Clark caught between a rock and a hard place

[Fat Elvis]

Clark is in a Catch-22. If he lets Pioli go now, there will be the perception among the fans, owners, and the NFL in general that he doesn't really make the decisions around here- he will be percieved as beeing subject to the whims of the fans. On the other hand, if he doesn't let Pioli go, he will have totally alienated the entire fan base who makes his team profitable (outside of TV revenues). The Chiefs have made one PR blunder after another this year and fans are on the verge of outright revolt.

In all seriousness, if you are Clark- and view this purely as a business decision- what is your next move?

[pr_capone]

Originally Posted by Laz

Pioli saw Cassel do it in New England bought in ... it was a big mistake.

Thigpen - Gailey guy
Palko - Haley guy
Quinn - Crennel guy

overall talent level on this team seems better to me than it has in a decade

He's done it before ... Tom Brady

You are either trolling or incredibly dense.

[R8RFAN]

this has gone from funny to pathetic

[Hammock Parties]

Pioli makes Carl Peterson look like the friendliest guy on the planet.

He's a fat, egotistical, insecure, mean-spirited jackass.

And he embarrasses the franchise more than Haley EVER did.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Laz

yea, well i find it very hard to believe that Manning didn't come to KC because his agent and Pioli didn't get along.

I've seen no indication that Pioli has that same personality issues with agents that Carl Peterson did.

no limitations on spending isn't that same as deciding that giving a huge contract to an older guy with mulitiple neck surgeries isn't a good idea. But i don't know who would make that decision ... Pioli or Clark or Both.

Manning mentioned several times that he would never play for an organization where he didn't feel like he could do his own thing and have at least some say in personnel decisions. You think he'd really believe a guy who hired 4 offensive coordinators, all of whom had experience in Erhardt-Perkins, when he says he'd give flexibility to run the offense?

Manning is a personal guy who does a gazillion media appearances. He loves the fans. How do you think he would feel about KC's media policy and scripted media talking points?

Do the math. There is no way Peyton would ever play for a team culture like this.

[BossChief]

I wonder what Haley would have been like with a GM that agreed with Haley and his dad that Cassel wasn't the answer.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Scott Pioli micromanages

• Kent Babb has detailed plenty of stories surrounding this. This wasn't just a janitor. This was a professional report that used a ton of interviews and sources to put the picture together. If Pioli is upset about it, then maybe the ****er should have had the guts to actually entertain Babb's request for comment. Even Clark Hunt and Mark Donovan had the balls to discuss it.
• Bob Gretz wrote in a follow-up that the micromanagement was coming all the way from Texas. He didn't specify what, but it sure sounded like it was all the way down to lineup changes and game planning
• When was the last time you heard a player go off-script? The comment was made that when Eric Berry's class did their first interviews, they were already talking like robots.
• There was buzz at the combine that everybody was well aware of the Chiefs' toxic environment
• Matt Cassel. Romeo Crennel made several public comments about wanting QB competition. Not a backup. Competition. He clearly liked Orton, he raved about Peyton Manning, and he said Cassel was not guaranteed a starting job. The FIRST person to say Cassel was the clear starter was Scott Pioli, not Romeo. Fast forward to 2012. Romeo and Daboll design an offense that runs the ball 80% of the time while only having Cassel throw dump-off passes. I don't know how much clearer it could be that Romeo and Daboll have no confidence in the QB.
• Dick Haley told Todd Haley he couldn't win with Cassel as a QB. You'd have to think Todd would at least consider his father's advice. There are reports from yet another insider who suggests that Charlie Weis didn't like Cassel either. So you have 4 coaches who have shown clearly that they did not like the QB, and yet he continues to start and for 4 years has no competition.
• What offense and defense are we running? How many coaches have we hired during that time frame? Scott Pioli has hired 2 defensive coordinators, 3 offensive coordinators, and 2 head coaches. All 3 offensive coordinators ran the Erhardt-Perkins offense. All our defensive coordinators run 2-gap 3-4. Haley's experience was in a Whisenhunt offense and he hired Clancy Pendergast, whose experience is in a 1-gap defense
• Oh hey, let's not forget that Charlie Weis screamed up and down that he wanted Jimmy Clausen. The Chiefs passed up on him twice. Regardless of how good Clausen was, this is yet another experienced coach who hated our QB yet was not allowed to get rid of him.
• Connect the dots to the Pendergast comment. Haley threw a shit fit when Tyson Jackson was drafted. It sure seemed from day 1 that Haley was never allowed to run the offense or defense he wanted to because it wasn't exactly what Pioli wanted.
• Babb alleges in a separate report that Pioli dictated roster decisions to Pioli

Scott Pioli is a bully to the media

• Fact: Scott Pioli locked out the media - This is indisputable. Mark Donovan confirmed this in Arrowhead Anxiety. It involved shutting media guys out, closing the shades in offices, and practices. And we feel it as fans. There aren't stories written about our players. Our players talk in scripts rather than talking candidly.
• Fact: Scott Pioli pays way too much attention to what the media says about him and his Chiefs - Talk to anyone who has ever written for the Chiefs, whether that's the Kansas City Star or just some small time blog. Scott Pioli will contact you if he doesn't like the kind of store you write.

I honestly don't know what more proof you want.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Laz

Most owners are not going to want to blow it up after just 4/5 years.

Another thing that might lead to it is if Crennel can't get/keep the team motivated.

If the team falls asleep then Crennel will have to go.

Firing the head coach again will be a partial 'blow up' which could lead to Pioli getting the boot too.

The Chiefs haven't won enough that's for sure.

Also depends on the viable candidates at GM/HC as replacements.

How many GMs get a chance to hire 3 head coaches, let alone 3 in 5 years?

Nobody wants to ****ing work for Pioli. Even if you have your head in the sand and choose not to believe that Arrowhead is a toxic environment right now, let's look at what you perceive as a head coach:

You'd have to take a HUGE leap of faith that you'd have any chance of running anything but the 2-gap 3-4 defense. Clark Hunt wanted Steelers football. Haley requested a defensive coordinator in Pendergast who ran a similar Steelers defensive scheme. Pioli ran 2-gap anyway, even though he knew it would take 2-3 years to build personnel. Unlike Dimitroff, Pioli has a clear reputation for force-fitting his philosophy onto his team.

You'd have to take a HUGE leap of faith that Pioli wants to run anything but Erhardt-Perkins. 4 offensive coordinators. All had experience with Erhardt-Perkins. All ran, essentially, Erhardt-Perkins.

You'd have to take a HUGE leap of faith that Pioli will fight to get the right QB on the roster. 4 years. 1 bad QB. No legit competition brought in, despite some pretty visible rumbling from everyone beneath him that at least some competition was necessary.

You'd have to ignore all the stories talking about Arrowhead being a toxic place to be. There have been multiple stories, but no conflicting reports. There is a clear media lockdown in the place. There has been a clear re-training of coaches and players to talk on scripts vs. talking candidly. And I can guarantee you that if the stories are true, and they undoubtedly are, about the culture Kansas City has, there are a lot of very good coaches who will refuse to interview for a coach or coordinator position in KC.

Pioli has become the Al Davis of the NFL.

[splatbass]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

No head coach wants to ****ing work in Kansas city. No defensive coordinator or offensive coordinator wants to work here. I can't imagine what kind of reject coach we'd have to get that would agree to being micro managed all the way to the starting lineup setup.

BS. Even Al Davis was able to hire coaches, and no one micromanaged more than him.

[splatbass]

Originally Posted by KCrockaholic

Why has nearly every single hire been guys he's worked with previously?

That happens all over the NFL. Always has, always will.

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by BossChief

I wonder what Haley would have been like with a GM that agreed with Haley and his dad that Cassel wasn't the answer.

You know the answer to this. He would have had DJ ripping heads off and spitting down throats. Matty C would be in year three of his "foundation work" back in Chatsworth & Bowe would be a perennial PB. I don't know who the QB would be, but it could have been Andrew Luck, Cam Newton or a number of guys.

[KCrockaholic]

Originally Posted by splatbass

That happens all over the NFL. Always has, always will.

It didn't happen in Atlanta.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Scott Pioli micromanages

• Kent Babb has detailed plenty of stories surrounding this. This wasn't just a janitor. This was a professional report that used a ton of interviews and sources to put the picture together. If Pioli is upset about it, then maybe the ****er should have had the guts to actually entertain Babb's request for comment. Even Clark Hunt and Mark Donovan had the balls to discuss it.

this was about the office and gum wrapper-gate. I could give a **** whether Pioli 'kicks ass' in the offices and makes a secretary cry.

hell, i've done the same thing myself.

Bob Gretz wrote in a follow-up that the micromanagement was coming all the way from Texas. He didn't specify what, but it sure sounded like it was all the way down to lineup changes and game planning

all the way from Texas? Pioli isn't from Texas ... so Clark Hunt was involved?

• When was the last time you heard a player go off-script? The comment was made that when Eric Berry's class did their first interviews, they were already talking like robots

Plenty of teams keep the players quotes on lockdown ... means nothing. Would rather have a raving lunatic like the Jets?

• There was buzz at the combine that everybody was well aware of the Chiefs' toxic environment

• More Wrapper-gate ... who gives a shit

• Matt Cassel. Romeo Crennel made several public comments about wanting QB competition. Not a backup. Competition. He clearly liked Orton, he raved about Peyton Manning, and he said Cassel was not guaranteed a starting job. The FIRST person to say Cassel was the clear starter was Scott Pioli, not Romeo. Fast forward to 2012. Romeo and Daboll design an offense that runs the ball 80% of the time while only having Cassel throw dump-off passes. I don't know how much clearer it could be that Romeo and Daboll have no confidence in the QB.

  QB situation has definitely been screwed up. I've wonders myself whether Pioli has purposely avoided bringing anyone in that could compete with Cassel to protect him.

Dick Haley told Todd Haley he couldn't win with Cassel as a QB. You'd have to think Todd would at least consider his father's advice. There are reports from yet another insider who suggests that Charlie Weis didn't like Cassel either. So you have 4 coaches who have shown clearly that they did not like the QB, and yet he continues to start and for 4 years has no competition.

• **** that insane bastard Todd Haley. Did Pioli bug Haley's father's phone too?

• What offense and defense are we running? How many coaches have we hired during that time frame? Scott Pioli has hired 2 defensive coordinators, 3 offensive coordinators, and 2 head coaches. All 3 offensive coordinators ran the Erhardt-Perkins offense. All our defensive coordinators run 2-gap 3-4. Haley's experience was in a Whisenhunt offense and he hired Clancy Pendergast, whose experience is in a 1-gap defense

• Pioli definitely seems to want to run a specific style of football

• Oh hey, let's not forget that Charlie Weis screamed up and down that he wanted Jimmy Clausen. The Chiefs passed up on him twice. Regardless of how good Clausen was, this is yet another experienced coach who hated our QB yet was not allowed to get rid of him.

  exeraggation much? We heard a rumor that Weis said he wanted to draft Clausen in the War Room. We have no idea whether that's true and we sure as hell don't know that he 'screamed up and down' about anything. Clausen turned out to pretty much suck anyway.

• Connect the dots to the Pendergast comment. Haley threw a shit fit when Tyson Jackson was drafted. It sure seemed from day 1 that Haley was never allowed to run the offense or defense he wanted to because it wasn't exactly what Pioli wanted.

  speculative bullshit ... you have no idea whether any of that's true. But even if it was, LOTS of head coaches get pissed because they 'aren't allowed to buy the groceries' or whatever the hell Parcells used to say.

• Babb alleges in a separate report that Pioli dictated roster decisions to Pioli

  Babb said that 'HE KNEW' it happened under Haley but that he 'wondered' whether it was happening under Crennel. So you tell me, how could he know under Haley but not Crennel UNLESS HALEY WAS THE SOURCE? Forgive me if i don't consider that crazy,lying bastard Haley a reliable source.

.

Scott Pioli is a bully to the media

• Fact: Scott Pioli locked out the media - This is indisputable. Mark Donovan confirmed this in Arrowhead Anxiety. It involved shutting media guys out, closing the shades in offices, and practices. And we feel it as fans. There aren't stories written about our players. Our players talk in scripts rather than talking candidly.
• Fact: Scott Pioli pays way too much attention to what the media says about him and his Chiefs - Talk to anyone who has ever written for the Chiefs, whether that's the Kansas City Star or just some small time blog. Scott Pioli will contact you if he doesn't like the kind of store you write.

I honestly don't know what more proof you want.

blah,blah,blah ... **** the media. Don't give a shit whether they are pissed or not.

[Hammock Parties]

Laz is being a dipshit contrarian.

There is no reason to keep anyone from the current regime employed. PERIOD.

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning

Pioli makes Carl Peterson look like the friendliest guy on the planet.

He's a fat, egotistical, insecure, mean-spirited jackass.

And he embarrasses the franchise more than Haley EVER did.

The only difference so far is that fans didn't take twenty years to figure out the GM is a ****ing rip off artist.

[splatbass]

Originally Posted by KCrockaholic

It didn't happen in Atlanta.

So? Does that mean that it doesn't happen on most teams? Of course not. Seriously, some of you guys need to take a course in logic.

Also, going back to your first post in this thread, no team should ever let the fans run the team. That is a poor way to manage anything. Fans are fickle, and change their minds constantly, based on knee jerk reactions and not knowledge of what is going on. Only an idiot would let a popularity contest make important decisions.

Pioli should be fired, and Cassel should have been benched long ago. But it should be because it is the right decision, not because idiots on a message board practicing group think want them to.