Chiefs How old was Rich Ganon before he was a franchise QB? - Page 9

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 08:24 PM

I keep reading how Cassel is 28 and he is in his sixth season and if he hasn't gotten it by now, he never will. Perhaps we should look at someone who had very similar numbers through his first six seasons.

Rich Gannon was drafted in 1987 by the Pats to be a defensive back. When he bristled at the idea, he was traded to Minnesota. In 1990, Gannon started 12 games. The Vikings had a 11-5 record, and the coaches went with Sean Salisbury. He played a lot over the years 1990-1992. He played in at least 12 games in each of those years, and never had more than 2278 yards. his passer rating was never more than 81.5. in 1990, he had 16 td's and 16 Int's. In 1991, he had 12 td's and 6 int's. in 1992, he had 12 Td's and 13 Int's. 1992 was his sixth season.

In 1993, he was picked up by the Redskins. He had three td's and seven interceptions. He played in only seven games. This was his seventh season.

His eighth season didn't come until 1995 because he was out of football in 1994. He had rotator cuff surgery in 1993, but no one was knocking down his door to get him under contract.

In 1995, Gannon worked out for the Chiefs and signed with the team as the BACKUP to Bono. He was a team player. A guy that would be the backup and not complain. A hard worker. The kind of player that coaches like.

He saw action in four games in 1996. He finally started to 'get it'. This was his 9th season. But, the Chiefs didn't have any faith in him and still went out and got Grbac. I believe Gannon signed a two year extension in 1996 because no one wanted him to be a starter.

Over the course of 1997 and 1998, he started a total of 16 games and played in a total of 21. His passer rating was about 80 over those two years. He threw for 3349 yards in those two seasons combined.

This was years 10 and 11.

The Raiders rewarded Gannon's mediocre numbers over his 11 seasons in the league with an opportunity to win the starting job.

We all know how it turned out.

This is a folk hero around these parts.... and yet, through his first 10 seasons, he was not an extremely accurate passer. He didn't throw downfield very well. He struggled to read defenses. And he was athletic.

Oh, AND he took a ton of sacks. He was sacked 302 times in 4206 pass attempts.

Heck, he wasn't even drafted to be a QB.

Through his first six seasons, Gannon had thrown 1003 passes. He had completed 561 passes. He completed 55.9% of his passes. He had 40 TD's and 36 Int's. He averaged 6.4 yards per attempt. He averaged 11.5 yards per completion. He had 81 sacks, or at about 8 percent of his pass attempts.

Through Cassel's first six seasons, he has thrown 1154 passes. He has completed 678 of them. He is completing 58.7% of his passes. He has 43 TD's. He has 32 Int's. He has averaged 6.5 yards per attempt. He has averaged 11.09 yards per completion. He has 96 sacks, which is about 8% of his pass attempts.

Will Cassel be Gannon? Probably not. But, Gannon wasn't Gannon until his 12th season in the league.... or twice as long as Cassel has been in the league...... That is when Gannon really got it and became a pro bowl QB.

stevieray · 10-12-2010, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

This is a semantic argument not one of substance. You could say the same thing about most QBs in the league. Until he starts costing the Chiefs games, I don't consider it holding them back. If you do, it just means we don't agree on the meaning of the term.

I won't be put into the Cassel-supporter box because I'm not saying nor have I ever suggested that he's doing what needs to be done to earn the job beyond this season. That remains to be seen.

...amazing how the Colts won in spite of their "franchise" QB... even when Charles got more carries...

the goal posts have been constantly moved since Haley has been hired...remember all the BS posted about him last year?

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I think Rich Gannon proved without a shadow of a doubt in Super Bowl XXXVII the difference between a franchise QB and a system QB.

I think the actual difference was Callahan versus Gruden.

milkman · 10-12-2010, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

I would expect nothing else but a deflection when your facts are incorrect.

I have a solid record of admitting when I am wrong, so **** you, you worthless little ****.

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valiant

You have been here for a couple years in November.. When are you expecting to turn into a better poster without so many idiotic threads??

I thought the idea was to generate conversation.

You thought enough to drop in. Mission accomplished.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 10-12-2010, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I have a solid record of admitting when I am wrong, so **** you, you worthless little ****.

milkman · 10-12-2010, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Of course...

Now, at this point, Charles had fumbled on a promising drive and Cassel was 10 of 14, but it was a byproduct of inferior QB play.

Had Bowe actually caught the ball, he would be 11 of 15 with a TD.... but he drops the ball. 10 of 15.

Bowe drops the next one as well.

But, the Chiefs were handling the Colts with no problem other than that horrible QB.

This is why the anti Cassel crowd gets further and further away from any semblance of logic.

Cassel was 10-14 for how many yards?

He had 110 yards leading up to the last possesion, when the Colts were in prevent.

110 yards with about 5 minutes remaining.

Now tell me how that isn't pathetic.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-12-2010, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray

...amazing how the Colts won in spite of their "franchise" QB... even when Charles got more carries...

the goal posts have been constantly moved since Haley has been hired...remember all the BS posted about him last year?

Are these the goalposts that showed:

Cassel could be like Brady

Cassel is ready to step in and lead right away, unlike a rookie QB

Cassel could be Trent Green

Cassel is better than Sanchez

Cassel needs as much time as Sanchez

Cassel could be like Dilfer

Now, all six of these arguments have been made, in succession. If this is not moving the goalposts relative to Matt Cassel, then what is?

patteeu · 10-12-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

The fact that he has a very limited skill set that restricts what the team can do offensively isn't considered holding them back? No offensive TDs in any road game, and the "leader" of the offense (who leads by never taking accountability) has to shoulder a decent portion of blame.

I don't know where you guys get this "never taking accountability" thing. I've heard him hold himself accountable on several occasions. The fact that he doesn't say "I suck and I'll never be the kind of QB this team needs" isn't a sign that he refuses to take accountability.

stevieray · 10-12-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

I think the actual difference was Callahan versus Gruden.

absolutely..Gruden had them totally prepared for gannon, even taking snaps at QB to show them how to read him behind center.

still, it was fun to watch the faiders crash and burn.

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I have a solid record of admitting when I am wrong, so **** you, you worthless little ****.

Actually, you are one of the better posters. But, not when you still think you are right about the overall subject ...ie: Cassel sucks.

In other words, you will bend any facts you need to fit your argument.

You specifically mentioned 10 straight incompletions. When that number isn't a 'little' wrong, it is way off. It was only six, and two of those were drops. Two in a freaking row. Two when Cassel was 10 of 14.

Two, when the Chiefs needed a play to change momentum and really put fear into Indy.

Instead, Bowe drops them and Indy is just confirmed in their believe that they got this.

Manning actually settled down after that drop and played better the rest of the game.

patteeu · 10-12-2010, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

No. it isn't a semantic argument.

If you watch this team and believe that the defense is playing as well as can be expected, and better than we could have hoped, and you believe that the O-Line is improved and providing time in the pocket, and craeting holes for the running game, and you this offense has the talent at hand to put points on the board, but the QB is a deficiancy that keeps that from happening then the answer is that the QB is holding this team back.

If you watch this team and tell me that the offense would struggle just as much to score points with a better QB, then I don't think you are being nearly as objective as you are trying to paint yourself to be.

I have to assume you don't know what the word semantic means.

I've defined my terms and I'll stick with them, thank you.

stevieray · 10-12-2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Cassel was 10-14 for how many yards?

He had 110 yards leading up to the last possesion, when the Colts were in prevent.

110 yards with about 5 minutes remaining.

Now tell me how that isn't pathetic.

they got the ball for the second time with 8 minutes left in the second qtr.

**DeezNutz** · 10-12-2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

I don't know where you guys get this "never taking accountability" thing. I've heard him hold himself accountable on several occasions. The fact that he doesn't say "I suck and I'll never be the kind of QB this team needs" isn't a sign that he refuses to take accountability.

"Graded out perfectly." "Executed the game plan well. . . . Can't ask for much more." Yeah, no idea.

And hyperbolic comment at the end is hyperbolic.

milkman · 10-12-2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

I don't know where you guys get this "never taking accountability" thing. I've heard him hold himself accountable on several occasions. The fact that he doesn't say "I suck and I'll never be the kind of QB this team needs" isn't a sign that he refuses to take accountability.

Please. link us to one of those several occassions, cause all I've ever seen is "I graded out perfect" in a game he threw four interceptions, and "I played as well as I could" in this game.

Oh.....wait, I believe him on that second one there, so I'll give him a pass on that one.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-12-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

I think the actual difference was Callahan versus Gruden.

Which is obviously why Dan Reeves handed John Elway's ass to him in Super Bowl XXXIII.

Gruden coached Gannon for what, 4 years? Elway spent a decade under Reeves.

10-12-2010, 08:24 PM
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	How old was Rich Ganon before he was a franchise QB? I keep reading how Cassel is 28 and he is in his sixth season and if he hasn't gotten it by now, he never will. Perhaps we should look at someone who had very similar numbers through his first six seasons. Rich Gannon was drafted in 1987 by the Pats to be a defensive back. When he bristled at the idea, he was traded to Minnesota. In 1990, Gannon started 12 games. The Vikings had a 11-5 record, and the coaches went with Sean Salisbury. He played a lot over the years 1990-1992. He played in at least 12 games in each of those years, and never had more than 2278 yards. his passer rating was never more than 81.5. in 1990, he had 16 td's and 16 Int's. In 1991, he had 12 td's and 6 int's. in 1992, he had 12 Td's and 13 Int's. 1992 was his sixth season. In 1993, he was picked up by the Redskins. He had three td's and seven interceptions. He played in only seven games. This was his seventh season. His eighth season didn't come until 1995 because he was out of football in 1994. He had rotator cuff surgery in 1993, but no one was knocking down his door to get him under contract. In 1995, Gannon worked out for the Chiefs and signed with the team as the BACKUP to Bono. He was a team player. A guy that would be the backup and not complain. A hard worker. The kind of player that coaches like. He saw action in four games in 1996. He finally started to 'get it'. This was his 9th season. But, the Chiefs didn't have any faith in him and still went out and got Grbac. I believe Gannon signed a two year extension in 1996 because no one wanted him to be a starter. Over the course of 1997 and 1998, he started a total of 16 games and played in a total of 21. His passer rating was about 80 over those two years. He threw for 3349 yards in those two seasons combined. This was years 10 and 11. The Raiders rewarded Gannon's mediocre numbers over his 11 seasons in the league with an opportunity to win the starting job. We all know how it turned out. This is a folk hero around these parts.... and yet, through his first 10 seasons, he was not an extremely accurate passer. He didn't throw downfield very well. He struggled to read defenses. And he was athletic. Oh, AND he took a ton of sacks. He was sacked 302 times in 4206 pass attempts. Heck, he wasn't even drafted to be a QB. Through his first six seasons, Gannon had thrown 1003 passes. He had completed 561 passes. He completed 55.9% of his passes. He had 40 TD's and 36 Int's. He averaged 6.4 yards per attempt. He averaged 11.5 yards per completion. He had 81 sacks, or at about 8 percent of his pass attempts. Through Cassel's first six seasons, he has thrown 1154 passes. He has completed 678 of them. He is completing 58.7% of his passes. He has 43 TD's. He has 32 Int's. He has averaged 6.5 yards per attempt. He has averaged 11.09 yards per completion. He has 96 sacks, which is about 8% of his pass attempts. Will Cassel be Gannon? Probably not. But, Gannon wasn't Gannon until his 12th season in the league.... or twice as long as Cassel has been in the league...... That is when Gannon really got it and became a pro bowl QB.
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