Chiefs The myth of Pioli - Page 10

B_Ambuehl · 12-07-2009, 01:12 PM

LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0

This time it’s personnel
Building to collapse
By Ron Borges
Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago
+ Recent Articles

MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner.

That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21.

Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro
football.

It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way.

Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday.

While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL.

These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots.

“It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him.

Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now.

Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom?

They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom?

Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom?

Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses?

That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change.

“We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.”

The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it.

“We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too.

“Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.”

That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.

keg in kc · 12-07-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Actually, I haven't noticed anyone claiming that the "results are there". Just people who feel it is somewhat premature to jam our panties up our asses and hold our breath until we turn blue.

That's just the inherent polarization of internet discussion. If you're not with me, you're against me...

**dirk digler** · 12-07-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I really don't get why expecting Scott Pioli to find a handful of players for the future in his first year is asking to much but apparently it is.

I think they might have with Jackson and Magee. But you know D-Lineman take alot longer to show progress than pretty much any position on the field.

BigChiefFan · 12-07-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Do you have reading comprehension skills?

Where is the progress? Where is a nice core player Scott Pioli got us to build upon?

No one was asking for a good year but this idea that because we didn't expect that means everyone can completely suck and it's ok is stupid as hell.

He got THREE STARTERS with his first two picks. MaGee looks to be a solid role-player. We also got a starting Kicker. Washington has been injured(kind of hard to evaluate him)The other players are second day picks, I didn't expect much out of them in the first place.

**SAUTO** · 12-07-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's amazing that none of you dumb mother****ers, in spending voluminous time defending him, still don't realize that VP of Pro Personnel isn't the ****ing GM of the team.

Scott Pioli has been a GM for one offseason and 12 games. That's his experience in this position.

ok hamas what EXACTLY DID pioli do in NE? enlighten us.

Mecca · 12-07-2009, 03:44 PM

3 starters...

An old LB who's done, a QB who is shit and a 5 tech DE with a top 3 pick, color me unimpressed.

**DeezNutz** · 12-07-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I don't know about that. This organization has been in loser mode for 3 years so I understand when they say they want to change the mentality or the culture of losing. But the best way to do that is to win so we still have a ways to go.

A "culture of losing" is a myth. When talented players and coaches are acquired, most teams tend to win.

Talking about fighting a "culture" is what losers do when they're not seeing results. It's a prolonged justification, citing something that is not quantifiable.

We haven't had a "losing culture" in KC; we've had a dog shit talent pool, on the 53 man roster and in the front office.

**The Bad Guy** · 12-07-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

He got THREE STARTERS with his first two picks. MaGee looks to be a solid role-player. We also got a starting Kicker. Washington has been injured(kind of hard to evaluate him)The other players are second day picks, I didn't expect much out of them in the first place.

It's hilarious that the ones bitching about Tyson Jackson are likely the same ones who were saying that Glenn Dorsey needs time to develop because the DL is the toughest position for a rookie.

Hammock Parties · 12-07-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Maybe we'll see improvement in both the coaching staff and player personnel.

FAX

Question: why couldn't we have seen that improvement THIS YEAR?

keg in kc · 12-07-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

It's hilarious that the ones bitching about Tyson Jackson are likely the same ones who were saying that Glenn Dorsey needs time to develop because the DL is the toughest position for a rookie.

It's not about developing with him, it's because he's a 3-4 DE. He could start a dozen consecutive pro bowls and it would still be a bad pick.

Okay, maybe I exaggerate.

A little.

philfree · 12-07-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

It's hilarious that the ones bitching about Tyson Jackson are likely the same ones who were saying that Glenn Dorsey needs time to develop because the DL is the toughest position for a rookie.

That's because they didn't take Dorsey over Sanchex.

PhilFree

Mecca · 12-07-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Question: why couldn't we have seen that improvement THIS YEAR?

It's obviously to much to ask for someone to take a job and actually do a good job right away.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-07-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

How many times can a guy say "it's too soon to tell" until the idea finally registers. It's not about 2009. It's never been about 2009. Whether they've succeeded or failed is a question that can't possibly be answered now.

I don't think it's too early to tell at all.

Honestly tell me who we've acquired since February that you think even has the remote possibility of becoming a core player here.

Here's my list:

Succop
Jackson

And Jackson is a case of "I hope" and not, "I think."

The rest have shown nothing to lead someone to believe that they'll be anything more than role players, rotational guys or special teamers - at best.

Hammock Parties · 12-07-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I really don't get why expecting Scott Pioli to find a handful of players for the future in his first year is asking to much but apparently it is.

It doesn't take much, honestly.

Herm found Hali, Page, Pollard, Bowe and made something out of Allen his first two years. And I was sucking him off something fierce.

If Haley and Pioli can't even get ME on my knees.....FAIL!

Mecca · 12-07-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

It's hilarious that the ones bitching about Tyson Jackson are likely the same ones who were saying that Glenn Dorsey needs time to develop because the DL is the toughest position for a rookie.

You do understand there is a difference in taking a 4-3 DT you think can be Warren Sapp that some thought was the drafts best player and taking a guy who is a teens player.

Not to mention lineman in the 4-3 and 3-4 are not the same Dorsey was drafted to be an impact player Jackson will likely never be one.

**DeezNutz** · 12-07-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Question: why couldn't we have seen that improvement THIS YEAR?

We're changing the culture.

12-07-2009, 01:12 PM
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9705405	The myth of Pioli LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik. http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0 This time it’s personnel Building to collapse By Ron Borges Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago + Recent Articles MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner. That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21. Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro football. It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way. Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday. While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL. These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots. “It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him. Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now. Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom? They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom? Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom? Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses? That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change. “We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.” The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it. “We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too. “Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.” That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.
Posts: 2,613

12-07-2009, 03:44 PM	#140
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-562950	3 starters... An old LB who's done, a QB who is shit and a 5 tech DE with a top 3 pick, color me unimpressed.
Posts: 115,293