Check this out: [8.4.2010 5792261] Notice of Copyright Infringement

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Dude, you said "Great Players". I disagreed.

A "Great Player" is someone who can walk into a recording studio and immediately record the "Perfect Take", whether it's a singer, guitarist, drummer, bassist, etc. A "Great Player" is a guy like Larry Carlton or Dean Parks, guys who've been on more than 500 albums each.

The ability to play or write a song doesn't automatically make someone a "great player". Being able to "play" should be a given.

The ability of a "great player" is far beyond that.

That's fair, and instead of further belaboring what is entirely a semantics argument I'll change my language to better reflect the irrefutable point I wanted to make in the first place: there is lots of good, valuable music from last decade and there are lots of good, valuable bands from last decade.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

there is lots of good, valuable music from last decade and there are lots of good, valuable bands from last decade.

I understand your opinion on the subject but I happen to disagree.

If in 20 years, bands from the past decade are being constantly played on the radio (or whatever the format may be at that time), appear in films and TV, you'll have a point.

But from my POV, I don't see that happening.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I understand your opinion on the subject but I happen to disagree.

If in 20 years, bands from the past decade are being constantly played on the radio (or whatever the format may be at that time), appear in films and TV, you'll have a point.

But from my POV, I don't see that happening.

I can't in any way agree with your apparent, bewildering stance that good music necessarily = mainstream popular music. That stance is as evil to culture as piracy is to morality. There is no defense for it.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I can't in any way agree with your apparent, bewildering stance that good music necessarily = mainstream popular music. That stance is as evil to culture as piracy is to morality. There is no defense for it.

There are very, very, very, very few bands that have a great legacy and a very small audience.

Never did I mention that a band had to have mainstream popularity to create good music, although in the past, popularity went hand in hand with the music that was created.

Furthermore, I mentioned specific uses in film and TV. We find instances of music from the 60's, 70's & 80's still permeating the airwaves, with countless placements in film, television and advertising to this day.

The point I made was that I don't think that in 20 years, the same will happen with music from this decade. It's rare to hear music from the 90's and I think that it'll be the same with this decade.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

There are very, very, very, very few bands that have a great legacy and a very small audience.

Never did I mention that a band had to have mainstream popularity to create good music, although in the past, popularity went hand in hand with the music that was created.

Furthermore, I mentioned specific uses in film and TV. We find instances of music from the 60's, 70's & 80's still permeating the airwaves, with countless placements in film, television and advertising to this day.

The point I made was that I don't think that in 20 years, the same will happen with music from this decade. It's rare to hear music from the 90's and I think that it'll be the same with this decade.

I agree that we won't see an awful lot of music from the '00s in movies or TV in 20 years. Much of what does will be hip hop. But I don't see what that point has to do with my claim that there are good, valuable bands making music these days. Albums from Agalloch or TV on the Radio are going to be looked at as all-time classics by critics and serious music aficionados. There's so much wonderful music out there. It is rarely mainstream viable but that doesn't in any way mean that it isn't good or artistically valuable.

Rhetorically you absolutely did say that good music is mainstream music (insofar as one can agree that music played on radio/applicable future format in 20 years will be apart of the mainstream). You used that point to disagree with my assertion that the '00s had "good, valuable" music that came from it.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I agree that we won't see an awful lot of music from the '00s in movies or TV in 20 years. Much of what does will be hip hop. But I don't see what that point has to do with my claim that there are good, valuable bands making music these days.

Because it's your opinion and of course, you're entitled to it. But that doesn't mean that opinion will be shared by the masses.

There have been hundreds of hit songs and one hit wonders that I have no attachment to whatsoever emotionally, but I can understand and appreciate why others may have that attachment. And there are plenty of records and bands that I love that no one gets. It's the way it goes. Music speaks to each of us differently.

What's relevant to you is apparently a little different than what it's relevant to, for lack of a better term, "the mainstream". And it's far more likely that "mainstream" music will have more longevity and more public uses due to the fact that it's popular and "mainstream".

More people have the shared experience of "mainstream" music than underground music, which will always make "mainstream" music more important and relevant in film, television and advertising.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Because it's your opinion and of course, you're entitled to it. But that doesn't mean that opinion will be shared by the masses.

There have been hundreds of hit songs and one hit wonders that I have no attachment to whatsoever emotionally, but I can understand and appreciate why others may have that attachment. And there are plenty of records and bands that I love that no one gets. It's the way it goes. Music speaks to each of us differently.

What's relevant to you is apparently a little different than what it's relevant to, for lack of a better term, "the mainstream". And it's far more likely that "mainstream" music will have more longevity and more public uses due to the fact that it's popular and "mainstream".

More people have the shared experience of "mainstream" music than underground music, which will always make "mainstream" music more important and relevant in film, television and advertising.

That's the way with everything. Millions of people think that the Transformers movies are great. These people have never seen films by Renoir, Ozu, Kurosawa, etc. That doesn't stop those great, relatively unseen films from being great.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you about this past decade's music's lasting popular legacy. I'm will disagree with you until the ends of the Earth, until we chew and gnash each other to death, that there isn't some really good and even great music being made now.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I agree that we won't see an awful lot of music from the '00s in movies or TV in 20 years. Much of what does will be hip hop. But I don't see what that point has to do with my claim that there are good, valuable bands making music these days. Albums from Agalloch or TV on the Radio are going to be looked at as all-time classics by critics and serious music aficionados. There's so much wonderful music out there. It is rarely mainstream viable but that doesn't in any way mean that it isn't good or artistically valuable.

Rhetorically you absolutely did say that good music is mainstream music (insofar as one can agree that music played on radio/applicable future format in 20 years will be apart of the mainstream). You used that point to disagree with my assertion that the '00s had "good, valuable" music that came from it.

Agreed. Also keep in mind that mainstram isn't what mainstream used to be. Clear channel has completely bastardized radio. Djs play the same music station by station based on mandate instead of what they want. Sirius and xm let's people listen to more variety. Frankly, I think indie music is stronger than I've ever seen it.

And I agree. Todays music isn't overly movie made for movies. But there are plenty that will stick around for a while. Radiohead will be remembered as the father of the electronic age. Muse and kings of leon are indie bands that seem to be seeping into mainstream. I think we're finally seeing a divide between indie and pop. And I agree, dig deep and there are some really great indie bands that have talent and have very strong followings.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Agreed. Also keep in mind that mainstram isn't what mainstream used to be. Clear channel has completely bastardized radio. Djs play the same music station by station based on mandate instead of what they want. Sirius and xm let's people listen to more variety. Frankly, I think indie music is stronger than I've ever seen it.

And I agree. Todays music isn't overly movie made for movies. But there are plenty that will stick around for a while. Radiohead will be remembered as the father of the electronic age. Muse and kings of leon are indie bands that seem to be seeping into mainstream. I think we're finally seeing a divide between indie and pop. And I agree, dig deep and there are some really great indie bands that have talent and have very strong followings.

Radiohead was from the 90's, as was Muse. And Muse is hardly "indie", especially outside of the US.

Regardless, "Indie" bands aren't what's push mainstream movies, film and advertising.

More to the point, there isn't a Led Zeppelin, Who, Eagles, Beatles, Boston, Foreigner, AC/DC, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, Guns 'N' Roses, David Bowie, Eagles, Doobie Brothers, Allmans, Foo Fighters, Journey, Iron Maiden, Kiss, Joe Satriani, Van Halen, Metallica, Pearl Jam, The Cars, The Wallflowers, Yes, ZZ Top or even a Stevie Ray Vaughn spurned from this decade.

It's been lackluster. There are very, very, very few bands and artists that will be around in five years that originated from this decade, let alone 20 years.