in that light, one knee injury might drastically reduce Allen’s effectiveness, as it did with Eric Hicks after his 14-sack season.

Just how much is Allen worth? Is it really smart to award him with a long-term deal similar to the one Dwight Freeney ($72 million) signed last offseason?

Perhaps it’s in the best interests of the Chiefs if Peterson slaps the franchise tag on Allen for next season, and perhaps beyond. Reward Allen now with what will surely be a lucrative one-year deal (approximately $10 million), and in the meantime, continue to evaluate him. It would be a shame if the Chiefs repeated the same mistake they made with Larry Johnson a few months ago.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

JA is a more COMPLETE player than Freeney and besides that, the money being talked about is LESS than Freeney's contract. So you can throw that argument out the window.


I also understand the DUI thing, I really do, but I'm also smart enough to know you can put stipulations in contracts-it happens all the time-so whose the one being naive?l

For the eleventy-billionth time.

The players union will not allow a player to put a clause like that in a contract.

If they would it already would have happened, many times over.

Putting a stipulation that a player not ride motorcycles is considerably different than a stipulation that he pay back a $35M signing bonus if he's busted/suspended again.

Christ, Michael Vick is in ****ing PRISON.

He got to keep his bonus.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by GOATSE

Since so many people are trashing Allen, I wonder what you all think of the column I wrote a few months ago:

http://kan.scout.com/2/713626.html

I think it's dead-on, and I've echoed those sentiments over the past three days.

He's had one phenomenal season, one pretty good season, and two average/below average seasons. Yet he wants the biggest contract for a defensive player in the history of the league?

No thanks.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

First, I'd love to see which games you are considering that Allen won all by himself.

Second, I'm talking about 2007, because YOU'RE talking about 2007. 4 wins.

9/23/07 chiefs 13, vikings 10. allen records 8 tackles, 2 sacks, and a forced fumble. forced fumble occurs at the minnesota 29-yard-line, leading to a chiefs field goal which ended up making the difference in the game.

10/14/07 chiefs 27, bengals 20. allen does not single-handedly win the game as the chiefs offense actually shows up for a moment, but allen does have a monster game with 2.5 sacks and a forced fumble, which would have led to a chiefs touchdown had larry johnson not fumbled at the one-yard-line.

10/21/07 chiefs 12, raiders 10. allen records as many sacks and tackles combined (12) as the chiefs record points.

so, allen played a huge role in three out of their four wins last year alone.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I think it's dead-on, and I've echoed those sentiments over the past three days.

He's had one phenomenal season, one pretty good season, and two average/below average seasons. Yet he wants the biggest contract for a defensive player in the history of the league?

No thanks.

he is 26. how many phenomenal seasons have most great players had by the age of 26?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by thurman merman

9/23/07 chiefs 13, vikings 10. allen records 8 tackles, 2 sacks, and a forced fumble. forced fumble occurs at the minnesota 29-yard-line, leading to a chiefs field goal which ended up making the difference in the game.

10/14/07 chiefs 27, bengals 20. allen does not single-handedly win the game as the chiefs offense actually shows up for a moment, but allen does have a monster game with 2.5 sacks and a forced fumble, which would have led to a chiefs touchdown had larry johnson not fumbled at the one-yard-line.

10/21/07 chiefs 12, raiders 10. allen records as many sacks and tackles combined (12) as the chiefs record points.

so, allen played a huge role in three out of their four wins last year alone.

So, he played a huge role, or he single handedly won those games?

Which is it?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by thurman merman

he is 26. how many phenomenal seasons have most great players had by the age of 26?

Dwight Freeney had 4/4.

Yet Allen wants as much or more money than Freeney.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

So, he played a huge role, or he single handedly won those games?

Which is it?

i really think they could have lost any of those games had allen not been playing. the chiefs could have been 1-15 without him last year.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by thurman merman

i really think they could have lost any of those games had allen not been playing. the chiefs could have been 1-15 without him last year.

And they could have been 8-8 had he bothered to show up for the Green Bay, Oakland, (Home) Indianapolis and Tennessee games.

What's your point?

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

And they could have been 8-8 had he bothered to show up for the Green Bay, Oakland, (Home) Indianapolis and Tennessee games.

What's your point?

ok, you're right, he sucks.

let's just bring back vonnie holiday or something.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That was a very well written piece, GC.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by thurman merman

ok, you're right, he sucks.

let's just bring back vonnie holiday or something.

That's it. Give up.

I never said he sucks.

What I did say, and what I've said for the last year or so is that he's not worth Dwight Freeney money, with or without a history of DWI's.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by thurman merman

I don't understand why people keep saying that, like it's Jared Allen's fault that the Chiefs sucked. They won four games because their offensive line sucked and their QBs sucked and their wide receivers sucked and their cornerbacks sucked and their defensive tackles sucked, etc. etc.

It's not like because they sucked one year, Jared Allen will never be a difference-maker. If they keep Allen, and build a defense around him, and actually used some of their ridiculously unused cap money on some offense, the Chiefs could be a contending team within a couple of years.

I just don't understand this widespread logic of "Oh, since the Chiefs only won four games last year, Jared Allen is completely useless to this team."

Bolded is the crux, those who say "even with him we were 4-12" mean, 'we are a LONG way from winning again anyway, who knows how worn out and world weary he'd by the time we're ready to compete again?'

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Who is the Colts 3rd DE again?

What were freeney's #s the last two seasons again?

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

And they could have been 8-8 had he bothered to show up for the Green Bay, Oakland, (Home) Indianapolis and Tennessee games.

What's your point?

Sounds like the Chiefs need a whole lot more peices of puzzle than JA. Obviously...