Chiefs The Myth of Glenn Dorsey - Page 6

Sorter · 10-29-2012, 10:29 AM

I continually hear via radio and occasionally here that Dorsey would be better in a 1-gap scheme and/or a 4-3 base front.

This is a myth. On our sub packages, our two DTs (Poe and Bailey) play a 3-tech and a shaded 2-tech or 1-tech. People complaining that Dorsey just needs to be turned loose and enabled to attack the passer need to realize that if Dorsey was able to do those things, he would have been starting in our sub-package since he was drafted.

The fact is, Dorsey simply hasn't and won't meet the expectations that he received when drafted in the top 5. That isn't due to scheme or philosophies, IMO. If he was good enough to rush the passer from the several DT techniques that most 4-3 teams run, he would be starting on our sub packages and been productive.

This isn't shocking news to most but I thought it might be thread worthy because of the bitching I continually hear about Dorsey and how we might receive a pick for trading him.

Sorter · 10-29-2012, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Well, this is the point I"m trying to make here. A RB isn't going to be as good of a receiver as a receiver, even if he was a great receiver in high school. It's because all their training goes toward being a running back. Now, if you spent a full offseason coaching receiving technique, prepping his body to be a receiver, maybe he becomes better.

Dorsey spent one year learning more of a NT from dimwit Gunther Cunningham. He spent the next 4 years learning a read and react defense. He hasn't been coached on pass rush moves. I'm sure the majority of his technique he's been coached on is engage-and-shed, as opposed to swim moves and other moves meant to get into the backfield. And the read and react takes away his greatest strength, which is his explosion off the snap.

I'd like to see Dorsey in a 1-gap. Give him the full offseason to prep and learn and practice it. I don't expect him to rack up a ton of sacks. But in college, he was always in the backfield pushing the pocket in. People say he played 2-gap. But in college, he was asked to explode to the ball, not read and react as he does today.

Fair enough. Personally, I wouldn't be against re-signing him to a reasonable 2/3 year contract and seeing if he could perform in a 1-gap. I would just be surprised if he did.

TheGuardian · 10-29-2012, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

He had 7 sacks and 12.5 tackles for loss his senior year at LSU, in spite of routinely being double teamed. To say he has never had the ability to penetrate is ridiculous.

I watched him at LSU. I'm an LSU fan. DUH! It's not about numbers. It's about the fact that he was hard to handle for most college linemen, however his pass rushing skills were always limited. I mean for the love of God Vernon Gholston was a beast at OSU and a total bust as a pro.

Dorsey was NEVER worth a shit at pass rushing. To insinuate he was based on some numbers is what's ridiculous. Did you watch him play? **** no you didn't.

Ace Gunner · 10-29-2012, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

I watched him at LSU. I'm an LSU fan. DUH! It's not about numbers. It's about the fact that he was hard to handle for most college linemen, however his pass rushing skills were always limited. I mean for the love of God Vernon Gholston was a beast at OSU and a total bust as a pro.

Dorsey was NEVER worth a shit at pass rushing. To insinuate he was based on some numbers is what's ridiculous. Did you watch him play? **** no you didn't.

rep

T-post Tom · 10-29-2012, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

If he was any good, the coaches would leave him on the field.

Sincerely,
I'm not exactly sure why Charles only got 5 carries.

Oh snap!

Chief Faithful · 10-30-2012, 08:17 AM

Pitoitua was a backup that the Chiefs obtain from FA playing better than Dorsey on his best day. Glenn Dorsey needs to be traded for whatever draft pick they can get.

Chief Faithful · 10-30-2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xztop12

He can still be good we need a new DC. poe im not sure about

Poe is already playing better than Dorsey.

Skyy God · 10-30-2012, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Faithful

Pitoitua was a backup that the Chiefs obtain from FA playing better than Dorsey on his best day. Glenn Dorsey needs to be traded for whatever draft pick they can get.

He's injured, unproductive, and is making $5.5M this year. No way another team takes on his salary.

**TimeForWasp** · 10-30-2012, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

****ing bust.

I'm pissed that I bought his jersey after we drafted him. He'll go into the box of shame alongside Larry Johnson's jersey.

You should dye that LJ jersey black and wear it to the game.

**Dave Lane** · 10-30-2012, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

We should have lost 1 more game in 2007 and drafted Ryan ahead of Atlanta

Totally this...

jspchief · 10-30-2012, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

I watched him at LSU. I'm an LSU fan. DUH! It's not about numbers. It's about the fact that he was hard to handle for most college linemen, however his pass rushing skills were always limited. I mean for the love of God Vernon Gholston was a beast at OSU and a total bust as a pro.

Dorsey was NEVER worth a shit at pass rushing. To insinuate he was based on some numbers is what's ridiculous. Did you watch him play? **** no you didn't.

Was was a DT you dumb****. The guy wasn't asked to be Michael Strahan in college, nor was he drafted to be him in the NFL. It wasn't his job to rush the passer, it was to collapse the pocket so the DEs could rush the passer. Of course he wasn't Warren Sapp. Sapp is probably the best pass rushing DT to ever play the game. But to act like Dorsey was wasn't disruptive in college is ****ing ridiculous. 7 sacks from a TACKLE that was constantly double teamed is exceptional. Period. He was one of the most decorated DTs in the history of NCAA football. Suddenly revisionist history has the Chiefs reaching for a guy that would have been there 10 picks later? The fact that he made it to the 5th pick was an anomaly.

I swear to god you have some the stupidest ****ing takes on football that I read on this board, and you constantly deliver them with this ridiculous "and I know what I'm watching better than you" rhetoric. You've got all the charm of Mecca with none of the actual football knowledge.

jspchief · 10-30-2012, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter

That isn't at all what any of my posts say, you moron. Dorsey is a fine run-stopper. The post says that people are making Dorsey out to be some mythical pass-rusher who would excel in the 4-3 or the 1-gap. That isn't and wouldn't be the case.

Honestly, maybe I've missed it but I don't remember anyone ever acting like he would be Sapp-like or "mythical" in his pass rushing ability.

What I do see said often around here is that Crennel's shit-stain scheme is a bad fit for Dorsey.

I think most intelligent fans recognize that as a defensive tackle, his impact in the passing game isn't going to manifest itself in sack totals. Defensive tackles don't do what Warren Sapp did. Even so, 4 sacks in 4 years is an almost impossibly bad output.

Deberg_1990 · 11-05-2012, 09:56 AM

latest "Woe is me" story on Dorsey in todays Star.

I think id be perfectly happy if the Chiefs never drafted a defensive lineman in the 1st 2 rounds ever again........

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/05...fs-dorsey.html

After latest injury, time may be up for Chiefs’ Glenn Dorsey

Defensive lineman Glenn Dorsey swatted at the ground in obvious frustration at one point of last week’s game in San Diego, his calf injured again in his first game back after a four-game absence.

Dorsey may return at some point this year or perhaps this injury has ended his season. Either way, his career with the Chiefs appears to be winding down and certainly not the way they envisioned with they made him the fifth pick in the 2008 draft.

The Chiefs thought at the time Dorsey would be the centerpiece of their massive rebuilding project and a dominant defensive tackle the likes of which hadn’t been seen in a Kansas City uniform in years.

It never happened for Dorsey. A year after he was drafted, the Chiefs changed defensive systems to the 3-4, one not ideally suited for his abilities.

He became a useful player but not as useful as any team hopes the fifth pick of the draft would be. He is only a part-time player, playing against the run but coming out of the game in obvious passing situations.

His contract expires at the end of the season and the Chiefs are unlikely to spend a lot of money on a part-time player, so it’s more likely Dorsey will move on.

“He can play in the 3-4 but we drafted him to do something different,” said Herm Edwards, the Chiefs head coach when they drafted Dorsey. “They’re asking him to do something he can do but might not be the best thing for him. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. He’ll have an opportunity to go somewhere else if he doesn’t come back to Kansas City.”

Current Chiefs coach Romeo Crennel sounded immediately after the game in San Diego like Dorsey’s absence this time would be even more extended than the one that just ended.

He has since backed off those comments, suggesting Dorsey may not be out of the lineup that long.

“I was more disappointed, I guess,” Crennel said. “He’s a player who’s been working hard to get back on the field and then he gets back on the field and then reinjures himself. When you reinjure yourself after an initial injury, it’s not as good, so I was a little disappointed about that because Glenn is a good, solid player for us and has been a good, solid player for us. I think probably I let my disappointment show in the comments I made about him.

“We’ll have to see how that plays out.”

Even before the Chiefs switched defensive systems, Dorsey had a disappointing rookie season while playing for Edwards. But it’s not unusual for defensive tackles to take some time to adjust to playing in the NFL, so the Chiefs remained optimistic about Dorsey.
Then came the system change, one that affected a lot of the Chiefs defensive players but perhaps Dorsey the most. He was suddenly asked mainly to keep blockers away from the linebackers instead of making plays himself.

“He does a really good job in our scheme and in our system,” Crennel said. “He’s a pretty solid player for what we ask him to do.

“I remember (when Dorsey came to the Chiefs) that he was a good player and that there was a lot of press about his abilities and his ability to go on and come into this league and have an opportunity to be a solid player. I think here again, he’s another one of those guys who went from (a 4-3 system), a penetrating kind of defense, to a head-up, two-gap kind of guy. Since he’s done that, since I’ve been here, he’s been a solid guy for us.”

Despite that, Dorsey doesn’t get a lot of chances to rush the quarterback. He never developed as a pass rusher, something that shouldn’t be affected as much by a change in systems.

“Sometimes those guys who you put head-up on an offensive lineman, when a pass develops, they have to get to the edge and it takes time for them to get to the edge, whereas those 4-3 teams, primarily everybody is already lined up on the edge,” Crennel said. “That’s one or two steps that those guys don’t have to take, but in our system, we play our system to help against the run and then our linebackers are the guys who generate the pass rush.”

htismaqe · 11-05-2012, 10:14 AM

Romeo and Herm in the same article.

Throw in some quotes from Gunther and just let this thing implode already.

Chief_For_Life58 · 11-05-2012, 10:18 AM

any defensive lineman taken with the first 5 picks is a waste of value. QB, LT, CB, PASSRUSHERS, maybe safetys maybe tight ends. Anything else top 10 is a waste. You can just plug in all the rest of average bullshit players that get drafted every year. Atleast take a chance on a guy who would extremely impact your team with your first pick if he were to turn into a beast. Id rather take the chance then have glenn dorsey and tyson jackson. We coulda picked those guys in the 7th round.

**BossChief** · 11-05-2012, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

I watched him at LSU. I'm an LSU fan. DUH! It's not about numbers. It's about the fact that he was hard to handle for most college linemen, however his pass rushing skills were always limited. I mean for the love of God Vernon Gholston was a beast at OSU and a total bust as a pro.

Dorsey was NEVER worth a shit at pass rushing. To insinuate he was based on some numbers is what's ridiculous. Did you watch him play? **** no you didn't.

His first step was ridiculously good for a man his size and that is like accuracy and arm strength to qbs...or vision, acceleration and balance for running backs.

To act as if the guy never had the skills to be a dual threat DT is silly.

10-29-2012, 10:29 AM
Sorter Caralho Join Date: Sep 2011 Casino cash: $9611474	The Myth of Glenn Dorsey I continually hear via radio and occasionally here that Dorsey would be better in a 1-gap scheme and/or a 4-3 base front. This is a myth. On our sub packages, our two DTs (Poe and Bailey) play a 3-tech and a shaded 2-tech or 1-tech. People complaining that Dorsey just needs to be turned loose and enabled to attack the passer need to realize that if Dorsey was able to do those things, he would have been starting in our sub-package since he was drafted. The fact is, Dorsey simply hasn't and won't meet the expectations that he received when drafted in the top 5. That isn't due to scheme or philosophies, IMO. If he was good enough to rush the passer from the several DT techniques that most 4-3 teams run, he would be starting on our sub packages and been productive. This isn't shocking news to most but I thought it might be thread worthy because of the bitching I continually hear about Dorsey and how we might receive a pick for trading him.
Posts: 18,455

10-30-2012, 08:17 AM	#80
Chief Faithful Predicting Chiefs Victory Join Date: Sep 2001 Casino cash: $9966500	Pitoitua was a backup that the Chiefs obtain from FA playing better than Dorsey on his best day. Glenn Dorsey needs to be traded for whatever draft pick they can get.
Posts: 4,315

11-05-2012, 09:56 AM	#87
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $284454	latest "Woe is me" story on Dorsey in todays Star. I think id be perfectly happy if the Chiefs never drafted a defensive lineman in the 1st 2 rounds ever again........ http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/05...fs-dorsey.html After latest injury, time may be up for Chiefs’ Glenn Dorsey Defensive lineman Glenn Dorsey swatted at the ground in obvious frustration at one point of last week’s game in San Diego, his calf injured again in his first game back after a four-game absence. Dorsey may return at some point this year or perhaps this injury has ended his season. Either way, his career with the Chiefs appears to be winding down and certainly not the way they envisioned with they made him the fifth pick in the 2008 draft. The Chiefs thought at the time Dorsey would be the centerpiece of their massive rebuilding project and a dominant defensive tackle the likes of which hadn’t been seen in a Kansas City uniform in years. It never happened for Dorsey. A year after he was drafted, the Chiefs changed defensive systems to the 3-4, one not ideally suited for his abilities. He became a useful player but not as useful as any team hopes the fifth pick of the draft would be. He is only a part-time player, playing against the run but coming out of the game in obvious passing situations. His contract expires at the end of the season and the Chiefs are unlikely to spend a lot of money on a part-time player, so it’s more likely Dorsey will move on. “He can play in the 3-4 but we drafted him to do something different,” said Herm Edwards, the Chiefs head coach when they drafted Dorsey. “They’re asking him to do something he can do but might not be the best thing for him. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. He’ll have an opportunity to go somewhere else if he doesn’t come back to Kansas City.” Current Chiefs coach Romeo Crennel sounded immediately after the game in San Diego like Dorsey’s absence this time would be even more extended than the one that just ended. He has since backed off those comments, suggesting Dorsey may not be out of the lineup that long. “I was more disappointed, I guess,” Crennel said. “He’s a player who’s been working hard to get back on the field and then he gets back on the field and then reinjures himself. When you reinjure yourself after an initial injury, it’s not as good, so I was a little disappointed about that because Glenn is a good, solid player for us and has been a good, solid player for us. I think probably I let my disappointment show in the comments I made about him. “We’ll have to see how that plays out.” Even before the Chiefs switched defensive systems, Dorsey had a disappointing rookie season while playing for Edwards. But it’s not unusual for defensive tackles to take some time to adjust to playing in the NFL, so the Chiefs remained optimistic about Dorsey. Then came the system change, one that affected a lot of the Chiefs defensive players but perhaps Dorsey the most. He was suddenly asked mainly to keep blockers away from the linebackers instead of making plays himself. “He does a really good job in our scheme and in our system,” Crennel said. “He’s a pretty solid player for what we ask him to do. “I remember (when Dorsey came to the Chiefs) that he was a good player and that there was a lot of press about his abilities and his ability to go on and come into this league and have an opportunity to be a solid player. I think here again, he’s another one of those guys who went from (a 4-3 system), a penetrating kind of defense, to a head-up, two-gap kind of guy. Since he’s done that, since I’ve been here, he’s been a solid guy for us.” Despite that, Dorsey doesn’t get a lot of chances to rush the quarterback. He never developed as a pass rusher, something that shouldn’t be affected as much by a change in systems. “Sometimes those guys who you put head-up on an offensive lineman, when a pass develops, they have to get to the edge and it takes time for them to get to the edge, whereas those 4-3 teams, primarily everybody is already lined up on the edge,” Crennel said. “That’s one or two steps that those guys don’t have to take, but in our system, we play our system to help against the run and then our linebackers are the guys who generate the pass rush.” __________________ Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning: Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down. One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
Posts: 68,459

11-05-2012, 10:14 AM	#88
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8179900	Romeo and Herm in the same article. Throw in some quotes from Gunther and just let this thing implode already.
Posts: 104,292

11-05-2012, 10:18 AM	#89
Chief_For_Life58 Veteran Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: KC Casino cash: $9925938	any defensive lineman taken with the first 5 picks is a waste of value. QB, LT, CB, PASSRUSHERS, maybe safetys maybe tight ends. Anything else top 10 is a waste. You can just plug in all the rest of average bullshit players that get drafted every year. Atleast take a chance on a guy who would extremely impact your team with your first pick if he were to turn into a beast. Id rather take the chance then have glenn dorsey and tyson jackson. We coulda picked those guys in the 7th round.
Posts: 3,859