Pioli's Draft Record (Good read.)

[T-post Tom]

A Look At Pioli’s Record/Part 1
January 13, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

There are four different avenues that produce players for NFL teams.

There is unrestricted free agency, street free agents or players that have failed with another team and college free agents.

But the biggest pipeline is the NFL Draft.

There is no question that the Super Bowl success of the New England Patriots was built on draft picks. Just about all their key performers came through selections made by Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli (left).

Not a lot is known about just how the Patriots operated in the draft room, but we know Belichick had the final say so. We also know he had a great deal of faith in Pioli and his scouts’ ability to match college players with what Belichick was looking for on his roster. There was most definitely a plan, and most definitely a template for physical characteristics and skills at certain positions.

A team that takes advantage of the draft does two things: it does not make mistakes at the top of the draft and it finds gems in the later rounds, players who make contributions despite being selected late in the process. For the most part, the Patriots did both and that allowed them to win three Super Bowls.

Here’s the list of players the Patriots drafted from 2000-2004.
http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-footb...2000-2004.html

Here’s the list of players the Patriots drafted from 2005-2008.
http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-footb...2005-2008.html

And here are some items of interest that come out of analyzing the 77 players the Patriots have selected in the 2000 through 2008 NFL Drafts:

– New England’s average pick in the first round over the last nine years was No. 20. There were no picks in the top five and only two in the top 10 and three in the top half of the draft. Because of their success, they normally held draft positions late in rounds. They had just 14 picks in the top 50 and 26 in the top 100.

– The Patriots did not use picks on small college players. Of those 77 selected, 74 were from major college teams/Division 1. Two were from what used to be called Division 1-AA and they drafted just one small college player: TE Andy Stokes, who was the final player taken in the 2005 Draft out of William Penn University, a NAIA school.

– Not only did the Patriots zero in on major college talent, they looked especially hard at the major conferences. Of those 77 players, 55 were taken from schools in the Atlantic Coast, Big 12, Big 10, Pac-10 and Southeastern Conferences, along with Notre Dame. The Big 12 and SEC led the way with 12 players each.

– Belichick-Pioli hit on their No. 1 picks, as eight of the nine are still with the team. The only one missing is 2002 first-rounder Daniel Graham, who left as a free agent and signed with Denver after five seasons in New England. The remaining eight are all starters for the Patriots: RDE Richard Seymour, LDE Ty Warren, NT Vince Wilfork, TE Ben Watson, LG Logan Mankins, RB Laurence Maroney, S Brandon Meriweather and LB Jerod Mayo.

– As good as they were in the first round, New England was bad in the second round. They had eight choices in that round in nine years, and only two remain with the team: starting left tackle Matt Light and rookie cornerback Terrence Wheatley, who finished the season on the injured-reserve list after playing in seven games

– The Patriots had what could be called the greatest value pick of the decade when they grabbed quarterback Tom Brady with choice No. 199 in the sixth round of the 2000 Draft. Brady went on to become quite possibly the greatest clutch quarterback in the history of the game, leading the team to three Super Bowls.

– They may have done it again with seventh-round choice quarterback Matt Cassel, who came in and replaced the injured Brady in the ‘08 season opener against the Chiefs and went on to a remarkable season for a quarterback who had not been a starter since high school.

– In nine drafts, the highest quarterback selection for the Patriots came in the ‘08 Draft when they took quarterback Kevin O’Connell in the third round with the 94th pick. Only five of the other 31 teams in the league have not drafted a quarterback higher than the 94th spot: Indianapolis, New Orleans, Carolina, Tampa Bay and St. Louis. Some have taken more than one quarterback higher than No. 94.

– As good as the Patriots have been at finding quarterbacks, that’s how bad they’ve been in finding and keeping wide receivers. They’ve drafted six, including a trio of second-round picks. One of those was just two years ago, when they grabbed Florida’s Chad Jackson, but they released him at the end of the ‘08 pre-season. Of the six wide receivers on the roster at the end of the ‘08 season, only one came through the draft: rookie Matthew Slater. Their two starters, Randy Moss and Wes Welker, cost them second, fourth and seventh round picks.

– New England invested a lot of early draft choices along the defensive line, with three first-round picks and one second-rounder among 11 total picks. They only used three early choices along the offensive line, with one first and a pair of second-round choices.

– They selected eight tight ends in nine drafts, including a pair of first-round choices. That’s more first round tight ends than first round quarterbacks/running backs/wide receivers combined.

– Their favorite positions in the draft were linebacker and cornerback, where they’ve selected 10 players each.

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

– New England’s average pick in the first round over the last nine years was No. 20. There were no picks in the top five and only two in the top 10 and three in the top half of the draft.

[...]

– Belichick-Pioli hit on their No. 1 picks, as eight of the nine are still with the team. The only one missing is 2002 first-rounder Daniel Graham, who left as a free agent and signed with Denver after five seasons in New England. The remaining eight are all starters for the Patriots...

Chiefs record? Drafted 5th, 15th, 23rd, 20th, 15th, 27th, 6th, 21st, 14th, 27th... Average: 17th pick.

2008 1 Glenn Dorsey Louisiana State (starter)
2008 1 Branden Albert Virginia (starter)
2007 1 Dwayne Bowe Louisiana State (starter)
2006 1 Tamba Hali Penn State (starter)
2005 1 Derrick O. Johnson Texas (starter)
2004 (none)
2003 1 Larry Johnson Penn State (starter, soon to be gone?)
2002 1 Ryan Sims North Carolina (bust)
2001 (none)
2000 1 Sylvester Morris Jackson State (bust)
1999 1 John Tait Brigham Young (gone)
1998 1 Victor Riley Auburn (bust)

Credit to Herm improving us in this area.

[T-post Tom]

Originally Posted by jAZ

Chiefs record? Drafted 5th, 15th, 23rd, 20th, 15th, 27th, 6th, 21st, 14th, 27th... Average: 17th pick.

2008 1 Glenn Dorsey Louisiana State (starter)
2008 1 Branden Albert Virginia (starter)
2007 1 Dwayne Bowe Louisiana State (starter)
2006 1 Tamba Hali Penn State (starter)
2005 1 Derrick O. Johnson Texas (starter)
2004 (none)
2003 1 Larry Johnson Penn State (starter, soon to be gone?)
2002 1 Ryan Sims North Carolina (bust)
2001 (none)
2000 1 Sylvester Morris Jackson State (bust)
1999 1 John Tait Brigham Young (gone)
1998 1 Victor Riley Auburn (bust)

Credit to Herm improving us in this area.

Starters...yes. But on a 2-14 team. I'm sold on Albert, but Dorsey is a mystery, Bowe's still dropping balls(not giving up hope), Hali looks overwhelmed as Allen's replacement(LB in 3-4?), DJ has been underwhelming(will a new coaching staff help?), and LJ is a shadow of his former self. Just my humble opinion.

[Ebolapox]

I just wonder if pioli will have the balls to take a QB in the top three. doesn't seem the pats' M.O, unfortunately.

[RustShack]

Originally Posted by H5N1

I just wonder if pioli will have the balls to take a QB in the top three. doesn't seem the pats' M.O, unfortunately.

I think Brady was just pure luck and Cassel was the product of the offense the Patriots now have. I think Pioli might want a great QB and take one in the first to begin with instead of trying to strike gold in the later rounds.

[T-post Tom]

Originally Posted by H5N1

I just wonder if pioli will have the balls to take a QB in the top three. doesn't seem the pats' M.O, unfortunately.

My bet is that he trades down into the 2nd half of the first.

[Ebolapox]

Originally Posted by RustShack

I think Brady was just pure luck and Cassel was the product of the offense the Patriots now have. I think Pioli might want a great QB and take one in the first to begin with instead of trying to strike gold in the later rounds.

I ****ing hope so.

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

Starters...yes. But on a 2-14 team. I'm sold on Albert, but Dorsey is a mystery, Bowe's still dropping balls(not giving up hope), Hali looks overwhelmed as Allen's replacement(LB in 3-4?), DJ has been underwhelming(will a new coaching staff help?), and LJ is a shadow of his former self. Just my humble opinion.

I was trying to show the difference between a well run draft (Pioli) and a spotty draft (Carl). I just realized in the process that Herm deserves credit for improving over Carl. His strength was as a scout, and I think it's reflected in the absence of a Victor Riley, Ryan Sims, Trezell Jenkins, SlyMo, or even an unfortunate John Tait disaster

[Ebolapox]

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

My bet is that he trades down into the 2nd half of the first.

I believe our best shot at a franchise QB is stafford. he won't be available in the second half of the first round.

you watch, though. we'll get nate davis in the third round and he'll be the guy. ****, can lightning strike a third time? (pioli pulling a starting QB out of his ass)

[T-post Tom]

Originally Posted by jAZ

I was trying to show the difference between a well run draft (Pioli) and a spotty draft (Carl). I just realized in the process that Herm deserves credit for improving over Carl. His strength was as a scout, and I think it's reflected in the absence of a Victor Riley, Ryan Sims, Trezell Jenkins, SlyMo, or even an unfortunate John Tait disaster

Very true. And that's w/o mentioning Junior Saivii.

[T-post Tom]

Originally Posted by H5N1

I believe our best shot at a franchise QB is stafford. he won't be available in the second half of the first round.

you watch, though. we'll get nate davis in the third round and he'll be the guy. ****, can lightning strike a third time? (pioli pulling a starting QB out of his ass)

"...(pioli pulling a starting QB out of his ass)"

Niswanger did it three times in one season.... oh wait, those were three backup QBs...

[btlook1]

Originally Posted by jAZ

I was trying to show the difference between a well run draft (Pioli) and a spotty draft (Carl). I just realized in the process that Herm deserves credit for improving over Carl. His strength was as a scout, and I think it's reflected in the absence of a Victor Riley, Ryan Sims, Trezell Jenkins, SlyMo, or even an unfortunate John Tait disaster

I agree the drafting has improved quite a bit in the last few years. I know the jury is still out on Dorsey but it's just to early to say if he's a bust or not. Bowe and Albert are money in my opinion.
I almost think he should give Herm 1 more year. I think Gun can hit the road though...if Herm screws it up this next year then he can get the boot quickly! Our offense is ok not great but ok. The defense needs some work but with the right GM and Defensive coach we could be contenders in a year or two easily.

[Mecca]

You can't really judge them on the QB picks, Bledsoe was there as the #1 overall pick and had a a huge franchise player contract when Pioli came in, they use a late round pick on Brady and he becomes a star, they have no reason to use another high pick on a QB.

[kobebehar]

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

A Look At Pioli’s Record/Part 1
January 13, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

There are four different avenues that produce players for NFL teams.

There is unrestricted free agency, street free agents or players that have failed with another team and college free agents.

But the biggest pipeline is the NFL Draft.

There is no question that the Super Bowl success of the New England Patriots was built on draft picks. Just about all their key performers came through selections made by Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli (left).

Not a lot is known about just how the Patriots operated in the draft room, but we know Belichick had the final say so. We also know he had a great deal of faith in Pioli and his scouts’ ability to match college players with what Belichick was looking for on his roster. There was most definitely a plan, and most definitely a template for physical characteristics and skills at certain positions.

A team that takes advantage of the draft does two things: it does not make mistakes at the top of the draft and it finds gems in the later rounds, players who make contributions despite being selected late in the process. For the most part, the Patriots did both and that allowed them to win three Super Bowls.

Here’s the list of players the Patriots drafted from 2000-2004.
http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-footb...2000-2004.html

Here’s the list of players the Patriots drafted from 2005-2008.
http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-footb...2005-2008.html

And here are some items of interest that come out of analyzing the 77 players the Patriots have selected in the 2000 through 2008 NFL Drafts:

– New England’s average pick in the first round over the last nine years was No. 20. There were no picks in the top five and only two in the top 10 and three in the top half of the draft. Because of their success, they normally held draft positions late in rounds. They had just 14 picks in the top 50 and 26 in the top 100.

– The Patriots did not use picks on small college players. Of those 77 selected, 74 were from major college teams/Division 1. Two were from what used to be called Division 1-AA and they drafted just one small college player: TE Andy Stokes, who was the final player taken in the 2005 Draft out of William Penn University, a NAIA school.

– Not only did the Patriots zero in on major college talent, they looked especially hard at the major conferences. Of those 77 players, 55 were taken from schools in the Atlantic Coast, Big 12, Big 10, Pac-10 and Southeastern Conferences, along with Notre Dame. The Big 12 and SEC led the way with 12 players each.

– Belichick-Pioli hit on their No. 1 picks, as eight of the nine are still with the team. The only one missing is 2002 first-rounder Daniel Graham, who left as a free agent and signed with Denver after five seasons in New England. The remaining eight are all starters for the Patriots: RDE Richard Seymour, LDE Ty Warren, NT Vince Wilfork, TE Ben Watson, LG Logan Mankins, RB Laurence Maroney, S Brandon Meriweather and LB Jerod Mayo.

– As good as they were in the first round, New England was bad in the second round. They had eight choices in that round in nine years, and only two remain with the team: starting left tackle Matt Light and rookie cornerback Terrence Wheatley, who finished the season on the injured-reserve list after playing in seven games

– The Patriots had what could be called the greatest value pick of the decade when they grabbed quarterback Tom Brady with choice No. 199 in the sixth round of the 2000 Draft. Brady went on to become quite possibly the greatest clutch quarterback in the history of the game, leading the team to three Super Bowls.

– They may have done it again with seventh-round choice quarterback Matt Cassel, who came in and replaced the injured Brady in the ‘08 season opener against the Chiefs and went on to a remarkable season for a quarterback who had not been a starter since high school.

– In nine drafts, the highest quarterback selection for the Patriots came in the ‘08 Draft when they took quarterback Kevin O’Connell in the third round with the 94th pick. Only five of the other 31 teams in the league have not drafted a quarterback higher than the 94th spot: Indianapolis, New Orleans, Carolina, Tampa Bay and St. Louis. Some have taken more than one quarterback higher than No. 94.

– As good as the Patriots have been at finding quarterbacks, that’s how bad they’ve been in finding and keeping wide receivers. They’ve drafted six, including a trio of second-round picks. One of those was just two years ago, when they grabbed Florida’s Chad Jackson, but they released him at the end of the ‘08 pre-season. Of the six wide receivers on the roster at the end of the ‘08 season, only one came through the draft: rookie Matthew Slater. Their two starters, Randy Moss and Wes Welker, cost them second, fourth and seventh round picks.

– New England invested a lot of early draft choices along the defensive line, with three first-round picks and one second-rounder among 11 total picks. They only used three early choices along the offensive line, with one first and a pair of second-round choices.

– They selected eight tight ends in nine drafts, including a pair of first-round choices. That’s more first round tight ends than first round quarterbacks/running backs/wide receivers combined.

– Their favorite positions in the draft were linebacker and cornerback, where they’ve selected 10 players each.

Interesting. Im thinking you guys could definitely do with some depth at TE.

the 3rd pick might be a little high, so trade down to ten or eleven and get Darius Hill.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by btlook1

I agree the drafting has improved quite a bit in the last few years. I know the jury is still out on Dorsey but it's just to early to say if he's a bust or not. Bowe and Albert are money in my opinion.
I almost think he should give Herm 1 more year. I think Gun can hit the road though...if Herm screws it up this next year then he can get the boot quickly! Our offense is ok not great but ok. The defense needs some work but with the right GM and Defensive coach we could be contenders in a year or two easily.

There's no way in hell one (possibly) good draft can justify keeping a ****ing idiot who has no idea how to manage a game.