McDaniels vs Herm: Who was worse for their team?

[DaFace]

Simple question, but I think the realization of my own take on it was somewhat surprising when I thought of it. Just curious to know how the masses feel.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by sportsshrink

Couldn't agree more

But Herm wasn't really in control anyhow and we all know that Peterson hired Herm because Herm was a "yes man" as Gunther was and Vermeil was Peterson's closest friend who Peterson respected with a track record and allowed to call the shots but Vermeil's mistake was not building the D otherwise we would have been SB champs potentially in 03,04,05.

Peterson didn't realize how insignificant Marty would make him become when he hired Shotty because Shotty called all the shots "player personnel" wise. As long as the Chiefs were winning Peterson would always play 2nd fiddle. It wasn't until Marty's girl friend fiasco and losing at home did him in with Peterson's cloak and dagger firing. Now Peterson finally had control and Carl from that point on would never hire anyone but a "yes man" type of personality IMHO.

Herm was definitely not a "yes man." I think it's pretty well known that in the last 1 or 2 seasons, he was given the keys to the franchise and Carl Peterson became background noise. By the end of Herm's tenure, Herm and Kuharich ran the show, which is a big part of why the Chiefs are successful today.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by Adam

He's a solid pick and a productive starter.

98% of Denver fans and Denver sports media would disagree with you. All I heard on sportstalk radio here in Denver from the talkshow hosts and fans were not about his career day of 160yds he rushed for but how he got caught from behind allllllllllllllllllllllllll game long thus no TDs.

What has Noshow done this season outside of the Chiefs games? Oh yeah hamstring problems I believe it is

He is soft IMO. Always hurt.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It's McDaniels and it's not close.

Herm got us Dorsey, Albert, Flowers, Carr, Charles, Hali, Bowe, Richardson, Demorrio Williams, Studebaker, Ron Edwards, Gilberry, and left behind Wade Smith, Pollard, Page, Tyler, and Thigpen, who, even if they didn't contribute for this team, were talented players (Smith and Pollard), or netted us future draft picks for their value. On top of that, he left behind Patterson, who is now a starting CB on one of the best teams in the NFC.

Who of value has McDaniels brought in for Denver? Brandon Lloyd, Walton, Beadles, and Demaryius Thomas. Moreno looks like an average NFL RB at best. Cutler for Orton and all those picks would have been a boon, but he ****ed all the picks up, and Cutler is playing well for the Bears now.

He and Xanders absolutely eviscerated that roster.

[2112]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's McDaniels and it's not close.

Herm got us Dorsey, Albert, Flowers, Carr, Charles, Hali, Bowe, Richardson, Demorrio Williams, Studebaker, Ron Edwards, Gilberry, and left behind Wade Smith, Pollard, Page, Tyler, and Thigpen, who, even if they didn't contribute for this team, were talented players (Smith and Pollard), or netted us future draft picks for their value. On top of that, he left behind Patterson, who is now a starting CB on one of the best teams in the NFC.

Who of value has McDaniels brought in for Denver? Brandon Lloyd, Walton, Beadles, and Demaryius Thomas. Moreno looks like an average NFL RB at best. Cutler for Orton and all those picks would have been a boon, but he ****ed all the picks up, and Cutler is playing well for the Bears now.

He and Xanders absolutely eviscerated that roster.

You left out Brandon Marshall to the Dolphins for um what?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by D2112

You left out Brandon Marshall to the Dolphins for um what?

That pick became part of the package to get Tebow.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by Adam

He's a solid pick and a productive starter.

Picked way, way too high. Especially when you consider what Peyton Hillis is doing.

[Goldmember]

Originally Posted by DaFace

My guess is that this poll will be a landslide, but I guess I'd just never thought about it until now. Even though we all despise Herm, he came into the team in a really rough position and, though we didn't make much progress, he didn't really "hurt" the team so much as delay its development. We also pulled a handful of decent players out of his tenure, though one could argue we had our fair share of clunkers as well.

McDaniels, on the other hand, came into the team when it was really in pretty decent shape. But in two years, he managed to pretty much dismantle all of the strengths the team had and waste numerous draft picks in the process. It's really pretty impressive when you think about it.

In some ways, it's just oddly comforting to realize that, no matter how bad Herm was, the Broncos had it worse.

I don't despise Herm. In fact, I think all this Herm hate is overblown, kind of like a mob mentality that sheeple follow. He was the easy scapegoat. Do I think he was a good/above avg. coach? No, but there have been MANY much worse coaches in the NFL. At least he got his teams to the playoffs in NY and KC. He did a good job of finding and developing talent, which the Chiefs are benefiting from today.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Herm was definitely not a "yes man." I think it's pretty well known that in the last 1 or 2 seasons, he was given the keys to the franchise and Carl Peterson became background noise. By the end of Herm's tenure, Herm and Kuharich ran the show, which is a big part of why the Chiefs are successful today.

Really?? Did you see the "Chiefs Hard Knocks" HBO series? If not I would ask you to take a close look at all the scenes in which Carl appears and pay close attention to several meetings he had with Herm and notice the body language of both. It is very clear who ran the show(pardon the pun).

[The Bad Guy]

Doesn't shock me that ****ing moron Pants would vote for Herm.

Josh McDaniels traded away the 2 best players on the team, burned draft picks on Alphonso Hodge, Robert Ayers, Tim Tebow.

The Broncos have gotten NOTHING from the first round of the draft the last 2 years.

That team is in awful shape.

Anyone with a football IQ could see that.

Herm sucked, but at least he left some pieces to work with.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by Goldmember

I don't despise Herm. In fact, I think all this Herm hate is overblown, kind of like a mob mentality that sheeple follow. He was the easy scapegoat. Do I think he was a good/above avg. coach? No, but there have been MANY much worse coaches in the NFL. At least he got his teams to the playoffs in NY and KC. He did a good job of finding and developing talent, which the Chiefs are benefiting from today.

Amen brother! Although Herm was backed into the playoffs with the Chiefs.

[Goldmember]

Originally Posted by sportsshrink

Amen brother! Although Herm was backed into the playoffs with the Chiefs.

That's another thing I have an issue with, "backing into the playoffs." It's a 16 game schedule. The Chiefs played those teams on their schedule, as did the rest of the NFL. Nobody "gave" it to them. They were fortunate yes, but what teams don't have good luck and bad luck, a bad/good call here or there that determined a game? 16 games is 16 games, it just happened to be the last day when it was determined.

[Goldmember]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

.

Who of value has McDaniels brought in for Denver? Brandon Lloyd, Walton, Beadles, and Demaryius Thomas. Moreno looks like an average NFL RB at best, except when he plays the Chiefs.

FYP

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's McDaniels and it's not close.

Herm got us Dorsey, Albert, Flowers, Carr, Charles, Hali, Bowe, Richardson, Demorrio Williams, Studebaker, Ron Edwards, Gilberry, and left behind Wade Smith, Pollard, Page, Tyler, and Thigpen, who, even if they didn't contribute for this team, were talented players (Smith and Pollard), or netted us future draft picks for their value. On top of that, he left behind Patterson, who is now a starting CB on one of the best teams in the NFC.

Who of value has McDaniels brought in for Denver? Brandon Lloyd, Walton, Beadles, and Demaryius Thomas. Moreno looks like an average NFL RB at best. Cutler for Orton and all those picks would have been a boon, but he ****ed all the picks up, and Cutler is playing well for the Bears now.

He and Xanders absolutely eviscerated that roster.

Agreed.

How long Cutler will play well is another question. IMO he will find a way to piss on his shoes and it will probably be in the 1st rd of the playoffs. Martz finally figured out that Cutler couldn't read a D if were given to him in book form at the line of scrimmage so Martz has had to drastically simplify the passing game for Cutler.

The only thing I will give McKid credit on is he saw Cutler as the next Jeff George. All the physical tools with a loser attitude who blamed everybody else when the game went bad who was not willing to see his weaknesses and improve on them(become a student of the game). Oh and not to mention Cutler is "not a gamer" PERIOD.

George,Grbac and Cutler-I think they are all cousins

[KC Jones]

Tough call.

I think it's safe to say Herm was a terrible coach and let players get fat and lazy. However we did seem to get some talent through the draft and in free agency under his tenure so the cupboard wasn't bare. Depends how much of that was what Herm brought versus our old scouting department.

I actually think McDaniels is a much much better coach, and when/if he gets another chance he'll be a good coach. He should have never had so much pull in personnel though.

We're probably better off after Herm than they are after McDaniels, but I'm not sure that's because of Herm necessarily and not sure that McDaniels w/ a strong GM would have left the cupboard so bare.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by Goldmember

That's another thing I have an issue with, "backing into the playoffs." It's a 16 game schedule. The Chiefs played those teams on their schedule, as did the rest of the NFL. Nobody "gave" it to them. They were fortunate yes, but what teams don't have good luck and bad luck, a bad/good call here or there that determined a game? 16 games is 16 games, it just happened to be the last day when it was determined.

"Fortunate" you don't want to have to depend on that term at the end of the yr. If you do then that means more often than not you will not go far into the playoffs. I get your point but Herm had that team going in the wrong direction by the end of that season.