Chiefs Whitlock thinks RG3's speed is a curse - Page 3

Hammock Parties · 03-01-2012, 04:46 AM

Excellent article.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/R...nalysis-022712

Quote:

My professors at Ball State warned me that my good looks, perfectly sculpted body and high intellect might impede my career as a journalist. They feared my seemingly endless physical and intellectual gifts would prevent me from developing a singular focus.

I have similar fears when assessing Robert Griffin III’s NFL prospects. Abundant talent can be a curse.

The biggest news of the NFL Combine was RG3’s blazing 40-yard dash time. He covered 40 yards like a shutdown corner, clocking a 4.41. The instant-Twitter analysis of NFL experts was that Griffin’s show of speed increased the value of the Rams’ pick, the one right after the pick the Colts are expected to use on Stanford QB Andrew Luck.

In my opinion, Griffin’s speed doesn’t enhance his draft stock. It damages it.

I am not a Robert Griffin hater. I love RG3. In all likelihood, he will be my favorite NFL player next season. He could quickly become my favorite active athlete, ahead of Tiger Woods, Ray Lewis and Jeff George (has yet to file his retirement paperwork).

But I’m worried about Griffin. He’s blessed with too many tools. Oftentimes, the greatest athletes are physically limited, which strengthens their focus. Bill Russell could never match Wilt Chamberlain’s size and limitless athleticism. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson weren’t the greatest leapers or the quickest on their feet.

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are relatively immobile. They play from the pocket because they have no choice. They mastered the art of playing from the pocket because they had no other choice.

NFL games are won most consistently by quarterbacks who play from the pocket. If a quarterback leaves the pocket, he’s going to get hit. If a quarterback gets hit regularly, he’s going to get hurt. If a franchise quarterback gets injured, his team has little chance of winning the Super Bowl.

NFL teams are looking for the next Manning or Brady. Or the next Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger. A little mobility is good, especially if the quarterback moves in the pocket in an effort to throw downfield. Rodgers and Big Ben are terrific at moving to throw. Is that how Griffin will use his athleticism?

Or does Griffin have so much speed that he’ll channel Michael Vick?

Vick had too much talent early in his career. The game was too easy. The temptation to fix problems with his feet was too great for him to master QB play from the pocket. He’s just now attempting to play the game from the pocket. Even now, he gives in to his blazing speed and exits the pocket prematurely.

OK, we know RG3 is vastly different from the young Michael Vick. But it took Donovan McNabb a few years to commit to pocket play. Steve Young had to sit behind Joe Montana in San Francisco to learn to fully appreciate the pocket.

NFL fans are going to want to see Griffin run. When you’re faster than everyone on the field, it makes sense to run. Griffin is going to be fighting common sense and his natural instincts.

And what if he gets paired with the wrong head coach, a coach who is looking for a quick-fix rather than Griffin’s long-term success?

There is talk that the Redskins might want to move up in the draft to get RG3. Mike Shanahan is under pressure in Washington. He needs to win right away to ease the public pressure and prevent Daniel Snyder from firing him. Shanahan could play Griffin as a rookie and allow him to run because his legs might produce eight or nine victories quicker than his arm.

All coaches prefer to win now. It’s the only way to guarantee another season. Is there a proven, confident coach in a stable organization willing to properly support Griffin’s development?

Environment and fit are the keys to Griffin’s success. That’s why Luck is the better prospect. Luck is extremely gifted, but he won’t be tempted to outrun James Harrison or Terrell Suggs. The only way for Luck to consistently avoid big hits will be with quick reads and a quicker release. He’ll be forced to play QB the “right” way.

That is not to say Luck will be a better NFL quarterback than Griffin. My money is on Griffin being the second coming of Steve Young. But I’m just a fan. It won’t be my job to teach him to shy away from his God-given talent.

**Baby Lee** · 03-01-2012, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Steve Young had to sit behind Joe Montana in San Francisco to learn to fully appreciate the pocket.

Yeah, Young sat behind Montana because of his deficiencies, not because Montana was the BEST EFFING QB EVER.

RippedmyFlesh · 03-01-2012, 08:53 AM

I agree with TheGuardian pocket passers= SB's.
But to me RG3 is the exception.
He has a pocket passer's arm which usually with a mobile qb is not the case.
If he got injured and lost mobility but somehow it didn't affect his passing I would still build around him.

tk13 · 03-01-2012, 08:59 AM

I agree with some of this... and I've said as much. Not that it would necessarily keep me from drafting the guy. Yeah Luck is mobile too but he is not anywhere near Griffin's universe. Few people are... Griffin is a once in a decade talent. But nobody has ever won with a scrambling QB. He will have to become an elite passer as well to win. Remember when Young won he set a record for Super Bowl passing TDs and was one of the best passing QBs in the league. My other concern is Griffin is not a big tank like Newton or Tebow... so he's probably a bigger injury risk. But I think he's a better passer than Vick or Vince Young... his potential is off the charts.
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Reerun_KC · 03-01-2012, 09:18 AM

all buffets thinks Racist Whitlock is a curse...

-King- · 03-01-2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Yeah, Young sat behind Montana because of his deficiencies, not because Montana was the BEST EFFING QB EVER.

That's not what he meant...
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TheGuardian · 03-01-2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WV

This....thanks for posting it I was going to look for the same stat. I don't get where all these morons keep calling RG3 a running QB. You do not obtain his accuracy by throwing on the run all the time. The pigeon holing of the athletic black QB continues.

Pull your head out of your ass.

There is no pigeon holing here, the same thing was said of Tebow. And it turned out to be true.

RGIII is not a pocket passer. If the Chiefs are going to draft a QB to build around as a franchise QB, it needs to be the kinds that you know, win super bowls? And those are pocket passers.

RGIII is a running QB. You don't rush for 846, 635, and 700 yards if you're a pocket passer.

You wanna know how many yards Vick ran for in his two years at VT?

585 and 617.

You wanna know how many yards Luck rushed for at Stanford?

354
453
150

What about Tebow?

910
673
895
469 (freshman year)

RGIII is a running QB. The odds that he will lead a team to a SB are slim and none.

But this board has gone ****ing crazy because like I said, half the people here wanted to draft Clausen last year, when it was clear to sane people he sucked.

Drafting a QB just for the sake of it is ****ing stupid beyond comprehension.

Chiefnj2 · 03-01-2012, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Pull your head out of your ass.

There is no pigeon holing here, the same thing was said of Tebow. And it turned out to be true.

RGIII is not a pocket passer. If the Chiefs are going to draft a QB to build around as a franchise QB, it needs to be the kinds that you know, win super bowls? And those are pocket passers.

RGIII is a running QB. You don't rush for 846, 635, and 700 yards if you're a pocket passer.

You wanna know how many yards Vick ran for in his two years at VT?

585 and 617.

You wanna know how many yards Luck rushed for at Stanford?

354
453
150

What about Tebow?

910
673
895
469 (freshman year)

RGIII is a running QB. The odds that he will lead a team to a SB are slim and none.

But this board has gone ****ing crazy because like I said, half the people here wanted to draft Clausen last year, when it was clear to sane people he sucked.

Drafting a QB just for the sake of it is ****ing stupid beyond comprehension.

How are you a "running QB" when you have the same number of pass attempts as the "passing/pocket QB" and more passing yardage than the passing QB?

TheGuardian · 03-01-2012, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

How are you a "running QB" when you have the same number of pass attempts as the "passing/pocket QB" and more passing yardage than the passing QB?

Being in a spread offense.

That's really another knock against him as well. That spread offense has produced lots of guys that don't transition well into pro style offenses.

Again, this board just wants to draft ANY QB......JUST BECAUSE.

Coogs · 03-01-2012, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

They aren't concerned with Wrights "4.6" speed when there is game tape out there of him burning 4.4 CB's like Quandre Diggs from Texas.

I knew that, I was just funnin' with ya!

It does make you wonder a little bit though if the threat of the run from RGIII caused safeties and corners to play a little more cautious.

**DaKCMan AP** · 03-01-2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

RGIII is a running QB. You don't rush for 846, 635, and 700 yards if you're a pocket passer.

You wanna know how many yards Vick ran for in his two years at VT?

585 and 617.

What about Tebow?

910
673
895
469 (freshman year)

Nice job at abusing statistics to agree with your horribly flawed analysis.

You know how many yards Vick threw for in college? 3,279. Total. In two years.

Griffin threw for 4,293 last year alone. 3,501 the year before.

Tebow threw for 3,286 yards in his sophomore, Heisman winning season. He didn't eclipse 3,000 yards in any other of his 4 seasons at Florida.

Vick ran the ball 40% of the time, passing 60%.
Tebow ran the ball 39% of the time, passing 61% (in his 3yrs as a starter).
Griffin III ran the ball 28% of the time, passing 72% (over past 2 seasons).

Hell, Cam Newton was nearly 50/50. At Auburn he had 280 pass attempts and 264 rush attempts. He only threw for 4,000 yard with a 60% completion percentage in his rookie NFL season.

Chiefnj2 · 03-01-2012, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Being in a spread offense.

That's really another knock against him as well. That spread offense has produced lots of guys that don't transition well into pro style offenses.

Again, this board just wants to draft ANY QB......JUST BECAUSE.

Griffin is not in the same boat as the guys you are comparing him to. You compare him to Vick whose greatest # of pass attempts was 179 in a season. You compare him to Tebow who had tons of questions about his throwing motion and accuracy and ability to transition to the NFL.

We get it, you don't like him. You like Tannehill. Making baseless comparisons doesn't make your argument any stronger.

**Lzen** · 03-01-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Griffin had a 179 rushes this year.

Final year in college # of rushes
Newton - 264
Kaepernick - 175
Dalton - 86
Colt McCoy - 129
Tannehill - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by tymania

I did not watch a lot of RG3 at Baylor but the times i did watch him, to me he seemed to be a pass first run second type of QB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WV

This....thanks for posting it I was going to look for the same stat. I don't get where all these morons keep calling RG3 a running QB. You do not obtain his accuracy by throwing on the run all the time. The pigeon holing of the athletic black QB continues.

I was about to post about this but I see you guys have it covered. Griffin never seemed to me like a running QB. Always looking to pass downfield. The comparison to Vick is unfair.

**Lzen** · 03-01-2012, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Being in a spread offense.

That's really another knock against him as well. That spread offense has produced lots of guys that don't transition well into pro style offenses.

Again, this board just wants to draft ANY QB......JUST BECAUSE.

The spread offense argument is actually a legitimate argument. Unlike the running QB argument.

BigChiefFan · 03-01-2012, 09:51 AM

RG3 is talented as Hell, but I have to say the spread offense concerns me big time.

suds79 · 03-01-2012, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Being in a spread offense.

That's really another knock against him as well. That spread offense has produced lots of guys that don't transition well into pro style offenses.

How many teams are running some sort of the spread right now though? It's a QB friendly system. That's why I think so many teams are operating so much out of shotgun.

Pats? Check.
Saints? Check.
Lions? Check.
GB? Maybe not as much but seems as though they operate out of the gun a lot.

My point is that I'm not sure I buy much anymore that the spread is vastly different from the NFL.

03-01-2012, 08:53 AM	#32
RippedmyFlesh Veteran Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York Casino cash: $10005817	I agree with TheGuardian pocket passers= SB's. But to me RG3 is the exception. He has a pocket passer's arm which usually with a mobile qb is not the case. If he got injured and lost mobility but somehow it didn't affect his passing I would still build around him.
Posts: 4,848

03-01-2012, 08:59 AM	#33
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1662500	I agree with some of this... and I've said as much. Not that it would necessarily keep me from drafting the guy. Yeah Luck is mobile too but he is not anywhere near Griffin's universe. Few people are... Griffin is a once in a decade talent. But nobody has ever won with a scrambling QB. He will have to become an elite passer as well to win. Remember when Young won he set a record for Super Bowl passing TDs and was one of the best passing QBs in the league. My other concern is Griffin is not a big tank like Newton or Tebow... so he's probably a bigger injury risk. But I think he's a better passer than Vick or Vince Young... his potential is off the charts. Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 55,012

03-01-2012, 09:18 AM	#34
Reerun_KC Rock Chalk Jayhawks! KU!!! Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $8301160	all buffets thinks Racist Whitlock is a curse...
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03-01-2012, 09:51 AM	#44
BigChiefFan MVP Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: In the Top 10 Casino cash: $9924205	RG3 is talented as Hell, but I have to say the spread offense concerns me big time. __________________ A 35 year drought can make you thirsty.
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