"Official" 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

This is so unreal. We were dead. No hope. A season over. Somehow, someway we find some team chemistry and squeak into the playoffs on the last day of the season.

Only to find us facing one of the best pitching staffs assembled in years with home field advantage. We somehow, someway find a way to beat the best pitcher in baseball on the road in an elimination game.

We have to go on the road and beat the team with the best home record in baseball. A team who mortgaged their future to make this run .We somehow, someway find a way to beat them on the road and make our 18th World series trip.

We take game 1, we give away game 2 and home field advantage. Albert goes off for probably the best performance in World Series history and we take game 3 easily. Games 4 & 5 our bats fall asleep, Phone gate happens and its not looking too good.

Game 6, one of the best baseball games of all time and it takes place in a season ending go home game. Cardinals are down 2 runs in their final chance on the season, twice. They are down to their final strike of the season, twice. They give up a 2 run homer in extra innings. In the bottom of the inning their final 3 batters are a combined 3-26 in the Playoffs and a pitcher because the bench is empty. Somehow, someway they get some runners on and the comeback player of the year drives in the tying run. Mr. Freese hits the walk off home run. We will see you tommorrow night.

Game 7, With our bulldog on the mound pitching on 3 days rest he is able to give us 6 good innings and get us to within 9 outs of our 11 World series title. Texas meltsdown, probably left over from last nights game and its over.

The underdog, come back team who had no business even being in the playoffs wins a World championship. They make movies about events like this in life. Events that you remember even if your not a fan of the sport or team for the rest of your life.

When it is your team.......Priceless


.

[seclark]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

For sure. I've loved the birds through fat and lean. I still have a fondness for Pedro Guerrero FFS. AP or no the birds on the bat is what counts to me.

yep...bottom line is i want a competitive team.
sure it was fun to watch mcgwire hit home runs in 1998, but the fact was the team finished something like 19 games out.
sec

[Swanman]

I hope Dewitt and Co. didn't lowball Albert with a 19 mil/per contract offer. I hate that baseball players are so overpaid at the top level, but you have to be reasonable and at least put him near the top.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by Swanman

I hope Dewitt and Co. didn't lowball Albert with a 19 mil/per contract offer. I hate that baseball players are so overpaid at the top level, but you have to be reasonable and at least put him near the top.

AP said this morning he wants to be a Cardinal for the rest of his career, we'll see if that includes a discount.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Offering the undisputed best player in the game an annual salary that isn't in the top 5 of the game is so ****ing ludicrously stupid it's beyond the scope of human imagination. Who in the Cardinals organization could possibly think this is a good idea? Who?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Lance Berkman was always a fat bastard. That's a horrible comp. Besides, Pujols has a very quiet and efficient swing, and he's a line drive hitter in a neutral park. Berkman relied on a short opp field porch and a soft power alley in a band box.

Berkman was also two inches shorter while carrying the same weight.

Pujols' body type is more similar to David Ortiz, but he's a much more complete hitter who doesn't have to cheat to pull everything, and he doesn't have the chronic knee trouble that Ortiz does.

The only lower body problem Pujols has had is plantar fasciitis.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by seclark

again, i think he'll remain a cardinal. if not, i'll still be a cardinal fan. i've been following them since the early 60's. can't get it out of my blood now.
sec

Same here. I was a Cardinal fan long before Pujols was born and will be long after he's done playing. but, I've "fan" bonded with Pujols more than anyone since I've was rooting for Gibson and Brock. I'd be heartbroken to see him wearing the uniform of another team, especially the baby bear one.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

AP said this morning he wants to be a Cardinal for the rest of his career, we'll see if that includes a discount.

yeah, he's said that a lot. we will see if he is a man of his word. $80 million is a lot of discount to give up to reach Stan the man love that lasts decades. But, its there for him to claim. think of it....Stan the man hasn't played for 46 years but he's still as revered as ever, my son got real excited when Stan the man was at the ball park. Pujols can be the 2000's Stan the man if he signs up for the lifetime contract and in what is widely considered the best baseball town in America.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Offering the undisputed best player in the game an annual salary that isn't in the top 5 of the game is so ****ing ludicrously stupid it's beyond the scope of human imagination. Who in the Cardinals organization could possibly think this is a good idea? Who?

If true, that is pathetic. A fireable offense. I just hope it doesn't poison the well or turn Pujols on the FO.

[Hammock Parties]

[BigRedChief]

damn clayton that is some funny chit.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Lance Berkman was always a fat bastard. That's a horrible comp. Besides, Pujols has a very quiet and efficient swing, and he's a line drive hitter in a neutral park. Berkman relied on a short opp field porch and a soft power alley in a band box.

Berkman was also two inches shorter while carrying the same weight.

Pujols' body type is more similar to David Ortiz, but he's a much more complete hitter who doesn't have to cheat to pull everything, and he doesn't have the chronic knee trouble that Ortiz does.

The only lower body problem Pujols has had is plantar fasciitis.

And the only knee problem Drew ever had was the same. Plantar fasciatis is some nasty stuff now, don't simply discount it. And while that may be the only lower body injury he's had, every year he ends up nursing a hamstring or calf or something. He simply has a very heavy lower body and over 160 games, it betrays him a bit. You can whistle past the graveyard if you'd like, but Pujols absolutely has a history of lingering lower body soreness.

And I'm not sure where this "Berkman is a fatass" narrative has come from:

2010 Berkman



2008 Berkman



Young Berkman



Berkman's not a fat guy, not at all. I just don't see how anyone can be aghast by the comparison. Pujols and Berkman have similar body types in that they have a very heavy lower half. Berkman is a little heavier up top, but he's certainly not Prince Fielder. In fact, I think Ortiz has a much worse makeup than Berkman.

And to discount Berkman as just an Enron creation is blatant homerism from Cardinals fans that watched him kill us out there. To say he was some loft hitter that poked flyballs over the fence is unadulterated garbage. He was absolutely a line-drive hitter and one of the best pure hitters in the game during that time.

His line drive % from 2002 - 2008: 21.0, 20.8, 21.2, 22.9, 19.2, 17.9, 18.5
Alberts Ln Dr % from 2002 - 2008: 21.9, 22.5, 17.0, 20.0, 18.0, 18.6, 22.4

And remember, those years for AP were all his prime hitting years whereas the last 3 for Berkman are in his decline seasons. Albert's a slightly better LD hitter for the most part, but he's certainly not a runaway winner. Don't just throw out nonsense like "Pujols was a LD hitter and Berkman just hit it at short fences" without doing at least a little legwork.

Further, during Berkman's prime, he had reverse home/away splits on several occasions. In fact, from 2001 to 2008 (prime seasons), he had 4 seasons where his splits favored the home park and 4 where they favored his road numbers. He could handle any pitch you threw him during that time as well. Don't diminish Berkman's talent just because he killed us - he was a phenomenal hitter during his peak.

And it's completely fair to look at his decline and wonder if Pujols will follow a similar path.

[Rams Fan]

BTW, Jimmy Ballgame retired.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Offering the undisputed best player in the game an annual salary that isn't in the top 5 of the game is so ****ing ludicrously stupid it's beyond the scope of human imagination. Who in the Cardinals organization could possibly think this is a good idea? Who?

It's a hell of a lot better idea than offering a guy that is going to be 32 when the contract starts $300 million.

It's rumored to be the 3rd highest valued package ever offered and contain an equity stake in ownership of the team after he retires. Yeah, what an asswipe offer that is.

Oh, and that was also based on a 10 year deal. The rumor was that the first package offered was something like 10 yrs, $225 million (hence him not being that high in the AAV). From there, the Cards tried to dial it down to 8 yrs, $200, etc...

The man is not 27 years old. He's a 32 year old first baseman with heavy legs. If you want to make a PR argument, fine, that's one I'll listen to. But there's absolutely no baseball argument to be made that Albert Pujols should get the highest AAV in the game for the next damn decade. It's just a stupendously stupid baseball decision at that point.

We made the playoffs 1 time in the last 4 years with Albert at 1b. Something tells me we can manage that without him.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

DJ,

I like you, but I'm having a really hard time keeping track of where you stand on the Pujols saga given that you wanted to get rid of him, then thought that given Mozeliak's incompetence we should keep him and pay him what it takes, and now are fine with letting him go again.

It's a Hootiean display of flip flopping.

Everyone knows that you will be overpaying Pujols in the last 5 years of the contract. That's not the issue here. The issue is that the man has earned that money relative to his performance on the field and the compensation of his peers, of whom he really has none.

We've banked a remarkable surplus in value over the last several seasons, and while I can understand holding onto that in some situations, for iconic players, they deserve to get that back.

8/$200 is a ridiculous offer. Look, the market has been set. If Rodriguez is worth 10/275, even with a Yankees tax, then Pujols is worth 10/300.

You seemed to have no problem with giving him 30 MM per year when you responded to my earlier post about payroll dispersion in lieu of the expiring Carpenter and Berkman contracts. What gives?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

FWIW,

The reason why I brought up Ortiz is that he actually has a worse makeup and he still remains a viable hitter with numerous injuries (wrist and knee) and other limitations.