Chiefs Carl Peterson is Still a Liability Until Proven Otherwise

Otter · 06-15-2008, 11:36 AM

Just found this while surfing and didn't see it posted before. If it's a re-post then go grab yourself a tissue, tampon and a midol put on some Bet Midler songs and go have yourself a good cry.

http://mvn.com/nfl-chiefs/2008/06/05...ven-otherwise/

There's a bunch of comments under the article on the originating web page I haven't read yet, but we've probably heard them before.

Carl Peterson is Still a Liability Until Proven Otherwise

So much for positivity. I’ve made it very clear that I loved the way the Chiefs drafted in 2008. I am a huge supporter of the direction that Herm Edwards and Bill Kuharich are taking the Chiefs in. Whereas many teams like the Jets and the Raiders are splurging on marginal veterans to band-aid leaky holes, the Chiefs are promoting open competition. Love the strategy.

That being said, I still do not trust Carl Peterson one bit to put this franchise over the top. While many see the shift to the youth movement as a testament to the fact that Carl Peterson is changing his ways, I couldn’t disagree more. Peterson is still the same arrogant S.O.B.; he has just been lucky that his mistakes have not come to bite him… yet.

Problem #1: Signing First Round Picks
Ryan Sims’ Dad made a pretty glaring accusation a few months ago that Carl Peterson has a history of low-balling first round picks. He claims that at the NFL Draft, many NFL teams warned him about Peterson’s ways. While so many were quick to brush this off and claim that because Sims was fat and lousy as a player, he has no credibility. I, on the other hand, became concerned as to whether there is any truth to his comment. Quietly, Peterson has racked up a very lousy recent track record of bringing first round picks to camp on time. Dwayne Bowe was a holdout. Tamba Hali made it to camp literally hours before camp started. Derrick Johnson was a holdout (albeit, a short one). Ryan Sims was a holdout. John Tait was a holdout. Sylvester Morris was a holdout. The only recent player to make it to camp in plenty of time was Larry Johnson.
The accusation would be a lot easier to deny if there wasn’t such a track record behind it. Glenn Dorsey needs to be in camp so he can stay healthy (holdouts become greater injury risks). Albert absolutely must make camp in time because he has a lot to learn if he plans to be a starting tackle this season. It is absolutely, positively imperative that the Chiefs bring their draft picks to camp on time. If Peterson can get not one, but two first rounders to camp on time, then perhaps we can claim that Peterson has started to change.

Problem #2: Landing Marquee Free Agents
Carl Peterson will have you believe that he’s a terrific negotiator. I have yet to see much proof that he is. His negotiating tactic works when you have a lot of time to negotiate. He’s been able to lock down some of his own players like LJ because they were already under contract and they were negotiating an extension. The word from both the LJ and Allen camp is that Peterson submitted a lowball offer and then refused to talk to the other side until the agent lowered their offer.

Peterson has never been successful negotiating contracts with the “first wave.” For a long time, I believed this was intentional. The more I evaluate his tactics, the more I begin to wonder if he’s just incapable of negotiating a contract with an agent that has more leverage than he has. Isn’t it interesting that most free agents who come to Kansas City weren’t courted by anybody else? Isn’t it interesting that the Chiefs have lost so many battles with free agents who are courted by other teams (i.e. Jeremiah Trotter, Troy Vincent, Samari Rolle). And I can’t help but wonder if there’s a compelling reason for why Jeff Faine and Josh Brown didn’t even bother to fly into Kansas City.
While I haven’t been in the negotiation room, the overwhelming feeling is that Peterson likes to lowball. That sometimes works when you negotiate with your own players and you have lots of time to lock down a deal; it does not work when it comes to landing free agents. This hardline tactic also drove both John Tait and Jared Allen out of Kansas City.

The Chiefs, at some point, are going to have to bring in top-flight free agents to put them over the top. I have seen very little from Peterson to suggest that he’s capable of doing such. The problem is when you disguise shortcomings as strategy. Is Peterson purposely targeting second-wave free agents only, hoping to find value players at an affordable price? Or is Peterson only targeting players that won’t be put off by his hardball tactics? I’m beginning to think it’s the former.

Problem #3: Keeping the players happy
This is new to Carl Peterson and I’m not sure what the cause is. For some reason, Peterson has lost complete respect from his players. There seems to be a huge divide between the players and the front office. Kyle Turley ranted on Sirius NFL Radio shortly after his retirement about the front office’s tactics. Greg Wesley accused the Chiefs of lying to him about their intention to release him. Trent Green was clearly not happy about the way he was let loose (and long-revered Chief Will Shields chimed in on Sirius NFL Radio that he concurred). The Chiefs are having a hard enough time attracting marquee talent in Kansas City; they can’t afford to lose players because they can’t put up with the management.

The Chiefs came out okay on the Jared Allen deal. But don’t give Carl Peterson a free pass. The truth is, his notoriously hardline negotiation style obviously set something off in Allen to the point that Allen flat-out refused to negotiate with Peterson. The Chiefs were lucky that Minnesota was willing to give up premium draft picks for Allen and for that, the Chiefs were considered geniuses. I would claim that the Chiefs were merely lucky to cover up their mistake. If no team offered decent trade compensation and Allen never agreed to a long-term contract to the Chiefs, I wonder how much Kansas City fans would appreciate Peterson’s tactics.

Closing Thoughts
It’s interesting how defensive fans have become in Carl Peterson. While I don’t subscribe to the Jason Whitlock argument that Peterson can do no right, I also find it hard to believe that there is so much support for a General Manager who has notoriously built underachieving teams. Fool me once, shame on Carl Peterson. Fool me twenty times, shame on me.

Brock · 06-15-2008, 11:45 AM

Welcome to a long time ago.

milkman · 06-15-2008, 11:47 AM

Who the hell is defending Carl Peterson?

**Bowser** · 06-15-2008, 11:49 AM

Good read, and pretty much sums up my feelings on Carl. Carl is the very definition of "a guy in the right place at the right time". He should have left with Marty, if not Gunther.

**Bowser** · 06-15-2008, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Who the hell is defending Carl Peterson?

That was my next question.

kcxiv · 06-15-2008, 11:59 AM

Someone post a Captain Obvious picture. lol About 10 years late to the party.

**J Diddy** · 06-15-2008, 12:29 PM

car-l is teh genie-us
u all is just haterz

StcChief · 06-15-2008, 12:32 PM

I think he's gone with Stadium renovations.... more of the player stuff is handled by Bill K/Denny Thum/ Coaches and I believe Clark.

Good luck Carl, you should have more than enough to retire.

kcfanXIII · 06-15-2008, 12:43 PM

carl is terrible. i won't even say the allen trade was worth it until i see albert starting at tackle at a high level consistantly, and dorsey lives up to the hype. hit the nail on the head that he was more lucky than good with the allen trade.

"carl peterson's extermination service. we'll blow your house up, but we'll kill the bugs."

Otter · 06-15-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Who the hell is defending Carl Peterson?

First thing that popped in my head as well. Except for a couple rogue [insert adjective] everyone is breathing down his neck. Quiet late and very deservingly so I might add.

KCTitus · 06-15-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

That being said, I still do not trust Carl Peterson one bit to put this franchise over the top...

What tipped you off? The last couple of years, last 5, last 10, last 19 or was it because he drafted Blackledge?

blueballs · 06-15-2008, 01:19 PM

Why waste time crying about spilt milk
that's all but evaporated

BigRock · 06-15-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

While many see the shift to the youth movement as a testament to the fact that Carl Peterson is changing his ways, I couldn’t disagree more.

This is actually fairly stupid. It has nothing to do with Carl "changing his ways". It has everything to do with Carl no longer making that call.

KCrockaholic · 06-15-2008, 03:40 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0icSh...eature=related

albert looks more like a freshman in this game against maryland. its kinda scary....

(for some reason the administrator has "banned" my address from creating new threads, or else i would have created a new thread for this post, sorry guys)

**The Bad Guy** · 06-15-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcrockaholic4life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0icSh...eature=related

albert looks more like a freshman in this game against maryland. its kinda scary....

(for some reason the administrator has "banned" my address from creating new threads, or else i would have created a new thread for this post, sorry guys)

A few bad plays doesn't equal scary.

06-15-2008, 11:36 AM
Otter Live free or die hard Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Durango, CO Casino cash: $2508382	Carl Peterson is Still a Liability Until Proven Otherwise Just found this while surfing and didn't see it posted before. If it's a re-post then go grab yourself a tissue, tampon and a midol put on some Bet Midler songs and go have yourself a good cry. http://mvn.com/nfl-chiefs/2008/06/05...ven-otherwise/ There's a bunch of comments under the article on the originating web page I haven't read yet, but we've probably heard them before. Carl Peterson is Still a Liability Until Proven Otherwise So much for positivity. I’ve made it very clear that I loved the way the Chiefs drafted in 2008. I am a huge supporter of the direction that Herm Edwards and Bill Kuharich are taking the Chiefs in. Whereas many teams like the Jets and the Raiders are splurging on marginal veterans to band-aid leaky holes, the Chiefs are promoting open competition. Love the strategy. That being said, I still do not trust Carl Peterson one bit to put this franchise over the top. While many see the shift to the youth movement as a testament to the fact that Carl Peterson is changing his ways, I couldn’t disagree more. Peterson is still the same arrogant S.O.B.; he has just been lucky that his mistakes have not come to bite him… yet. Problem #1: Signing First Round Picks Ryan Sims’ Dad made a pretty glaring accusation a few months ago that Carl Peterson has a history of low-balling first round picks. He claims that at the NFL Draft, many NFL teams warned him about Peterson’s ways. While so many were quick to brush this off and claim that because Sims was fat and lousy as a player, he has no credibility. I, on the other hand, became concerned as to whether there is any truth to his comment. Quietly, Peterson has racked up a very lousy recent track record of bringing first round picks to camp on time. Dwayne Bowe was a holdout. Tamba Hali made it to camp literally hours before camp started. Derrick Johnson was a holdout (albeit, a short one). Ryan Sims was a holdout. John Tait was a holdout. Sylvester Morris was a holdout. The only recent player to make it to camp in plenty of time was Larry Johnson. The accusation would be a lot easier to deny if there wasn’t such a track record behind it. Glenn Dorsey needs to be in camp so he can stay healthy (holdouts become greater injury risks). Albert absolutely must make camp in time because he has a lot to learn if he plans to be a starting tackle this season. It is absolutely, positively imperative that the Chiefs bring their draft picks to camp on time. If Peterson can get not one, but two first rounders to camp on time, then perhaps we can claim that Peterson has started to change. Problem #2: Landing Marquee Free Agents Carl Peterson will have you believe that he’s a terrific negotiator. I have yet to see much proof that he is. His negotiating tactic works when you have a lot of time to negotiate. He’s been able to lock down some of his own players like LJ because they were already under contract and they were negotiating an extension. The word from both the LJ and Allen camp is that Peterson submitted a lowball offer and then refused to talk to the other side until the agent lowered their offer. Peterson has never been successful negotiating contracts with the “first wave.” For a long time, I believed this was intentional. The more I evaluate his tactics, the more I begin to wonder if he’s just incapable of negotiating a contract with an agent that has more leverage than he has. Isn’t it interesting that most free agents who come to Kansas City weren’t courted by anybody else? Isn’t it interesting that the Chiefs have lost so many battles with free agents who are courted by other teams (i.e. Jeremiah Trotter, Troy Vincent, Samari Rolle). And I can’t help but wonder if there’s a compelling reason for why Jeff Faine and Josh Brown didn’t even bother to fly into Kansas City. While I haven’t been in the negotiation room, the overwhelming feeling is that Peterson likes to lowball. That sometimes works when you negotiate with your own players and you have lots of time to lock down a deal; it does not work when it comes to landing free agents. This hardline tactic also drove both John Tait and Jared Allen out of Kansas City. The Chiefs, at some point, are going to have to bring in top-flight free agents to put them over the top. I have seen very little from Peterson to suggest that he’s capable of doing such. The problem is when you disguise shortcomings as strategy. Is Peterson purposely targeting second-wave free agents only, hoping to find value players at an affordable price? Or is Peterson only targeting players that won’t be put off by his hardball tactics? I’m beginning to think it’s the former. Problem #3: Keeping the players happy This is new to Carl Peterson and I’m not sure what the cause is. For some reason, Peterson has lost complete respect from his players. There seems to be a huge divide between the players and the front office. Kyle Turley ranted on Sirius NFL Radio shortly after his retirement about the front office’s tactics. Greg Wesley accused the Chiefs of lying to him about their intention to release him. Trent Green was clearly not happy about the way he was let loose (and long-revered Chief Will Shields chimed in on Sirius NFL Radio that he concurred). The Chiefs are having a hard enough time attracting marquee talent in Kansas City; they can’t afford to lose players because they can’t put up with the management. The Chiefs came out okay on the Jared Allen deal. But don’t give Carl Peterson a free pass. The truth is, his notoriously hardline negotiation style obviously set something off in Allen to the point that Allen flat-out refused to negotiate with Peterson. The Chiefs were lucky that Minnesota was willing to give up premium draft picks for Allen and for that, the Chiefs were considered geniuses. I would claim that the Chiefs were merely lucky to cover up their mistake. If no team offered decent trade compensation and Allen never agreed to a long-term contract to the Chiefs, I wonder how much Kansas City fans would appreciate Peterson’s tactics. Closing Thoughts It’s interesting how defensive fans have become in Carl Peterson. While I don’t subscribe to the Jason Whitlock argument that Peterson can do no right, I also find it hard to believe that there is so much support for a General Manager who has notoriously built underachieving teams. Fool me once, shame on Carl Peterson. Fool me twenty times, shame on me.
Posts: 26,217

06-15-2008, 11:47 AM	#3
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	Who the hell is defending Carl Peterson? __________________
Posts: 70,769

06-15-2008, 11:49 AM	#4
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $3201616	Good read, and pretty much sums up my feelings on Carl. Carl is the very definition of "a guy in the right place at the right time". He should have left with Marty, if not Gunther.
Posts: 101,044

06-15-2008, 11:59 AM	#6
kcxiv In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Valley, Cali Casino cash: $8807996	Someone post a Captain Obvious picture. lol About 10 years late to the party.
Posts: 29,110

06-15-2008, 12:29 PM	#7
J Diddy Don't Be A Dick Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Joplin Casino cash: $6757192	car-l is teh genie-us u all is just haterz
Posts: 33,653

06-15-2008, 11:45 AM	#2
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	Welcome to a long time ago.
Posts: 47,314

06-15-2008, 12:32 PM	#8
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	I think he's gone with Stadium renovations.... more of the player stuff is handled by Bill K/Denny Thum/ Coaches and I believe Clark. Good luck Carl, you should have more than enough to retire. __________________ sig test for this screwy schema
Posts: 25,901

06-15-2008, 12:43 PM	#9
kcfanXIII Ride on! Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Galaxy far far away Casino cash: $10013172	carl is terrible. i won't even say the allen trade was worth it until i see albert starting at tackle at a high level consistantly, and dorsey lives up to the hype. hit the nail on the head that he was more lucky than good with the allen trade. "carl peterson's extermination service. we'll blow your house up, but we'll kill the bugs." __________________ Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed, overcomes the fear of death.
Posts: 5,470

06-15-2008, 01:19 PM	#12
blueballs Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Casino cash: $10004900	Why waste time crying about spilt milk that's all but evaporated
Posts: 14,233

06-15-2008, 03:40 PM	#14
KCrockaholic Sarcasm Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Olathe Casino cash: $4612900	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0icSh...eature=related albert looks more like a freshman in this game against maryland. its kinda scary.... (for some reason the administrator has "banned" my address from creating new threads, or else i would have created a new thread for this post, sorry guys)
Posts: 21,140