Chiefs Matt Cassel on 810 WHB tomorrow

milkman · 06-04-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

I know most people think I'm out of my mind for going total yards, but the Chiefs WR's and LINE are going to make life very trying for Cassel, and we rarely if EVER do shit on yards after the catch unless our guys happen to be wide-open with not a damned soul in sight to stop them.
If Waters holds out and doesn't show up, it get's REAL interesting at that point.

As Jason Sauto mentioned, that YAC will almost certainly be improved when these receivers, especially Bowe can make catches in stride, because the ball is delivered accurately.

Cassel, if nothing else, is far more accurate than Thigpen.

It's really difficult to rack up any YAC when you are constantly having to make plays simply to make the catch.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 06-04-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

As Jason Sauto mentioned, that YAC will almost certainly be improved when these receivers, especially Bowe can make catches in stride, because the ball is delivered accurately.

Cassel, if nothing else, is far more accurate than Thigpen.

It's really difficult to rack up any YAC when you are constantly having to make plays simply to make the catch.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, since there's no way to know without watching every pass Cassel threw last year, but...

How accurate do you have to be when a WR is WIDE open?

When I think of YAC due to hitting guys in stride, I think of Warner and the Rams "Greatest Show on Turf."

I didn't really see anything resembling that in the 8-10 Patriots games I watched last year. I saw a lot of separation from the WR's, and I saw guys making a move, a defender missing, and 20+ yards being picked up.

FWIW, I do agree that Cassel is much more accurate than Thigpen. That's a given, IMO.

milkman · 06-04-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Just to play Devil's Advocate, since there's no way to know without watching every pass Cassel threw last year, but...

How accurate do you have to be when a WR is WIDE open?

When I think of YAC due to hitting guys in stride, I think of Warner and the Rams "Greatest Show on Turf."

I didn't really see anything resembling that in the 8-10 Patriots games I watched last year. I saw a lot of separation from the WR's, and I saw guys making a move, a defender missing, and 20+ yards being picked up.

FWIW, I do agree that Cassel is much more accurate than Thigpen. That's a given, IMO.

With the closing speed that secondary defenders in the NFL have, even if a receiver is open by about ten yards, if the balll is delivered as inaccurately as Thigpen delivered it, there isn't much opportunity for YAC.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 06-04-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

With the closing speed that secondary defenders in the NFL have, even if a receiver is open by about ten yards, if the balll is delivered as inaccurately as Thigpen delivered it, there isn't much opportunity for YAC.

Well, yeah.

I was talking about Cassel.

milkman · 06-04-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Well, yeah.

I was talking about Cassel.

The point is, when these receivers, especially Bowe have some separation, Cassel can deliver the ball accurately and give them an opportunity.

chiefzilla1501 · 06-04-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Just to play Devil's Advocate, since there's no way to know without watching every pass Cassel threw last year, but...

How accurate do you have to be when a WR is WIDE open?

When I think of YAC due to hitting guys in stride, I think of Warner and the Rams "Greatest Show on Turf."

I didn't really see anything resembling that in the 8-10 Patriots games I watched last year. I saw a lot of separation from the WR's, and I saw guys making a move, a defender missing, and 20+ yards being picked up.

FWIW, I do agree that Cassel is much more accurate than Thigpen. That's a given, IMO.

I'm sure you've already seen the youtube clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ctvPzDMfp0
Half of those plays are definitely short, gimme passes to a wide open receiver (usually Welker). But pay attention to the other half. For as good as the receivers are, the majority of the passes were perfectly placed balls. I was especially impressed with his command of when to lead a receiver and when to get it into his back shoulder.

I realize it's a highlight reel and you see the good, but not the bad. But it should be reassuring that there are enough highlights where you can clearly see his ability to put the ball in a perfect spot. I still believe that his offensive line handicapped him a lot more than people realize and I still believe that if the Chiefs can one day put a real offensive line in front of him and he can consistently step into his throws, he will have tremendous upside.

I don't buy into the inaccuracy stuff. I think people say that because he doesn't throw a real pretty deep ball. But from what I've seen, when he has an opportunity to set his feet, he throws a really hard, accurate ball.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 06-04-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I'm sure you've already seen the youtube clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ctvPzDMfp0
Half of those plays are definitely short, gimme passes to a wide open receiver (usually Welker). But pay attention to the other half. For as good as the receivers are, the majority of the passes were perfectly placed balls. I was especially impressed with his command of when to lead a receiver and when to get it into his back shoulder.

I realize it's a highlight reel and you see the good, but not the bad. But it should be reassuring that there are enough highlights where you can clearly see his ability to put the ball in a perfect spot. I still believe that his offensive line handicapped him a lot more than people realize and I still believe that if the Chiefs can one day put a real offensive line in front of him and he can consistently step into his throws, he will have tremendous upside.

I don't buy into the inaccuracy stuff. I think people say that because he doesn't throw a real pretty deep ball. But from what I've seen, when he has an opportunity to set his feet, he throws a really hard, accurate ball.

Like I said, I think he is accurate.

I'm just not convinces that all that YAC is the result of his accuracy, rather the skill and separation of his WR's and RB's.

**SAUTO** · 06-04-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Like I said, I think he is accurate.

I'm just not convinces that all that YAC is the result of his accuracy, rather the skill and separation of his WR's and RB's.

IMO it's both the WR and the QB. both have to do THEIR job for it to work out. even on the "gimme" passes if the ball wasnt in a good spot the WR/RB would not have ANY chance to make a move. watch the chiefs lasst year, how many times did the WR have to jump or fall down just to get their hands on the ball? doesnt lead to much RAC if you ask me

**Buehler445** · 06-04-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Like I said, I think he is accurate.

I'm just not convinces that all that YAC is the result of his accuracy, rather the skill and separation of his WR's and RB's.

It will certainly be interesting to watch. Last year Bradley got some UNGODLY separation. Just rediculous. And then Thigpen woudl throw an equally rediculous (except bad) ball. It could have been part of the gimicky offense, but on several plays the dude was wide the **** open. And Bowe can be difficult to bring down. I think there is potential there to be some YAC. But getting the ball out accurately with our line can be tough.

**SAUTO** · 06-04-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

It will certainly be interesting to watch. Last year Bradley got some UNGODLY separation. Just rediculous. And then Thigpen woudl throw an equally rediculous (except bad) ball. It could have been part of the gimicky offense, but on several plays the dude was wide the **** open. And Bowe can be difficult to bring down. I think there is potential there to be some YAC. But getting the ball out accurately with our line can be tough.

watch the pats line last year, they werent much, if any, better than us

milkman · 06-04-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Like I said, I think he is accurate.

I'm just not convinces that all that YAC is the result of his accuracy, rather the skill and separation of his WR's and RB's.

No, the YAC isn't all the result of accuracy.

However, the terrible YAC numbers the Chiefs put up is almost entirely the result of poorly thrown balls.

milkman · 06-04-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

No, the YAC isn't all the result of accuracy.

However, the terrible YAC numbers the Chiefs put up is almost entirely the result of poorly thrown balls.

That's not entirely true.

The Pats line over the years have looked better than they actually are because of Tom Brady's pocket presense, and his uncanny ability to slide away from pressure.

But they weren't as bad as they appeared last because Cassel did take too long on his reads and held onto the ball too long.

That improved as the year progressed, but he still has plenty of room for improvement.

**SAUTO** · 06-04-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

That's not entirely true.

The Pats line over the years have looked better than they actually are because of Tom Brady's pocket presense, and his uncanny ability to slide away from pressure.

But they weren't as bad as they appeared last because Cassel did take too long on his reads and held onto the ball too long.

That improved as the year progressed, but he still has plenty of room for improvement.

i'll assume that you meant to qoute me, watching the games the limemen were OWNED many times, cassel did hold the ball too long sometimes, most qbs do sometimes, and he may have done it more often than others, BUT the line didnt do him many favors IMO

**doomy3** · 06-04-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

No, the YAC isn't all the result of accuracy.

However, the terrible YAC numbers the Chiefs put up is almost entirely the result of poorly thrown balls.

Not only that, but when you are throwing to targets that are posting up (TG over the middle stationary, and Bowe on hitches), you're not going to get nearly as much YAC as you do in Haley and Belicheck's slashing, cross-patern, hit-in-stride offenses.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 06-04-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

As Jason Sauto mentioned, that YAC will almost certainly be improved when these receivers, especially Bowe can make catches in stride, because the ball is delivered accurately.

Cassel, if nothing else, is far more accurate than Thigpen.

It's really difficult to rack up any YAC when you are constantly having to make plays simply to make the catch.

True enough. But even if Bowe and co. display immaculate timing, it's not gonna' mean jack when three defenders are tearing through your line and barreling at your ass full-speed.*

And WHO is it...that likes to take his sweet time releasing?

And WHO is it...that can't or won't block for jack-shit in the back field?

Variables. Tons of them.

*This is doubly-so if Waters is a no-go.