Great question asked on Arrowhead Pride:

[cdcox]

The interesting thing about this question is how closely Haley's fate is tied to Cassel. They both came to KC at the same time. If Cassel were to become one of the best game managers in the business, we could become a consistent contender and maybe win a SB or two and Haley will be able to stay as long as he wants. If Cassel tanks to the point Pioli finally gives up on him, it seems unlikely that Haley could stick around long enough to develop and win with a new QB. Winning quickly with Stanzi or some free agent/trade veteran QB are the only options for Haley keeping his job if Cassel tanks. Geez, no wonder Haley always seems so high strung.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Originally Posted by cdcox

The interesting thing about this question is how closely Haley's fate is tied to Cassel. They both came to KC at the same time. If Cassel were to become one of the best game managers in the business, we could become a consistent contender and maybe win a SB or two and Haley will be able to stay as long as he wants. If Cassel tanks to the point Pioli finally gives up on him, it seems unlikely that Haley could stick around long enough to develop and win with a new QB. Winning quickly with Stanzi or some free agent/trade veteran QB are the only options for Haley keeping his job if Cassel tanks. Geez, no wonder Haley always seems so high strung.

Game managers don't win Super Bowls. I share the same opinion as Steve Young and that is the only coaches jobs that are safe in the NFL are the ones that have franchise QBs. I have thought that from the moment that I came to the conclusion that Cassel isn't a franchise QB that he would get Haley fired. A franchise QB and a well rounded team with talent around him makes the coaches job much easier. It's not that I don't like Haley it's just unfortunate for him that Cassel isn't going to cut it.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Thunder

Game managers don't win Super Bowls.

Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are on line 1 for you

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Originally Posted by beer me

Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are on line 1 for you

Can you name any recently? Exactly. And those teams had monster defenses. Don't kid yourself. They were the exception not the rule.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Thunder

Can you name any recently? Exactly. And those teams had monster defenses. Don't kid yourself. They were the exception not the rule.

All I was saying is it's happened. Is it best to have a dominant QB? Of course. I have no doubt a game manager will win it again sometime.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Originally Posted by beer me

All I was saying is it's happened. Is it best to have a dominant QB? Of course. I have no doubt a game manager will win it again sometime.

I wouldn't bet on it happening anytime soon or ever again. But us teams without franchise QBs have to have something to hold on to so we throw out the Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer cripple argument.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Thunder

I wouldn't bet on it happening anytime soon or ever again. But us teams without franchise QBs have to have something to hold on to so we throw out the Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer cripple argument.

OK man. Obviously it takes more than a game manager to win a SB. A dominant defense is a given. It's happened before and I have no doubt it will likely happen again. I never said Cassel/Chiefs/our defense would do it... but I wouldn't speak in absolutes and say it won't happen again soon or ever again.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Thunder

Can you name any recently? Exactly. And those teams had monster defenses. Don't kid yourself. They were the exception not the rule.

This is why I came here.
After going to the Coalition first and posting the numbers showing
what an anomaly Baltimore and Tampa Bay were it fell on deaf ears there.
Game managers are once in a blue moon.
Franchise qb's make you a SB contender every year.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Originally Posted by RippedmyFlesh

This is why I came here.
After going to the Coalition first and posting the numbers showing
what an anomaly Baltimore and Tampa Bay were it fell on deaf ears there.
Game managers are once in a blue moon.
Franchise qb's make you a SB contender every year.

Welcome man!

[RippedmyFlesh]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Thunder

Welcome man!

I grew up on smash mouth football.
I went to some of Larry Csonka's college games as a kid but you have to do what wins today.
And a franchise qb is number one priority.

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Thunder

Game managers don't win Super Bowls. I share the same opinion as Steve Young and that is the only coaches jobs that are safe in the NFL are the ones that have franchise QBs. I have thought that from the moment that I came to the conclusion that Cassel isn't a franchise QB that he would get Haley fired. A franchise QB and a well rounded team with talent around him makes the coaches job much easier. It's not that I don't like Haley it's just unfortunate for him that Cassel isn't going to cut it.

Bart Starr, Len Dawson, Bob Giese, Troy Aikman and early Tom Brady are examples of elite game managers that I would call franchise QBs. I don't expect Cassel to reach this level, but that would be his high end. The biggest problem is accuracy, coolness in the pocket, and decision making. Trent Green and Rich Gannon are the only two that I can think of that figured it out at age 29 or later.

But I agree that Cassel will probably sooner or later be Haley's downfall, which is a shame because 1) he didn't pick him and 2) I have a feeling that overall Haley is a pretty good coach.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Originally Posted by cdcox

Bart Starr, Len Dawson, Bob Giese, Troy Aikman and early Tom Brady are examples of elite game managers that I would call franchise QBs. I don't expect Cassel to reach this level, but that would be his high end. The biggest problem is accuracy, coolness in the pocket, and decision making. Trent Green and Rich Gannon are the only two that I can think of that figured it out at age 29 or later.

But I agree that Cassel will probably sooner or later be Haley's downfall, which is a shame because 1) he didn't pick him and 2) I have a feeling that overall Haley is a pretty good coach.

Are all franchise qb's.
I don't penalize a qb because he had a good running team.
Aikman on a more qb friendly offense would have had sick numbers.


To me it's simple.

Franchise qb
Can we win a sb with this guy? F ya and we prob will.

Game manager same question.
If our defense plays well and we get the running game going....blah blah blah.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Thunder

Game managers don't win Super Bowls. I share the same opinion as Steve Young and that is the only coaches jobs that are safe in the NFL are the ones that have franchise QBs. I have thought that from the moment that I came to the conclusion that Cassel isn't a franchise QB that he would get Haley fired. A franchise QB and a well rounded team with talent around him makes the coaches job much easier. It's not that I don't like Haley it's just unfortunate for him that Cassel isn't going to cut it.

truthiness



i hope/wish Haley hangs around long enough to groom his own QB..I'd like to see that

[RippedmyFlesh]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

truthiness



i hope/wish Haley hangs around long enough to groom his own QB..I'd like to see that

Agree I think any coach deserves at least 1 shot to develop their own qb.
Usually it happens right away in our case it may be down the road.
That's why the first move of most new coaches is to pick a qb early.

[Rooster]

I think he has to show that he can win within the division more consistantly. That is a concern IMO.