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View Poll Results: Dealth Penalty??
Yes! 107 67.72%
No! 39 24.68%
Who Cares? 7 4.43%
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:14 PM  
Trivers Trivers is offline
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Should Penn State Get the Death Penalty?
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/481264...lege_football/


Looks like officials are going from Penn State to state pen. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself.)

What say ye? If so, for how long?
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:16 AM   #211
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you evidently don't understand right,wrong and doing something as a matter of PRINCIPAL.

you're rationalizing and mouthing excuses ... looking for a reason to not do the right thing.

I can find an indirect reason to NEVER PUNISH ANYONE FOR ANYTHING


How can we ever send anyone to jail that has children? The children didn't do anything wrong.
Nice redirect. You're the one dodging the direct question.

The children and parents are going to get a huge settlement. And they deserve every penny of it. The damages are going to cost the University probably in the tens of millions of dollars. The reputation of the school is forever tarnished. Sandusky is going to rot in prison and probably for a long while (I hope they let him live miserably rather than doing the honor of letting him go easy). Joe Paterno's legacy will forever be tarnished and his family, I'm sure, is never going to be the same. Curley, Schultz, and hopefully Spanier too are going to fry... big time for this. And everyone is recommending at least a USC like penalty, where they lose football commitments, lose ability to offer scholarships... basically allowing Penn State to keep a football product, but for about 5 years, having no ability to have a quality football product.

Again, what does the death penalty prove beyond what is already being proven? It's an over reactionary justice measure that punishes a whole bunch of people who have nothing to do with this mess and, worst of all, is completely beyond what needs to be done. Nobody is arguing against these parents and kids getting max settlements. They deserve it. Nobody is arguing against administrators getting sent to a pound-me-in-the-ass prison. They deserve it. Nobody is arguing against penalties against football. They deserve it.

The rational ones are arguing against massive penalties to the state of Pennsylvania, the taxpayers who fund it, and the students/faculty who rely on it. Beyond what is necessary.
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Old 07-14-2012, 12:16 PM   #212
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The death penalty will never happen again.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that the death penalty is not just a hit to the football program, it is a devastating blow to a public education institution. One that Pennsylvania taxpayers pay for. One that employs thousands of faculty members. And one that provides quality education to students, many of which can't afford a private university because it's too expensive.

I've talked about the millions of people affected by a death penalty. And you keep singing the same tune that these people who did nothing illegal, for some reason, deserve it because some assholes abused power. The point is to punish the football program, not to destroy an otherwise terrific educational institution that provides a major public benefit.

I don't understand what point you're trying to prove. The guys responsible are going to get destroyed for this. Good. The guys you're trying to destroy with a death penalty are taxpayers, and innocent faculty members, students, and Pennsylvania residents who rely on the school. Again, please tell me who the "they" is when you say that "they" will learn a lesson from the death penalty?
What you're saying would make it impossible to control or punish any organization. If Ford's top executives know that a part they're using will lead to many deaths, the company (and also the individuals) is liable for civil and criminal penalties. The company is liable even though there are many innocent employees and even more innocent stock holders who will suffer as a result. But this has to be the case because, (i) an organization cannot act but through individuals, and hence the individuals' actions are those of the organization, and (ii) an organization would have no incentive to ensure that its agents acted properly if only the individuals were punished. It can't possibly be the case that the top individuals in Penn State Football, acting on behalf of Penn State Football and for the benefit of Penn State Football, can cover up and in some ways facilitate child rape, and no wrongdoing is imputed to Penn State Football. First, the people doing these things were, for all intents and purposes, Penn State Football. Second, if they can just usher those people out with no punishment to the organization, there is no incentive to ensure good behavior by any future agents of Penn State Football.
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Old 07-14-2012, 12:22 PM   #213
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What you're saying would make it impossible to control or punish any organization. If Ford's top executives know that a part they're using will lead to many deaths, the company (and also the individuals) is liable for civil and criminal penalties. The company is liable even though there are many innocent employees and even more innocent stock holders who will suffer as a result. But this has to be the case because, (i) an organization cannot act but through individuals, and hence the individuals' actions are those of the organization, and (ii) an organization would have no incentive to ensure that its agents acted properly if only the individuals were punished. It can't possibly be the case that the top individuals in Penn State Football, acting on behalf of Penn State Football and for the benefit of Penn State Football, can cover up and in some ways facilitate child rape, and no wrongdoing is imputed to Penn State Football. First, the people doing these things were, for all intents and purposes, Penn State Football. Second, if they can just usher those people out with no punishment to the organization, there is no incentive to ensure good behavior by any future agents of Penn State Football.
I don't know how millions of dollars in settlements to victims, forced restructurings, dismissal of all responsible and hopefully civil and criminal charges to those people as well, and a USC-like football suspension... not to mention the massive PR hit, which is going to affect academic and football recruiting for years to come... how does that not constitute punishment? The punishment without the death penalty I imagine is going to be tens of millions of dollars.

If Ford makes faulty cars, you punish them through fines, settlements, and disciplinary action. You're not going to tell them that they're not allowed to make Ford cars anymore for the next 20 years.
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Old 07-14-2012, 12:25 PM   #214
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No. All you are doing is punishing those coming after. Those involved have their own judgement to face. I say let 'em play, and let the Penn State fan base think about what has happened every time they play.
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Old 07-14-2012, 12:35 PM   #215
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I don't know how millions of dollars in settlements to victims, forced restructurings, dismissal of all responsible and hopefully civil and criminal charges to those people as well, and a USC-like football suspension... not to mention the massive PR hit, which is going to affect academic and football recruiting for years to come... how does that not constitute punishment? The punishment without the death penalty I imagine is going to be tens of millions of dollars.

If Ford makes faulty cars, you punish them through fines, settlements, and disciplinary action. You're not going to tell them that they're not allowed to make Ford cars anymore for the next 20 years.
Technically, none of what you're talking about is punishment. The civil settlements will be restitution, the rest basically self inflicted wounds. To use the Ford example, the company would be subject to massive punitive damage awards, and to criminal penalties. I'm honestly not sure whether the NTSB could "de-list" a company. In the pharmaceutical area, if a company does something truly horrific, the FDA can de-list the company and refuse to accept any future applications to market drugs, essentially the death sentence in that area.
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Old 07-14-2012, 12:50 PM   #216
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Technically, none of what you're talking about is punishment. The civil settlements will be restitution, the rest basically self inflicted wounds. To use the Ford example, the company would be subject to massive punitive damage awards, and to criminal penalties. I'm honestly not sure whether the NTSB could "de-list" a company. In the pharmaceutical area, if a company does something truly horrific, the FDA can de-list the company and refuse to accept any future applications to market drugs, essentially the death sentence in that area.
A USC-like penalty is absolutely a punishment. And that in itself will be an enormous hit to Penn State financially.

And the thing to always remember is, the more you talk about additional financial punishments (which the death penalty is, in an indirect way), you have to consider who pays for it. The taxpayers do. So again... what point is being proven?
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:31 PM   #217
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I'm for the death penalty, but not in these situations. IMO the death penalty should not be applied unless it is premeditated murder. At least I don't think the Penn State officials should undergo the death penalty. I do believe that they should serve considerable time. It think that's pretty harsh. Now Sandusky on the other hand, I would vote for the death penalty for that guy and all the like.
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:38 PM   #218
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All of his superiors proved to know about the incident should do some serious time and I'm sure they will. But somebody on here said that the program should be shut down. That's ridiculous. Penn State has been a great football college with great fans. Why should folks who have already undergone ridiculous embarrassment over this and will have to deal with the stigma attached for years to come have to lose their program. They need to clean house (including the board of director members who knew), then hire a serious character AD and coaching staff. They need to remove all of the Paterno relics, donate them to his family (who are also going through ridiculous pain), and the country should get behind them to restore this school.
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:56 PM   #219
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I'm for the death penalty, but not in these situations.
We are talking about a figurative Death Penalty for Penn State Football.

SMU got sanctions so sever from the NCAA that it limited the program and recruiting dried up, the program sort of 'died'. Thus the nickname 'death penalty'

some people think that that NCAA should do that same thing to PSU.


No television/post season/bowl games etc for PSU football 2/3 years.
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:04 PM   #220
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I keep seeing things like, "Don't you think the fans, university and town are embarrassed enough already"?

Considering these assholes were holding rallies for Paterno - not the victims of abuse - when the news leaked, I'd say no.
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Old 07-14-2012, 04:06 PM   #221
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Breaking News

Penn State's Board of Trustees have decided to leave Joe Paterno's statue standing.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...te-sources-say

Cult town!
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Old 07-14-2012, 04:10 PM   #222
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What a ****ing disgrace and joke that university is...
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Old 07-14-2012, 04:13 PM   #223
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I keep seeing things like, "Don't you think the fans, university and town are embarrassed enough already"?

Considering these assholes were holding rallies for Paterno - not the victims of abuse - when the news leaked, I'd say no.
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Breaking News

Penn State's Board of Trustees have decided to leave Joe Paterno's statue standing.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...te-sources-say

Cult town!

Like I was saying...
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Old 07-14-2012, 04:15 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Dylan View Post
Breaking News

Penn State's Board of Trustees have decided to leave Joe Paterno's statue standing.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...te-sources-say

Cult town!
You really have to wonder--what would he have to do for them to take it down? Would personally raping a child be sufficient? I'm not sure.
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Old 07-14-2012, 04:20 PM   #225
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NCAA needs to sanction Penn State and let every PSU player transfer immediately to another scholarship program.
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