Chiefs Someone review Tyson Jackson and rest of Dline. - Page 7

googlegoogle · 08-21-2010, 09:37 PM

Len and Mitch said the Dline looked good.

Sure-Oz · 08-23-2010, 06:03 PM

Via Kent Babb twitter

Todd Haley said today that there's a chance Wallace Gilberry could become a starting DE. Well ... that isn't good news for Dorsey or Jackson 19 minutes ago via web

# I wld guess Jax based on his poor camp, but it'd be odd to have two undersized DEs in the 3-4 @captainmcinnis: Who loses job, Dorsey or Jax? 12 minutes ago via web

chiefzilla1501 · 08-23-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

While I somewhat agree, I don't think it should take three years for the #3 overall player chosen in the NFL draft.

The #3 overall player should pretty much be a finished product, ready to make an immediate impact, unless we're talking QB.

Well, I think "immediate finished product" is jumping the gun a little bit, especially if you're talking about skill positions. A lot of top 3 picks are RBs and WRs and those guys tend to be so athletic that the transition to the NFL isn't that hard. When you're talking about QBs, LTs, CBs, DTs, and DEs, the speed/size of the game is so tremendously different that there's gotta be a learning curve. I look at Mario Williams, Terrence Newman, and D'Brikashaw Ferguson as pretty good examples of top 5 picks who had their share of struggles early on. And lots of top 5-10 D-Tackles were the same way.

What I do agree with is that in year 2, especially when you're atrocious in year 1, you should be seeing progress. So far, we've seen progress from Tyson Jackson this preseason but not nearly enough. I'd still give it until midseason to call him an outright bust. I think most of us by now have learned that he'll likely never live up to the pick, but I think there's still some reason to believe he can improve to be a passable starter.

CrazyHorse · 08-23-2010, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

Via Kent Babb twitter

Todd Haley said today that there's a chance Wallace Gilberry could become a starting DE. Well ... that isn't good news for Dorsey or Jackson 19 minutes ago via web

# I wld guess Jax based on his poor camp, but it'd be odd to have two undersized DEs in the 3-4 @captainmcinnis: Who loses job, Dorsey or Jax? 12 minutes ago via web

I would be very surprized to see Dorsey lose his job. The guy is getting better. TJ would be the guy, IMO

chiefzilla1501 · 08-23-2010, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

I think where D linemen are concerned, you'll find they're not generally finished products. Regardless thier draft position. Especially 3-4 linemen.

Agreed. 3-4 DEs have to learn a totally different different position. They have to read defenses, which they don't do a lot of in college, and have to learn to shed-and-attack, which is also something they don't do much of in a 4-3.

But I also agree w/most people here that the lack of progress is something to worry about.

chiefzilla1501 · 08-23-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

Via Kent Babb twitter

Todd Haley said today that there's a chance Wallace Gilberry could become a starting DE. Well ... that isn't good news for Dorsey or Jackson 19 minutes ago via web

# I wld guess Jax based on his poor camp, but it'd be odd to have two undersized DEs in the 3-4 @captainmcinnis: Who loses job, Dorsey or Jax? 12 minutes ago via web

I have a feeling this is a lot more of the same game they played with Cassel and Bowe last year. I would think they'll give Jackson every chance to succeed, even if that means not giving the guy in the back of the line a fair chance at starting.

I also think if we're building long-term, there's no incentive to go w/Gilberry. Maybe he's a better starter now, but he has a lot less upside than Jackson. Gilberry's a good guy for nickel situations, but I just don't see him being big or strong enough to be an every-down guy.

Coach · 08-23-2010, 06:20 PM

Question. Am watching the Arizona/Nashville game. Is that the same Chris Babin that used to play for the Chiefs awhile back?
Posted via Mobile Device

**BossChief** · 08-23-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

Seymour made 0 impact his 1st year.

yeah, starting on a superbowl winning defenses surely shouldnt count as making an impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

Question. Am watching the Arizona/Nashville game. Is that the same Chris Babin that used to play for the Chiefs awhile back?
Posted via Mobile Device

who is this Chris Babin you speak of?

(yes)

CrazyHorse · 08-23-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Agreed. 3-4 DEs have to learn a totally different different position. They have to read defenses, which they don't do a lot of in college, and have to learn to shed-and-attack, which is also something they don't do much of in a 4-3.

But I also agree w/most people here that the lack of progress is something to worry about.

Yeah, Im a little worried too. I would like to see a little more than what Im seeing. But I also know that in a 3-4 you dont hear much from the DL. The LBers get all the glory.

Let's just say in the end that Im hopeful. I certainly dont think that a player at that position can be judged after a few games. Many folks on this board, and all boards for that matter have a tendency to "evaluate" a player after a handful of games and then commit themselves so deeply to that evaluation that they can no longer even hope they get better.

My opinion is simply this. I havent seen much progress with him. However, I have with Dorsey. Many here had Dorsey as a bust after 3 games in the NFL. Is he a great player? NO. Can he still be? You're damn right he can.

If in the end Jackson winds up being a decent player, great. thats better than we have been doing drafting DL. Im not going to hold it against him where he was drafted. Im simply going to give him a little more time to get better and hope he get's it.

But yeah, Im a little worried.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-23-2010, 07:52 PM

Seriously, for the life of me, I can't figure out why the Chiefs aren't running Dorsey at NT like Jay Ratliff in Dallas with Jackson, Dorsey and Gilberry as starters.

Rotate Magee and Smith at DE with either Lokey/Edwards at the nose.

Penetrate and attack.

Mecca · 08-23-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Seriously, for the life of me, I can't figure out why the Chiefs aren't running Dorsey at NT like Jay Ratliff in Dallas with Jackson, Dorsey and Gilberry as starters.

Rotate Magee and Smith at DE with either Lokey/Edwards at the nose.

Penetrate and attack.

Because the Chiefs don't run the aggressive Dallas type of 3-4, we run a 3-4 that is essentially the cover 2 of 3-4.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-23-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Because the Chiefs don't run the aggressive Dallas type of 3-4, we run a 3-4 that is essentially the cover 2 of 3-4.

Right.

But with the potential of this secondary, the Dallas 3-4 would be far more suitable for the current personnel.

**notorious** · 08-23-2010, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

we run a 3-4 that is essentially the cover 2 of 3-4.

Shoot me in the ****ing head, please.

Pressure through confusing blitzes and penetration while having the D-Backs jump routes is the only way to go in today's NFL.

**BossChief** · 08-23-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Right.

But with the potential of this secondary, the Dallas 3-4 would be far more suitable for the current personnel.

I agree 100%

In fact, I think I started that talk back when it was still a possibility of Wade Phillips being one and done (in the playoffs) in Dallas and not retained. Opening the door for us to pursue him as our DC and bring in his scheme.

Its a shame that we will continue to play players out of position in this day and age just to try and make the scheme fit.

Dorsey could be a league DMVP type player if he played in that 1 gap 3-4 IMHO.

milkman · 08-23-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Right.

But with the potential of this secondary, the Dallas 3-4 would be far more suitable for the current personnel.

It's something we've been trying to figure out for months now.

BossChief and I have talked about it a couple of times in the last year.

**notorious** · 08-23-2010, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Dorsey could be a league DMVP type player if he played in that 1 gap 3-4 IMHO.

This. Mother ****ing THIS.

Why do they continuously play the defense to their weaknesses instead of their strengths?

I see Warren Sapp like potential in Dorsey if he is used like Sapp was.

Disgusting.

08-21-2010, 09:37 PM
googlegoogle Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	Someone review Tyson Jackson and rest of Dline. Len and Mitch said the Dline looked good.
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08-23-2010, 06:20 PM	#96
Coach Champs! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $5748476	Question. Am watching the Arizona/Nashville game. Is that the same Chris Babin that used to play for the Chiefs awhile back? Posted via Mobile Device
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08-23-2010, 07:52 PM	#99
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Seriously, for the life of me, I can't figure out why the Chiefs aren't running Dorsey at NT like Jay Ratliff in Dallas with Jackson, Dorsey and Gilberry as starters. Rotate Magee and Smith at DE with either Lokey/Edwards at the nose. Penetrate and attack.
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