Cassel or Sanchez?

[KCBOSS1]

I realize that we are where we are, but the more I see about Sanchez, the more I'm afraid that a few years down the road, we may look back and realize that we passed up on the franchise guy that we've been looking for. I know that Cassel played ok last year, but is he a franchise guy? ...likely not. Thoughts?

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

It never hurts having Moss and Welker as your two primary targets, look at 2007 vs 2008 for those guys and aside from RECs being down for Moss, they're both consistent with their AVG YPC... those two guys help any QB and they have nice YAC.

so if the YAC #s are consistent between cassel and brady does it make an argument against cassel work?

[SAUTO]

also in that same article they say that YAC yards are due to the WR being to run and elude tacklers AND the qb ball placement, so the argument AGAINST cassel does not work

[DTLB58]

Originally Posted by milkman

Because we have that capacity to think for ourselves that evidently eludes you.

So, If i just happen to agree with them I can't think for myself?

With that line of thinking your saying we all have to disagree with management EVERY time.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

... but no one talks about how many YAC they had when TB was behind center....

Moss and Welker hit the scene in 2007 with NE and that is when Brady went berzerko from a stats perspective. Prior to that, Brady has a solid producer with mid/high 3k passing efforts and in the mid/high 20's for TDs.

All I'm saying is that is one hell of a receiving duo, the likes of which few teams have... KC being one of them, so it will be interesting to see what Matt does in 2009.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

also in that same article they say that YAC yards are due to the WR being to run and elude tacklers AND the qb ball placement, so the argument AGAINST cassel does not work

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

so if the YAC #s are consistent between cassel and brady does it make an argument against cassel work?

Actually, I think it speaks to the greatness of the NE system... Brady was a stats monster in this system in 2007 with those 2 WRs, then in 2008 Cassell puts up solid numbers.

The question is... can he be productive outside of that system, because that is where he is now with the Chiefs. KC 2009 is nothing like NE 2008.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Moss and Welker hit the scene in 2007 with NE and that is when Brady went berzerko from a stats perspective. Prior to that, Brady has a solid producer with mid/high 3k passing efforts and in the mid/high 20's for TDs.

Out of fairness to him, he'd been a 'solid producer' with nothing in the way of receivers and pedestrian runningbacks. He carried that offense for years on his own. We're talking about a guy proven to be a top player at his position in his own right.

That offense wasn't even close to the same with Cassel last year, although it probably wouldn't ever repeat 2007's numbers even with Brady. That was a 'stars align' kind of year.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Moss and Welker hit the scene in 2007 with NE and that is when Brady went berzerko from a stats perspective. Prior to that, Brady has a solid producer with mid/high 3k passing efforts and in the mid/high 20's for TDs.

All I'm saying is that is one hell of a receiving duo, the likes of which few teams have... KC being one of them, so it will be interesting to see what Matt does in 2009.

i just think some of the arguments used against cassel are baseless, these guys arent taking into account that brady had the same things happen the year before. does that downgrade brady also? and yeah cassel didnt have as good of #s but would brady have had those same #s his first year?

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Actually, I think it speaks to the greatness of the NE system... Brady was a stats monster in this system in 2007 with those 2 WRs, then in 2008 Cassell puts up solid numbers.

The question is... can he be productive outside of that system, because that is where he is now with the Chiefs. KC 2009 is nothing like NE 2008.

my main point here is ball placement. it's important in YAC and if the pats lead the league in YAC all of it CANT go on the WRs cassel gets credit there too.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Out of fairness to him, he'd been a 'solid producer' with nothing in the way of receivers and pedestrian runningbacks. He carried that offense for years on his own.

True, I wasn't trying to gloss over that... Brady was a great QB without a stellar set of WRs.

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

i just think some of the arguments used against cassel are baseless, these guys arent taking into account that brady had the same things happen the year before. does that downgrade brady also? and yeah cassel didnt have as good of #s but would brady have had those same #s his first year?

That's the thing - nobody knows. Look at Tom Brady in that 'offensive system' prior to Moss/Welker. Brady was a consistent winner and nice stats producer. Enter Moss/Welker and he rewrites the record books.

So, Cassel stepped into an offense with two phenom WRs that had helped Brady be one of the top 2-3 QBs in the league for the last half decade.

Yeah, I totally get why some may question Cassel's ability to produce outside of that environment. Could he be Tom Brady part Deaux? Sure... but, I have to see it to believe it.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

.

That offense wasn't even close to the same with Cassel last year, although it probably wouldn't ever repeat 2007's numbers even with Brady. That was a 'stars align' kind of year.

i have been saying this for a month, some people here have annointed the pats as last years champs had brady played and bashed cassel for not doing the exact same thing that brady did before. i have said multiple times brady probably wouldnt have done that last year again, look at peyton manning's career stats, consistent years and one HUGE year then back to the same as before

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

my main point here is ball placement. it's important in YAC and if the pats lead the league in YAC all of it CANT go on the WRs cassel gets credit there too.

Sure, Cassel gets credit... I doubt that Alex Smith or Rex Grossman could have done as well. But, let's not act as if Cassel wasn't the main beneficiary here of that system.

Did he do well and make the most of a very advantageous situation? Hell yea.... could it do it again, sure.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

True, I wasn't trying to gloss over that... Brady was a great QB without a stellar set of WRs.



That's the thing - nobody knows. Look at Tom Brady in that 'offensive system' prior to Moss/Welker. Brady was a consistent winner and nice stats producer. Enter Moss/Welker and he rewrites the record books.

So, Cassel stepped into an offense with two phenom WRs that had helped Brady be one of the top 2-3 QBs in the league for the last half decade.

Yeah, I totally get why some may question Cassel's ability to produce outside of that environment. Could he be Tom Brady part Deaux? Sure... but, I have to see it to believe it.

was tom brady "that guy" his first year(top 2-3)??? nope why should cassel be expected to step in right off and be the tom brady of 2007???

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

i have been saying this for a month, some people here have annointed the pats as last years champs had brady played and bashed cassel for not doing the exact same thing that brady did before. i have said multiple times brady probably wouldnt have done that last year again, look at peyton manning's career stats, consistent years and one HUGE year then back to the same as before

I doubt Brady would have repeated those stats either... but, let's not act as if 1 year proves that Cassel is in the same league as those two guys just yet. If he were, the Pats would have kept him and traded Brady.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Sure, Cassel gets credit... I doubt that Alex Smith or Rex Grossman could have done as well. But, let's not act as if Cassel wasn't the main beneficiary here of that system.

Did he do well and make the most of a very advantageous situation? Hell yea.... could it do it again, sure.

the "system" will be pretty close here IMO and with TG??? bowe and surely someone else we will see. if bowe gets hit on the run he will be a beast

[StcChief]

Cassel