Chiefs Starting to think the Chiefs will need to trade down... or... - Page 9

Direckshun · 01-10-2012, 12:00 AM

Normally I do not advocate this stuff, because I am usually not a fan of trading down in the first round. But I've been looking over the talent in this upcoming draft and I think this might need to be the case.

First, let's take a look at the elite talent that has no chance of making it out of the first round:

QB Andrew Luck, Stanford
QB Robert Griffin, Baylor
WR Justin Blackmon, Oklahoma State
OT Matt Kalil, USC
CB Morris Claiborne, LSU

The remaining top tier talent doesn't really match up value with what we want, with one major exception.

RB Trent Richardson, Alabama
WR Alshon Jeffrey, South Carolina
OT Jonathan Martin, Stanford
OT Riley Reiff, Iowa
OG David DeCastro, Stanford
DT Devin Still, Penn State
DE Quentin Coples, North Carolina
ILB Luke Kuechly, Boston College
CB Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama
CB Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama

Scott Pioli is a legit believer in draft value, though he has broken with it before when he drafted Eric Berry. I don't think he breaks it two out of three years however, so players like Richardson, DeCastro, and Kuechly don't really seem to warrant a Top 12 pick.

It also seems to eliminate right tackle. It's been two years of Pioli passing over right tackle after right tackle, even with last year's great prospects like Carimi and Castonzo. So I think that takes Martin (who honestly isn't right tackle material to me) and Reiff out of the equation.

Meanwhile, we can eliminate the players that don't fit our defense (Still, Coples).

That leaves us with the corners. You can take Jenkins out of consideration since there is no way Pioli wants a guy with his character questions.

Kirkpatrick is a perfect fit for this team ONLY IF this team lets Brandon Carr walk. If Carr stays on the roster, we really have no need for Kirkpatrick, either.

That leaves me to believe the Chiefs will almost certainly try to trade down until they get a tackle or one of the lesser valued positions (ILB, RB, NT) at a much better value.

**Reaper16** · 01-11-2012, 10:58 AM

As far as the OP goes, you underestimate how much Dre Kirkpatrick is an insane man who doesn't really play a very good CB. He gets by on his incredible athleticism but finds himself out of position a lot.

Titty Meat · 01-11-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

As far as the OP goes, you underestimate how much Dre Kirkpatrick is an insane man who doesn't really play a very good CB. He gets by on his incredible athleticism but finds himself out of position a lot.

Kareem Jackson says hey.

GordonGekko · 01-11-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Trent Richardson is a curtain - it all looks good up front but what's behind him still STINKS.

If you like going 10-6 and losing in the playoffs every year, by all means, draft him.

I'd prefer to see a Super Bowl in my lifetime.

Shit, I'd take 10-6 every year, and you know making the playoffs that many times in a row you'd luck the fuck out eventually and win the SB. It is a numbers game *moneyball.

ToxSocks · 01-11-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

because Superbowls are won by great QBs, not serviceable QBs....

I can't even believe I'm reading this from a Chiefs fan...is this Carl?

Yeah. But this is about drafting a RB, not about whether or not we're drafting a QB.

QB is the obvious answer.

But passing up one of the best talents in the draft because our QB isn't there is not how you build a talented team.

talastan · 01-11-2012, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setsuna

I think Chiefs have the swag necessary to win a SB without an elite QB. You need to recognize and not be reeruned.

**the Talking Can** · 01-11-2012, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Yeah. But this is about drafting a RB, not about whether or not we're drafting a QB.

QB is the obvious answer.

But passing up one of the best talents in the draft because our QB isn't there is not how you build a talented team.

i was responding to his post...the claim you win a superbowl with a jagoff QB and a bunch of great RBs is demonstrably false...

and we already have an Elite RB...not sure why people claim we need one...do we need two? in my opinion, no...

ToxSocks · 01-11-2012, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

i was responding to his post...the claim you win a superbowl with a jagoff QB and a bunch of great RBs is demonstrably false...

and we already have an Elite RB...not sure why people claim we need one...do we need two? in my opinion, no...

Because there is a ton of uncertainty surrounding our elite back. He's not built to handle 350+ carries. Doing so will drive JC into the ground.

That's even if his surgically repaired knee survives his first season back.

I guess i'm one of the few people who doesn't want to hinge our running game on a bum knee and Jackie Battle.

Fansy the Famous Bard · 01-11-2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Yeah. But this is about drafting a RB, not about whether or not we're drafting a QB.

QB is the obvious answer.

But passing up one of the best talents in the draft because our QB isn't there is not how you build a talented team.

No it's about failing hard now so that we have as many chances to draft that franchise qb as it takes in the future.

Personally, I don't like the idea of taking a RB that high in the draft. Though, if he's the best player there at #11, you take him. Or try to trade out and get more picks. But throwing your hands up and complaining furiously about drafting someone with talent because it keeps us from getting a QB in the future is ridiculous.

**MahiMike** · 01-11-2012, 11:35 AM

I've been seeing Richardson as high as top 5 in a lot of mocks. He didn't necessarily impress me as much as I'd hoped in BCS championship game.

Decastro is versatile at either guard spot or RT. Take the boring pick and move on.

**Reaper16** · 01-11-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahiMike

I've been seeing Richardson as high as top 5 in a lot of mocks. He didn't necessarily impress me as much as I'd hoped in BCS championship game.

He got 96 yards and a TD against the 2nd best defense in the country, a defense who were treating the box like it was a clown car on account of how many guys were stacked in it. How was that not impressive?

Setsuna · 01-11-2012, 11:39 AM

Alright you fools. So we won't get an elite QB, bank on that you spaztastic idiots. Let's get an OL 11th overall, and watch him battle injuries like Okung and that dude on the Skins. Wasted pick. Oh and what team lately has won without an elite two RB tandem? If no draft day moves and Richardson is there, you get him or suffer under .500 seasons forever.

saphojunkie · 01-11-2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Kind of tired of seeing people spout this over and over again. Yes, Good backs can be found in later rounds.

ELITE backs...not so much.

Trent Richardson is an Elite back.

He is an Elite talent and the Chiefs would be reeruned not to pick him there. The guy is instant offense, similar to the way Berry was instant Defense.

If Orton is re-signed, having a tandem of backs like JC and Richardson would allow a guy like Orton (who uses the Play Action very effectivly) to open up the passing game.

This whole theory that taking an elite back will set this franchise back is full of holes.

What if Cassel or Orton goes down and Stanzi/Rookie Qb have to start? Having a pair of backs like that will make their job a Lot easier.

Your top 10 running backs for this year:

1. Maurice Jones-Drew - 2nd Round
2. Arian Foster - undrafted
3. Fred Jackson - undrafted, invited to training camp after 2 years in a semi-pro league
4. Darren McFadden - 1st round (injured on IR)
5. LeSean McCoy - 2nd round
6. Ray Rice - 2nd round
7. Michael Turner - 5th round
8. Matt Forte - 2nd round
9. Adrian Peterson - 1st round (injured on IR)
10. Marshawn Lynch - 1st round

Others of note:

Jamaal Charles - 3rd round
Frank Gore - 3rd round
Demarco Murray - 3rd round
Priest Holmes - undrafted
Terrel Davis - 6th round
Legarette Blount - undrafted

Your theory makes no sense, especially considering the fact that WE CURRENTLY HAVE AN ELITE RB ON OUR ROSTER DRAFTED IN THE 3RD ROUND.

if anything, there is zero doubt that the type of RB we need is the exact kind you can draft in later rounds.

ToxSocks · 01-11-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Your top 10 running backs for this year:

1. Maurice Jones-Drew - 2nd Round
2. Arian Foster - undrafted
3. Fred Jackson - undrafted, invited to training camp after 2 years in a semi-pro league
4. Darren McFadden - 1st round (injured on IR)
5. LeSean McCoy - 2nd round
6. Ray Rice - 2nd round
7. Michael Turner - 5th round
8. Matt Forte - 2nd round
9. Adrian Peterson - 1st round (injured on IR)
10. Marshawn Lynch - 1st round

Others of note:

Jamaal Charles - 3rd round
Frank Gore - 3rd round
Demarco Murray - 3rd round
Priest Holmes - undrafted
Terrel Davis - 6th round
Legarette Blount - undrafted

Your theory makes no sense, especially considering the fact that WE CURRENTLY HAVE AN ELITE RB ON OUR ROSTER DRAFTED IN THE 3RD ROUND.

if anything, there is zero doubt that the type of RB we need is the exact kind you can draft in later rounds.

Ok. So 7 of your top 10 backs were taken in the first two rounds. Not rounds 4-7.

Got it. Thanks.

Oh, and our Elite RB, is coming off of an ACL surgery and has never been a workhorse. If you want to be unbiased, then present all the facts.

**the Talking Can** · 01-11-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setsuna

Alright you fools. So we won't get an elite QB, bank on that you spaztastic idiots. Let's get an OL 11th overall, and watch him battle injuries like Okung and that dude on the Skins. Wasted pick. Oh and what team lately has won without an elite two RB tandem? If no draft day moves and Richardson is there, you get him or suffer under .500 seasons forever.

we already have an elite RB you moron

and no superbowl team in memory has had 2 'elite' backs...

Frosty · 01-11-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Ok. So 7 of your top 10 backs were taken in the first two rounds. Not rounds 4-7.

Got it. Thanks.

Blount was widely regarded as a 1st round pick until the punching incident.

01-10-2012, 12:00 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2103447	Starting to think the Chiefs will need to trade down... or... Normally I do not advocate this stuff, because I am usually not a fan of trading down in the first round. But I've been looking over the talent in this upcoming draft and I think this might need to be the case. First, let's take a look at the elite talent that has no chance of making it out of the first round: QB Andrew Luck, Stanford QB Robert Griffin, Baylor WR Justin Blackmon, Oklahoma State OT Matt Kalil, USC CB Morris Claiborne, LSU The remaining top tier talent doesn't really match up value with what we want, with one major exception. RB Trent Richardson, Alabama WR Alshon Jeffrey, South Carolina OT Jonathan Martin, Stanford OT Riley Reiff, Iowa OG David DeCastro, Stanford DT Devin Still, Penn State DE Quentin Coples, North Carolina ILB Luke Kuechly, Boston College CB Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama CB Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama Scott Pioli is a legit believer in draft value, though he has broken with it before when he drafted Eric Berry. I don't think he breaks it two out of three years however, so players like Richardson, DeCastro, and Kuechly don't really seem to warrant a Top 12 pick. It also seems to eliminate right tackle. It's been two years of Pioli passing over right tackle after right tackle, even with last year's great prospects like Carimi and Castonzo. So I think that takes Martin (who honestly isn't right tackle material to me) and Reiff out of the equation. Meanwhile, we can eliminate the players that don't fit our defense (Still, Coples). That leaves us with the corners. You can take Jenkins out of consideration since there is no way Pioli wants a guy with his character questions. Kirkpatrick is a perfect fit for this team ONLY IF this team lets Brandon Carr walk. If Carr stays on the roster, we really have no need for Kirkpatrick, either. That leaves me to believe the Chiefs will almost certainly try to trade down until they get a tackle or one of the lesser valued positions (ILB, RB, NT) at a much better value.
Posts: 59,690

01-11-2012, 11:35 AM	#129
MahiMike He's Mahomie! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Jax, FL Casino cash: $10023443	I've been seeing Richardson as high as top 5 in a lot of mocks. He didn't necessarily impress me as much as I'd hoped in BCS championship game. Decastro is versatile at either guard spot or RT. Take the boring pick and move on. __________________ 99.9%
Posts: 17,387

01-11-2012, 11:39 AM	#131
Setsuna Paladin Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Gator Country Casino cash: $10008487	Alright you fools. So we won't get an elite QB, bank on that you spaztastic idiots. Let's get an OL 11th overall, and watch him battle injuries like Okung and that dude on the Skins. Wasted pick. Oh and what team lately has won without an elite two RB tandem? If no draft day moves and Richardson is there, you get him or suffer under .500 seasons forever.
Posts: 13,215