Chiefs PFF talks Chiefs O-line - Page 10

Hammock Parties · 04-03-2012, 03:30 AM

This is also an excellent article explaining some of their grading process.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...-april-2-2012/

You guys have talked a lot about Barry Richardson dragging down the quality of the Chiefs’ line. Now that they’ve added Eric Winston, how do you think their line grades out compared to the rest of the league? – Matt Conner

Ben Stockwell: The addition of Winston immediately makes the Chiefs one of the best offensive lines in the league. In terms of an offensive line ranking, Winston not only upgrades a line that we ranked 16th in the 2011 season, it plugs their biggest weakness and also takes away one of the best players from our fifth-ranked offensive line from last season. It doesn’t solve all of their problems, but any time that you can replace arguably the worst right tackle in the league with arguably the best, well you can’t really make a bigger jump than that.

You can only really imagine where the Chiefs might be if they hadn’t made the hasty decision of cutting Jared Gaither during the middle of the year. A line of Gaither at left tackle, Winston at right tackle and shifting Branden Albert inside to his collegiate position of guard would be a fearsome group for the Chiefs’ backfield duo of Jamaal Charles and Peyton Hillis to run behind. As it is, they don’t have Gaither anymore, but they’re not exactly short changed.

The biggest obstacle for the Chiefs to improve in 2012 will be getting more from there interior offensive line as run blockers. Winston really helps them on the edge–not only in upgrading their pass protection, but also helping them spring more runs off-tackle–but Jon Asamoah and Ryan Lilja really need to up their game as interior run blockers. It’s just about all this line is missing now that they have made that big leap at right tackle.

Chief3188 · 04-03-2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott free

This, eight days a week, he gets completely exposed against the better defenses.

DB's have it made playing this guy, he takes half of the field away from himself... 'listen ya'll, dont bite on no fakes, this mfer aint shit outside twenty yards.'

And little does that DB know but he is giving Cassel 15 yards more credit than he deserves with his statement

Chief3188 · 04-03-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott free

thats a pretty damn good comparison... while they're 'skill sets' were much different with Bono possibly being even more of a rag-arm & smaller, but with better run around ability... its still a PERFECT comparison in terms of what they accomplished.

The main comparison I had in mind with those 2 could is the fact that neither can win with a tough schedule despite a good defense, Oline and Rushing game.

Cassel's deceiving 2010 season was the same set of circumstances as Bono's mirage of a season in 95 and if I remember right I think Bono might have snuck into the pro bowl that year just like Casshole

**BigMeatballDave** · 04-03-2012, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

How can we "keep" Hudson at Center? The guy has never snapped the ball in the NFL nor did he ever start a game there in college.

He was a 3* recruit at Center in high school who blossomed into an All-American Guard in college. How many times do we have to watch the Chiefs switch players' positions around to disasterous results before we quit pining for a patchwork team?

Well, Konz has never snapped a football in the NFL either.

**ChiefGator** · 04-04-2012, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief3188

Tamba Hali laughs at your statement and curses your mother in Liberian.

Liberia's official language is English, so not sure how scary that would be.

O.city · 04-04-2012, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

Well, Konz has never snapped a football in the NFL either.

Konz doesn't fit our scheme at all.

Saul's right on this one. Why take a guy that was an all american for 2 years in college and move him because he "projects" to be good at one spot, moving him from a spot we already know what we have in him?

Now, I'm by no means saying he won't be a great center, I would just rather us draft a center and leave him at guard.

jspchief · 04-04-2012, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefGator

Liberia's official language is English, so not sure how scary that would be.

Coming from an angry Hali? Pretty scary.

**BigMeatballDave** · 04-04-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Konz doesn't fit our scheme at all.

Saul's right on this one. Why take a guy that was an all american for 2 years in college and move him because he "projects" to be good at one spot, moving him from a spot we already know what we have in him?

Now, I'm by no means saying he won't be a great center, I would just rather us draft a center and leave him at guard.

LOL I was joking. I mentioned Konz because he's the top C in the draft.

I would prefer they draft a C, but I'm good with Hudson.

Blick · 04-04-2012, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief3188

No. No team is equipped enough to win with Cassel year in and year out. They might have a good enough team to hide his lack of talent and have an easy enough schedule to sneak into the playoffs but once you get there you will face teams with real defenses and real QB's. It just won't fly period. Every minute Cassel is a starter is a minute that is wasted of one of our good players careers.

That's what I've been saying the whole time. And don't get me wrong, that's not what you want out of your QB, but that's probably what we're going to have to roll with.

I'm tired of this "we're gonna face real defenses and real QB's" in the playoffs. No shit. But, it's a team game, and it's about match-ups. If our defense can frustrate the opposing QB and our offense can effectively hide Cassel, then we can win. ****ing Tebow won a playoff game last year against a real defense and a real QB. It's not the ideal scenario, but it's what you have to work with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief3188

Did you actually watch Trent Green? Because if you did you would know the only past Chiefs QB that Cassel compares too is a poor man's Bono.

Trent was helped a lot by a very friendly QB system, a phenomenal offensive line, and the best receiving TE to ever play the game in his prime.

When he didn't have those things, he wasn't anything special. Look at his seasons in 1998 or 2001.

I know we're starving for a real QB, but JFC, the Bono comparison is beyond awful. Just look at his career numbers. They're a joke. When he was Cassel's age, he had 9 career starts under his belt. Cassel has 54.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief3188

I would rather take 27 TD's and 14 interceptions with a QB that can actually move the ball unlike Cassel did that season with our 30th ranked passing offense.

ME TOO!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blick

Obviously we want a real QB

That was in the post that you ****ing quoted.

And I said I would take 27 TD's and 7 INT's...just the ratio by itself, from any QB. I didn't say I wanted Cassel's 2010 season and everything else with it.

WhiteWhale · 04-04-2012, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blick

Win what? The division? One playoff game? A Superbowl?

I think Cassel, with the talent around him, can play like Trent Green. Green's QB ratings from 2002-2005 are 92.6, 92.6, 95.2, and 90.1. Cassel's QB rating in 2010 was 93.

It would be interesting to see how far QB play like that could take us with the defense that we have now.

QB rating is over-rated, and that's a great example of why. It tries to do too much with one number.

Trent Green could have piled up the TD's, but because we always seemed to have a running back who could get 20+ TD's when we needed it he didn't throw much in the RZ. His average yards per attempt were generally a full yard higher than Cassel. He threw for over 4,000 yards three years in a row and routinely attempted 500 or more passes in a season.

We didn't protect Green with playcalling... we protect the shit out of Cassel with playcalling. Also, I take umbrage to 'talent around him'. Cassel has talent around him, it's just not in the same places.

**the Talking Can** · 04-04-2012, 09:59 AM

Green executed the most complicated passing offense in the nfl

Cassel can barely make one read in a remedial offense...Cassel couldn't execute Saunders offense

and it's a lot of fun to listen to a discussing about whether or not we can build an OL good enough to compensate for having a shitty QB...so much has changed since Pioli took over for Carl...amirite?

**ChiefGator** · 04-04-2012, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Green executed the most complicated passing offense in the nfl

Cassel can barely make one read in a remedial offense...Cassel couldn't execute Saunders offense

End thread right here..

Blick · 04-04-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

QB rating is over-rated, and that's a great example of why. It tries to do too much with one number.

Trent Green could have piled up the TD's, but because we always seemed to have a running back who could get 20+ TD's when we needed it he didn't throw much in the RZ. His average yards per attempt were generally a full yard higher than Cassel. He threw for over 4,000 yards three years in a row and routinely attempted 500 or more passes in a season.

We didn't protect Green with playcalling... we protect the shit out of Cassel with playcalling. Also, I take umbrage to 'talent around him'. Cassel has talent around him, it's just not in the same places.

I know the opinion on QB rating.

Green threw for 4000 yards three years in a row at the ages of 33, 34, and 35.

Before that, he was a lot like Cassel.

We didn't need to protect Green with playcalling with that offensive line. Green also had the luxury of having the same offensive coordinator every year, so Green knew that offense inside and out.

Green also had more talent around him, and it's not even close. 3 Hall of Famers.

When we were watching that team, did we really think Green was a great QB? He was closer to good than great.

I bet the opinions of outsiders on Green aren't nearly as glowing as Chiefs fans putting Green on a pedestal, fondly remembering the days when their starting QB didn't suck.

Hammock Parties · 04-04-2012, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blick

Green threw for 4000 yards three years in a row at the ages of 33, 34, and 35.

Before that, he was a lot like Cassel.

No, he wasn't.

He was a very accurate passer in St. Louis. He threw for 8.6 yards per attempt, 13 YEARS AGO.

Cassel will never even come close to 8 yards per attempt in a season.

Stop making this stupid ****ing comparison.

Chief Roundup · 04-04-2012, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Green executed the most complicated passing offense in the nfl

Cassel can barely make one read in a remedial offense...Cassel couldn't execute Saunders offense

This is spot on. I might also add that in Saunders offense it took longer for routes to develop. When it takes longer for things to develop you have to give your QB that extra time.

Blick · 04-04-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Green executed the most complicated passing offense in the nfl

The most complicated part of that offense was all the shifting and motion pre-snap. When the defense reacted, that made it EASIER for the QB to read what the defense was doing. It was very QB friendly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Cassel can barely make one read in a remedial offense...

Exaggeration.

04-03-2012, 03:30 AM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4370478	PFF talks Chiefs O-line This is also an excellent article explaining some of their grading process. http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...-april-2-2012/ You guys have talked a lot about Barry Richardson dragging down the quality of the Chiefs’ line. Now that they’ve added Eric Winston, how do you think their line grades out compared to the rest of the league? – Matt Conner Ben Stockwell: The addition of Winston immediately makes the Chiefs one of the best offensive lines in the league. In terms of an offensive line ranking, Winston not only upgrades a line that we ranked 16th in the 2011 season, it plugs their biggest weakness and also takes away one of the best players from our fifth-ranked offensive line from last season. It doesn’t solve all of their problems, but any time that you can replace arguably the worst right tackle in the league with arguably the best, well you can’t really make a bigger jump than that. You can only really imagine where the Chiefs might be if they hadn’t made the hasty decision of cutting Jared Gaither during the middle of the year. A line of Gaither at left tackle, Winston at right tackle and shifting Branden Albert inside to his collegiate position of guard would be a fearsome group for the Chiefs’ backfield duo of Jamaal Charles and Peyton Hillis to run behind. As it is, they don’t have Gaither anymore, but they’re not exactly short changed. The biggest obstacle for the Chiefs to improve in 2012 will be getting more from there interior offensive line as run blockers. Winston really helps them on the edge–not only in upgrading their pass protection, but also helping them spring more runs off-tackle–but Jon Asamoah and Ryan Lilja really need to up their game as interior run blockers. It’s just about all this line is missing now that they have made that big leap at right tackle.
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04-04-2012, 09:59 AM	#145
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $10022208	Green executed the most complicated passing offense in the nfl Cassel can barely make one read in a remedial offense...Cassel couldn't execute Saunders offense and it's a lot of fun to listen to a discussing about whether or not we can build an OL good enough to compensate for having a shitty QB...so much has changed since Pioli took over for Carl...amirite? __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
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